Ben Wallace vs Sheldon Williams

[DrReality]

Bens' senior season in college was Va. Union, wherever that is and his stats/recogninition include:

Named First Team Division II All-America after averaging 12.5 ppg and 10.5 rpg, 3.6 blocks as a senior at Virginia Union. He was not even drafted by an NBA team.

His first year he ave 1.1 pts and 1.7. rb.

second year: 3.1 4.8

third year 6 8

The past two years he's ave 7 and 10 points, no big dea.

However, his rebounds have been: 11 and 12 p/gm.

Ranks #4 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(11.3)

Ranks #10 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(1.78)

Ranks #9 in the NBA in Blocks Per Game(2.21)

Ranks #1 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per Game(3.7)

Ranks #6 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(7.6)

Ranks #7 in the NBA in Steals(146.0)

Ranks #5 in the NBA in Blocks(181.0)

Ranks #2 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.66)

Ranks #9 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(5.0)

Ranks #8 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(10.3) Ranks #5 in the NBA in Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(15.3)

Ranks #8 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(2.42) Ranks #7 in the NBA in Blocks Per 48 Minutes(3.01)

Sheldon on the other hand has:

Third player in NCAA history to record 1,500 points, 1,000 rebounds, 350 blocks and 150 steals (along with David Robinson and Pervis Ellison).

Finished as Duke’s career leader in blocked shots (422, 5th in ACC history), blocks per game (3.03, 6th), and rebounds (1,262; 6th).

Fifth all-time at Duke in career field-goal percentage (.572), and 12th in school history with 1,928 career points.

Accolades: ACC All-Freshman Honorable Mention (03), Second Team All-ACC (04), ACC All-Defensive Team (04), ACC All-Tournament Team (04), Honorable Mention All-American (04), Third Team All-American (05), ACC Defensive Player of the Year (05), First Team All-ACC (05), First Team ACC All-Tournament Team (05), ACC All-Defensive Team (05), National Defensive Player of the Year (05)

Is is fair to compare the two????

[jezmund]

Assuming Shelden Williams has the heart, I think they are very comparable. Can someone find Ben Wallace's combine measurables?

[exodus]

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Can someone find Ben Wallace's combine measurables?

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Even if the combine results were published Ben wouldn't be on there. It is doubtful he got invited to the combine.

[DrReality]

Can anyone name another undrafted player, ie Ben Wallace, who will command the kind of money he will get this summer?

[Spiral]

Not sure how much Big Ben will get, but Brad Miller wasn't drafted and he made 8.75 mil this year and will cap out at 12.25 in 2009/10.

[AHF]

Usually the guys who make it but go undrafted are more role players like Bruce Bowen, Marquis Daniels, etc.

[dalamchops]

i'll gurantee u that williams has nowhere the agility of ben wallace, who can guard all 5 positions.

[Guest Walter]

to the (perhaps) ONLY example of a good (although one dimensional) severely under-height modern day center is beyond me.

Don't risk a #5 pick on an EXCEPTION!!!

Do "Risk" a #5 pick on players that:

1)exemplify the RULE at their position and fill a need for your team,

2) are potential superstar players,

3) or are players that redefine their position.

Shelden is very far from any of these things.

[AHF]

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to the (perhaps) ONLY example of a good (although one dimensional) severely under-height modern day center is beyond me.

Don't risk a #5 pick on an EXCEPTION!!!

Do "Risk" a #5 pick on players that:

1)exemplify the RULE at their position and fill a need for your team,

2) are potential superstar players,

3) or are players that redefine their position.

Shelden is very far from any of these things.

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Is he really very far from exemplifying the rule at PF?

[Guest Walter]

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Is he really very far from exemplifying the rule at PF?

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1) Ben Wallace is not a Pf is he?

2) The only people who insist SW is a C are among those who insist JS is a Pf. You cannot draft SW and expect him to start without sitting MW. So, AHF, what do YOU do with MW if you draft SW (to play Pf of course)?

W

[ATLBob]

Walter, I'm short-listing this for "Walter's greatest post ever" recognition ... great stuff ...

[AHF]

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Is he really very far from exemplifying the rule at PF?

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1) Ben Wallace is not a Pf is he?

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Ben Wallace wasn't even discussed in your post. You were assessing only Shelden in there. Don't try to raise a red herring.

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2) The only people who insist SW is a C are among those who insist JS is a Pf. You cannot draft SW and expect him to start without sitting MW. So, AHF, what do YOU do with MW if you draft SW (to play Pf of course)?

W

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If I drafted SW, I would expect him to play minutes at both the PF and C positions; that Marvin and Josh Smith would play minutes at both forward positions and that Zaza would play all his minutes at C. I would split the 152 available minutes between those 4 players and Chills and give some scrub minutes to our other bench players.

If I didn't think Shelden could play any minutes at center (bearing in mind the other guys who have played minutes at center for playoff teams like Antoine Walker, Boris Diaw, etc.), I doubt I would take him. However, that doesn't really go to whether he is worth the #5 pick based on the criteria you cited.

Of course, I would always be willing to trade from our stregnth (forward) for a worthwhile deal. I would expect a high caliber young player for either Marvin or Josh Smith and a definite contributor for Chills.

[Guest Walter]

I'll bypass the nonsense at the start of your post.

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If I drafted SW, I would expect him to play minutes at both the PF and C positions; that Marvin and Josh Smith would play minutes at both forward positions and that Zaza would play all his minutes at C. I would split the 152 available minutes between those 4 players and Chills and give some scrub minutes to our other bench players.

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Not only will we play everyone out of their ideal position for at least half their minutes but we'll bench at least two of them.

Shelden shouldn't be playing center for any real length of time, particularly alongside a Sf. You scenario insists that when ZaZa's out, Shelden must play center in which case (I presume) JS must play Pf. That's BOTH INTERIOR PLAYERS OUT OF POSITION. This is not a good strategy. To reach for a Pf to play half his minutes at center in order to play other players out of position.

Aren't we trying to solve the problem of playing people out of position, not compound the problem?

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Of course, I would always be willing to trade from our stregnth (forward) for a worthwhile deal. I would expect a high caliber young player for either Marvin or Josh Smith and a definite contributor for Chills.

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That's all I'm asking. We have to be willing to listen for if not pursue offers with one of them. With a package of a resigned Al, a potential Sf like MW could get much in return.

W

[Diesel]

I see Shelden as a PF. I think his position would primarily be PF. I would sit MW and have him coming off the bench until he shows to be better than Smoove. I would rotate Sheldon and Este at the PF position to always have some size toughness up front.

Would I play Shelden at C? ON occassion. I would use the small lineup when the matchup helps us... But for the most part, I would play with a lineup of:

PG, JJ, JSmoove, Shelden, Zaza.

and move from there.

In this instance, nobody is playing out of position.

In this instance, we have good defense and offense on the floor together.

[uga2006]

Haha they are nowhere similar. Ben learned to outjump everyone with some of the quickest up's i've ever seen. He also kept his agility while becoming probably the strongest player in the league so he could guard both peremiter and post. Shelden is gonna be more like an Antonio Davis. Wallace and Shelden are diffrent in every way.

[jezmund]

Antonio Davis in his prime isn't a bad thing, is it?

[tmac13]

Sheldon game is nothing like Wallaces..If you want to compare Sheldon to an NBA allstar bigman I think the most valid comparison Moses Malone..Malone owned the boards, put his big wide body on guys in the paint as he played physical defense, and had a nifty assortment of post moves..Malone was listed at 6'10" but I have read he was barely 6'9" in shoes..

[uga2006]

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Antonio Davis in his prime isn't a bad thing, is it?

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No,only if it's the lone Toronto year for atleast 6 years.