If we go by what's coming out of Hawks mouths...

[exodus]

Am i the only one that sees Diesel completely contradicting himself?

Before the trade deadline Diesel was arguing over and over that the Hawks didn't have to worry about losing Al for nothing. He said that the Hawks had his Bird Rights and since the 6th year and bigger raises were so important there was very little chance Al would sign with a team under the cap without doing a SNT.

Now he is acting like Al's Bird Rights are totally irrelevant because that stance suits him at the moment.

[Lascar78]

Yeah I noticed that too, I wasn't going to bring it up, but it's evident.

That's nothing new.

It's Diesel we're talking about here.

He will pretend he can't understand the other side of whatever issue he's debating, even if he's previously supported the other side.

[Nicholasp27]

Quote:

---

Hey Nick.. come out of Nickworld for a moment and answer this.

You are an informed car buyer. You have researched the car thoroughly. You know everything there is to know about the car. You go to the dealership to buy the car, you see the exact car you want. There's another customer looking at the same car and you overhear him say... "I'm going to buy this car"...

NIck..

Do you run to the salesperson and proclaim " I want to buy this car at a value higher than what's on the sticker"?

If you do, we have to change your name from Nick to Mark!

---

HORRIBLE analogy

this does happen all the times with houses tho; and they DO get bid up 10s of thousands of dollars above list price because of it

with a car, there is another one at another dealership or on order (if not, then yes, u would pay over sticker)

there is only 1 al; and obviously teams outbid each other for fas all the time every summer, so this is just plain dumb

[CBAreject]

I like it when people make statements of intellectual superiority which contain grammatical errors.

He won't even know that he's made one in that quote you posted, though. Perhaps he should google subjunctive case.

[Buzzard]

Quote:

---

Am i the only one that sees Diesel completely contradicting himself?

Before the trade deadline Diesel was arguing over and over that the Hawks didn't have to worry about losing Al for nothing. He said that the Hawks had his Bird Rights and since the 6th year and bigger raises were so important there was very little chance Al would sign with a team under the cap without doing a SNT.

Now he is acting like Al's Bird Rights are totally irrelevant because that stance suits him at the moment.

---

Exodus,you are exactly right. Here is something I have learned over the last couple of years, Arguing with Diesel is pointless. He will be disagreeing with himself; and agreeing with you in just a few months. The man is great entertainment; as long as you do not take him seriously...

[Diesel]

You act as if Al is KOBE?

If we are about to throw Al 11 million dollars, don't you think Chicago will just MOVE ON to get Nene... OR Move on to get Peja?

Like I said in the analogy.. Informed buyer...

GMs know just about how much they will spend on a player.

Perfect example is the Dampiere situation. Damp's agent was trying to get us to spend the max on Damp. BK didn't bite.

Another example is JT's situation. JT and His Agent LIED about the deal that they were getting from Utah in hopes that we would give him a higher deal. BK didn't Jump and give Terry a big deal. BK let the Utah deal play out and found that it was only 22.5 million... JT's agent looked like a fool.

The reason why it was done this way is because Every GM should have a good idea of the true worth of a player. IF We tell chicago that we're going to give Al the top of his worth, they probably won't offer him any more than they were going to. IF he says that he has a better deal in Atlanta, I can see Paxson moving on to another FA...

Think about what you're saying...

You're saying that a team should let the player or another team dictate how much to spend. Foolishness like that hasn't happened since Babcock gave Koncak the biggest Contract of that time. And the Pistons Laughed!

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

As long as you do not take him seriously...

---

Are you really going about a message board taking people seriously?? Do you really think that people can read your comments with a straight face and know that you call yourself BUZZARD? Come on man, it's all entertainment! There's nobody serious here! The only thing that's serious on this board is our fan hood and I would put up the seriousness of my fan-hood versus anybody's on the board! And really, that's all I respect.

So you wonder why I ignore Exodus... Becuase during the season he stated that he was not a fan of the Hawks.

I can't respect that. There are other guys who run behind me like stalkers... You know Reject and the like and I don't ignore them... But I have absolutely NO respect to a guy who spends his time here and he's not a fan of the Hawks.

Read the Moniker. "The Essential Messageboard for Fans of the Atlanta Hawks".

I don't respect trolls like Exodus who is not a fan of the Hawks.

Now.. THAT'S as SERIOUS as it gets...

[Buzzard]

Quote:

---

Are you really going about a message board taking people seriously?? Do you really think that people can read your comments with a straight face and know that you call yourself BUZZARD? Come on man, it's all entertainment! There's nobody serious here! The only thing that's serious on this board is our fan hood and I would put up the seriousness of my fan-hood versus anybody's on the board! And really, that's all I respect.

---

We are on the same page here Diesel. If I really thought I had what it takes to run a NBA team, I would have applied for a job within the Hawks a long long time ago...

My nickname in JR High was Buzzard. That's why I picked it and no I do not take it seriously. If I did, probably would not use it

I really liked the cartoon also. My favorite was the poster with two buzzards or vultures sitting in a dead tree in the dessert...caption read something like "if we don't find something to eat soon (dead carcass), I am going to kill something"

Man I miss the seventies...

[exodus]

Quote:

---

So you wonder why I ignore Exodus... Becuase during the season he stated that he was not a fan of the Hawks.

---

Diesel just makes stuff up and then pretends it is fact. That is one more reason why he is an idiot, as if we needed any more.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Where I disagree is when you say:

Quote:

---

The circumstances are different with a RFA and an UFA, but this is a lot like Phoenix saying they would match JJ if we made the offer.

---

No. The circumstance is the exact opposite of Phoenix.

IF JJ had been an uFA like Al, do you think we would have given Phoenix anything?? We would have just offered the 70 million dollars to JJ, watch him sign and we'd have 2 picks, Diaw, and JJ. The rFA is the only thing that allowed Phoenix to even be a player... because they could match.

What I'm saying here is that we have no power to match because this is not a bid. The only power we have is that we can offer a SNT... And that At AL's request not at our will....

---

The situation is different with an UFA and a RFA but the principle is very similar. A RFA can get retained by a team no matter what. That is a clear difference. However, when we make a max offer to Phoenix there are two possibilities - they will match or they won't. If they will match, then they have leverage to force a S&T. If they won't match or can't match, they have no leverage and there will be no S&T. Phoenix made it clear they would match and so they had leverage to force a S&T.

With an UFA like Al, we can sign him to a longer and higher $$ contract than anyone else. If another team wants to make him an offer AND you assume he will take the highest/longest offer on the table then there are three possiblities: Atlanta won't bid against you at your maximum price, Atlanta will bid higher than you want to spend on Al, or Atlanta will bid higher than you could possibly bid. If you believe Atlanta will bid higher than you want to spend on Al then there is an incentive to keep Atlanta out of the bidding by doing a S&T. If you believe Atlanta will outbid your maximum offer and really want Al then you need to S&T.

This is very much like a negotiation for a house as someone else mentioned.

Quote:

---

You are an informed car buyer. You have researched the car thoroughly. You know everything there is to know about the car. You go to the dealership to buy the car, you see the exact car you want. There's another customer looking at the same car and you overhear him say... "I'm going to buy this car"...

Do you run to the salesperson and proclaim " I want to buy this car at a value higher than what's on the sticker"?

---

That is exactly how it works in the real world where you are dealing with a unique purchase. When you can't just go out and buy the same car somewhere else or elsewhere on the same lot even, it is a very different situation. Al is much more like a house on the real estate market. Both are unique and if you miss out on them then you won't find a perfect replacement and possibly won't find one that comes close. Where there are multiple interested in a house bidding frequently goes above the asking price.

In fact, my friend in the office next to me did exactly that when he purchased a home just a month ago. The house hit the market and there were several couples that were very hot on it. It was clear the house was going to go for more than the asking price. He made a time sensitive offer a little above the asking price and the buyer accepted. After he accepted, he realized he blew it - even though it was above asking price - because the other prospective buyers complained to him they would have paid more if he would have given them another chance to bid.

It is a similar scenario with the Hawks except they have the ability to offer more years and more $$ than anyone else which gives them leverage IF Al is in demand and IF Al wants the highest value contract.

I take it as a given that Al wants to cash in. If that is the case, then we will have bargaining power similar in nature to what Phoenix had last year because if teams believe we will outbid their maximum offer (whatever that is) then they have an incentive to deal with us. The only other choice is the same one the Hawks had last year with Phoenix - make your offer and realize that if the other team isn't bluffing that you aren't going to get the FA player (either because they match or outbid you - the mechanism is different and the RFA status gives the team significantly more power but the end result is the exact same).

[Diesel]

[exodus]

What a chump

[Diesel]

FANS OF the ATLANTA HAWKS...

When they make a Luesquawk.. I will tell you.

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

You act as if Al is KOBE?

If we are about to throw Al 11 million dollars, don't you think Chicago will just MOVE ON to get Nene... OR Move on to get Peja?...

---

Yeah Deisel...I think (as they say) there's the rub. AL is a fairly attractive FA but not drop dead gorgeous. If I were GM in Chi-town I'd just make an offer and gamble.

Why lose a guy like Ben G. if you don't have to.

[exodus]

Caught in a blatant lie and that's the best you can do?

[exodus]

Still waiting for that link where i said i wasn't a Hawks fan.

[Lascar78]

Diesel is wrong, so he switches to name calling and a subject change.

How ... expected

[Diesel]

Exactly.

I don't think we have a bidding war that's going to happen for Al because at the end of the day Al is still a tweener and another tweener can be sought out...

I mean, Tim Thomas is a FA...

D. Gooden is a FA....

Al is not the only girl at the dance... so there's no need to fight over him is probably what GMs are saying.