If we go by what's coming out of Hawks mouths...

[AHF]

Quote:

---

I think we have another disagreement here..

---

Yep. We won't scare away a single team from making a play for Al. The guy is an unrestricted FA that is going around telling every city he visits how great it would be to play for the hometown team. He could take the first 5 year, 60M contract thrown on the table without us getting anything. We don't hold all the cards which is the reason teams need to believe we could outbid them for Al.

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...We don't hold all the cards which is the reason teams need to believe we could outbid them for Al.

---

That makes sense...

[Diesel]

It's not a bidding process though.

If Al likes what a team offers, he can just take it. Period.

It can be the Knicks offering the MLE.

So there's no benefit to us make believing that we really want Al if we don't. Moreover, Al will know by the first day of FAcy weather we want him or not... so we're not fooling him either.

All in all, there's no need for us to lie about our intentions becuase it doesn't do anything to improve our position. IN fact, if we're not honest, what it really does is piss AL off?

Think about it.

BK has been in the press saying how much he wants to keep Al then when FAcy starts, BK offers up No offer...

[Nicholasp27]

either u are dumb or u are saying this just to start [censored]

obviously there is a very real benefit of us telling other teams that we will be trying to re-sign al

it increases P(snt) and it also raises their bids, which hurts them more than a lower bid if he signs outright with them, amongst other things

[Diesel]

If it was a choice between you and me, i'm the smartest man in the room nick.

You don't get it.

Teams will offer AL what they want to because he's an UFA.

THEY DONT HAVE to work out a deal with us UNLESS, they don't have capspace.

IF Chicago wants Al, why do they need to offer us anything?? Chicago has 20+ Million dollars to spend this offseason.

There are no restrictions on AL.

So how does us saying we really want to resign Al help us?

It doesn't.

Do you think Chicago is blinking because of our empty threat?

IF they wanted to, they could make the offer of 5 yrs 50 million and watch and sign Al to it. The only question that remains is weather or not Al will negotiate with us...

Listen up Dummy. If our intentions were to get the best offer for Al, the best time to do it was at the deadline when we had full control. NOW, AL has fullcontrol. We have become a bystander. So us putting an empty statement out there is only for one person's benefit... Al. Those other teams will offer Al what they feel he is worth. And if Al feels like we're d----- him around, he doesn't have to negotiate with us at all...

So it doesn't help BK to give empty statements.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

THEY DONT HAVE to work out a deal with us UNLESS, they don't have capspace.

IF Chicago wants Al, why do they need to offer us anything?? Chicago has 20+ Million dollars to spend this offseason.

There are no restrictions on AL.

---

This flies in the face of everything Diesel was saying months ago. He said over and over that Al wouldn't sign outright with another team because he wanted the 6th year and higher raises. Now he acts like those things don't matter at all.

Typical Diesel, contradicting himself at every turn.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

It's not a bidding process though.

If Al likes what a team offers, he can just take it. Period.

It can be the Knicks offering the MLE.

---

This is the fundamental difference in our views.

I think it will be a bidding process - you seem to assume it isn't one.

If you assume that Al will not take the highest contract he can get from whatever team that offers it (i.e., it is not a bidding process) then there is no advantage or disadvantage to Atlanta saying it wants to keep Harrington.

However, if you assume Al is in it for the largest possible contract from whatever team that offers it (i.e., it is a bidding process) then there is an advantage to other teams believing the Hawks will outbid them or raise the price of poker higher than they want. If a team believes it is going to need the extra year Atlanta can offer, for example, then we can get value for him.

The circumstances are different with a RFA and an UFA, but this is a lot like Phoenix saying they would match JJ if we made the offer. If we believed Phoenix would not match then we would not have traded Diaw and two firsts. If other teeams believe the Hawks won't outbid them they will not give the Hawks anything for Al. If we believe that we won't get JJ without giving up something valuable even with a max offer, then we have no choice but to give up on JJ or trade with Phoenix. Likewise, if other teams believe that Atlanta may outbid them or may raise Al's contract higher than they want or if they want the longer contract we can give, there is value to them in doing a sign and trade.

You are assuming that Al Harrington may actually take someone's MLE if you don't think this is a bidding process. I think that despite the ability to take the Knicks' MLE there is no way in the world that Harrington does that because he wants the most money possible out of this contract. If I recall correctly, he has even said as much in the press. If it is a bidding process then Atlanta has leverage both in terms of the amount per year we can offer and (more significantly) the length of the contract we can offer.

(Moreover, if Al values those contract terms and the most money possible, it is in his best interest to work with us to do a sign and trade. If it is not a situation where he wants the max $$, then he doesn't have an incentive to work with us and we are probably screwed.)

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...this is a lot like Phoenix saying they would match JJ if we made the offer...

---

Exactly AHF...I can somewhat see Deisel's point but...since there is no penalty for lying, why not feign interest to try and induce a snt. It only makes sense.

[Nicholasp27]

Quote:

---

If it was a choice between you and me, i'm the smartest man in the room nick.

---

it's good for u to keep believing this; u might have a breakdown if u ever thought u weren't superior to everyone in every way

[Nicholasp27]

again, u still fail to pass basic logic

there is no way that bk's statements hurt us

however, in the off chance that we are all right in that al will go for most money and look to leverage us to get more years and money in an SNT, then the statement can only help

thus it's a good statement no matter if we will keep him or not

in fact, if we were gonna keep him, we may not want to say that so teams will try to lowball al and we can get him cheaper...knowing bk, him saying this means it's actually MORE likely we are gonna look to snt al than re-sign him

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...there is no way that bk's statements hurt us...

---

Even if Chicago simply takes Al...BK may be thinking that the more he makes it look like we're interested, the more the Bulls will offer, and therefore the more of their cap space they'll burn on one player.

I'm a little concerned about a "battle of wits" between our management and Chicago's management though...

[Diesel]

JJ was a rFA not a uFA.

JJ had to get Phoenix' permission to leave. Had JJ be uFA, do you think we would have given Phoenix anything?

[Diesel]

I agree that AL is very unlikely to take MLE. Let's face it.. This is Al's last major Contract and he will probably want a big pay day if Possible. I have said this from the beginning and this is the major thread that holds all of our hopes together (along with his realationship with BK)...

Where I disagree is when you say:

Quote:

---

The circumstances are different with a RFA and an UFA, but this is a lot like Phoenix saying they would match JJ if we made the offer.

---

No. The circumstance is the exact opposite of Phoenix.

IF JJ had been an uFA like Al, do you think we would have given Phoenix anything?? We would have just offered the 70 million dollars to JJ, watch him sign and we'd have 2 picks, Diaw, and JJ. The rFA is the only thing that allowed Phoenix to even be a player... because they could match.

What I'm saying here is that we have no power to match because this is not a bid. The only power we have is that we can offer a SNT... And that At AL's request not at our will....

So, like I said before.. We are a bystander in the matter until Al puts us into play.

That means that there's no need for us to lie about our hopes for Al. All it can really do is piss Al off if we don't get him to negotiate with us... For instance, BK has to be in Al's ear saying... Tell me any deal you get and I will match it. That's the only way it becomes a bidding process. That's BK's best offense...

What I believe will happen is that we will sign Al to a reasonable contract and look to trade him later. It goes into the JT playbook. BK wanted JT until he didn't want him anymore. The same may be true about Al. BK will keep Al until he can trade him for good value.

[Diesel]

This may be true. However, put yourself in Chicago's shoes.. Will you let Atlanta's GM set your price?

When FAcy start, Al belongs to nobody. He does have ties with Atl but that's it.

Whoever signs him first gets him...

[Lascar78]

Quote:

---

When FAcy start, Al belongs to nobody. He does have ties with Atl but that's it.

---

This is complete bull. When none of the teams with capspace want to pay up, we are the only team who can SNT him.

[Diesel]

Hey Nick.. come out of Nickworld for a moment and answer this.

You are an informed car buyer. You have researched the car thoroughly. You know everything there is to know about the car. You go to the dealership to buy the car, you see the exact car you want. There's another customer looking at the same car and you overhear him say... "I'm going to buy this car"...

NIck..

Do you run to the salesperson and proclaim " I want to buy this car at a value higher than what's on the sticker"?

If you do, we have to change your name from Nick to Mark!

[Diesel]

He does have ties to Atlanta... but that's it.

reread it Las.

However, he's an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT... Look it up.

[Diesel]

Danny Manning. = UFA...

[Lascar78]

wtf are you talking about?

This isn't buying a car. In negotiations, teams frequently propose a deal with a final number and then leave it up to the player to accept or refuse.

For instance if we are uninterested in Al, Chicago may offer him a 9 mil contract and see if he bites, and leave it at that. Now suppose they believe that we are interested in signing Al because of BK's comments, and they know that they can lose him any day. BK calls Paxson and tells him that we're about to offer Al 11 mil per year (and he believes us), but that if they want, we will instead SNT him to Chicago for Gordon with Al signed at 10 mil per year (if Al accepts - and given that Al can't get more with any other team without our help - he will).

Their choices are:

-call the bluff and leave their only offer at 9 mil (they would only do this if they think BK's lying)

-raise their offer to 11 mil per year to try to steal him (If they believe BK's desire to keep Al)

-accept the SNT and get Al at a reduced contract, assuming Al accepts(If they believe BK's desire to keep Al)

In such a scenario, obviously BK pretending to want Al pays off. We are not just some random team with money, we're the team who can SNT him

[Lascar78]

Quote:

---

However, he's an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT... Look it up.

---

So if you're saying we're just like any other team, you're saying any other team can sign and trade him too? You must be new to the NBA