Sheldon....The Atlanta Regional

[tmac13]

I have been on the fence with the whole Sheldon Williams thing..While I believe he will at least be a servicable player in the NBA certain things disturb me..

Sheldon plays a bruising low post type of game..In college you can be a 6'8" bruiser..In the pros 6'8" bangers get eaten alive by the 6'10 and 7ft bangers..Diaw and Big Ben have gotten by playing the 5 based on things Sheldon doesn't possess..Diaw out quicks the big guys and draws them outside to drive by..Big Ben simply is as strong and athletic as a man can be..He is just a beast..

Sheldon plays like Shaq, except 4 or 5 inches shorter..I just don't know his game at his size translates to the NBA..

If we plan on Sheldon spending alot of time at the 4, where he is probably better suited, then we have changed directions in regards to the so called BK philosophy..Because Sheldon won't be the BPA or the guy with the most potential at the 5th draft position..It also flies in the face of what we all have been sold by BK that Marvin and Smoove can handle the forward spots in some form as a duo..

At the Atlanta regional Sheldon was not the big man whose NBA potential was obvious..LSU had Ty Thomas and Big Baby..Thomas is an athletic monster..He has amazing hops..Big Baby is Sheldon-like with the addition of 50 pounds..He creates so much space you can't defend him..Aldridge looked like the prototypical new style NBA 5..Long and lean with good hops and a smooth post game..He looks like a NBA center..Even Pitsnoggle out of UWV has the great deep shot that most NBA bigs only dream about..He will be able to get his shot at will in the NBA because either a much smaller defender will be on him or the opposing bigman will not come so far out..He is also a better than advertised banger inside on defense..If he were from Russia and had the same exact qualities he would be a hotter prospect..

I just didn't see anything about Sheldons game that translates to the NBA 5 at his size..If we plan on using him at the 4 then how the hell do we ever develope Marvin and Smoove to their fullest potential?..

I know I will be blasted for saying this, but whichever player from the list that includes Bargnani, Aldridge, Morrison, Thomas, Gay, and Roy slips to 5th should be our choice unless we trade down..Those guys represent the philosophy we have been sold the past 3 years..BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE..Then BK will have to do his job and make trades to fill needs if we get someone that duplicates what we already have..

[Guest Walter]

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Sheldon plays a bruising low post type of game..In college you can be a 6'8" bruiser..In the pros 6'8" bangers get eaten alive by the 6'10 and 7ft bangers

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Very true.

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...Diaw and Big Ben have gotten by playing the 5 based on things Sheldon doesn't possess..Diaw out quicks the big guys and draws them outside to drive by..Big Ben simply is as strong and athletic as a man can be..He is just a beast...

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While Shelden is strong, he's not as athletic. Nothing at all like Diaw. Regardless, you don't reach for a player based upon someone becoming a height-challenged exception at a position.

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Sheldon plays like Shaq, except 4 or 5 inches shorter..I just don't know his game at his size translates to the NBA.

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Even if it does it's not a great game to translate.

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If we plan on Sheldon spending alot of time at the 4, where he is probably better suited, then we have changed directions in regards to the so called BK philosophy.

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We would have changed philosophies but remain stuck with the increasing positional redundancy problem he created. If ever there was a draft in which to suspend a philosophy it was last year with 3 franchise Pgs available. This is absolutely not the year and Shelden is absolutely not the player to suspend said philosophy for.

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Because Sheldon won't be the BPA or the guy with the most potential at the 5th draft position..It also flies in the face of what we all have been sold by BK that Marvin and Smoove can handle the forward spots in some form as a duo.

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I feel like BK is pulling a Bush. Linking Osama in the same sentence as Iraq, but providing no credible objective link. We all should know that Iraq's prior Sunni secular state had nothing to do with 9/11, but for some (Fox news listeners?) if you hear it enough you start to believe it, even after it's been repeatedly, objectively discredited.

Similarly, for whatever reason many believe that MW and JS are supposed to be a forward tandem at SF and Pf. I've never heard BK say such a thing. He calls everyone "basketball players", but he's never suggested that either are better suited where. Many here just WANT so badly to be able to use our mistaken draft pick to the fullest, we'll believe BK has said this and/or that it won't hurt to put others at least slightly out of position to accomodate their desires.

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At the Atlanta regional Sheldon was not the big man whose NBA potential was obvious..LSU had Ty Thomas and Big Baby..Thomas is an athletic monster..He has amazing hops..Big Baby is Sheldon-like with the addition of 50 pounds..He creates so much space you can't defend him..Aldridge looked like the prototypical new style NBA 5..Long and lean with good hops and a smooth post game..He looks like a NBA center..Even Pitsnoggle out of UWV has the great deep shot that most NBA bigs only dream about..He will be able to get his shot at will in the NBA because either a much smaller defender will be on him or the opposing bigman will not come so far out..He is also a better than advertised banger inside on defense..If he were from Russia and had the same exact qualities he would be a hotter prospect..

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Exactly! Shelden was lost in the tourney.

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I just didn't see anything about Sheldons game that translates to the NBA 5 at his size..If we plan on using him at the 4 then how the hell do we ever develope Marvin and Smoove to their fullest potential?.

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We don't. Back to trading the lesser of them, filling a hole without creating one.

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I know I will be blasted for saying this, but whichever player from the list that includes Bargnani, Aldridge, Morrison, Thomas, Gay, and Roy slips to 5th should be our choice unless we trade down..Those guys represent the philosophy we have been sold the past 3 years..BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE..Then BK will have to do his job and make trades to fill needs if we get someone that duplicates what we already have..

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That's at least the safe, obvious choice. I prefer moving up or trading down only under specific circumstances I've described prior. BK got us into this draft mess by selecting an unnecessary MW last year when 3 franchise Pgs were available and each arguably could be the BPA. This year to abandon that philosophy for an obviously lesser player and STILL not fill a position of greater need is inane.

W

[exodus]

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At the Atlanta regional Sheldon was not the big man whose NBA potential was obvious..LSU had Ty Thomas and Big Baby..Thomas is an athletic monster..He has amazing hops..Big Baby is Sheldon-like with the addition of 50 pounds..

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Shelden had 23 pts, 13 rebounds and 4 blocks that game. Nobody else on either team scored more than 14 pts.

If you want to argue against Shelden ( I am not crazy about picking him at 5 either) you may want to use some other examples. That one doesn't work.

[AHF]

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At the Atlanta regional Sheldon was not the big man whose NBA potential was obvious..LSU had Ty Thomas and Big Baby..Thomas is an athletic monster..He has amazing hops..Big Baby is Sheldon-like with the addition of 50 pounds..

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Shelden had 23 pts, 13 rebounds and 4 blocks that game. Nobody else on either team scored more than 14 pts.

If you want to argue against Shelden ( I am not crazy about picking him at 5 either) you may want to use some other examples. That one doesn't work.

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Agreed. In fact, Duke wins if they go to Shelden down the stretch instead of feeding All-American boy JJ Reddick.

[Diesel]

One of the things that has to be noted in basketball is that Basketball ALWAYS goes back to it's base. That base is the one that has evolved out of all of these gimmicks that teams try. In short, Power Forwards and Power Centers will be taking the league back over in the next 4 years. If you don't have one, you won't be able to contend.

Where's my proof?

Howard

Stoudamire

Bynum

Bosh

Darko

Bogut

Jefferson

Oden

Okafor

Noah

Swift

Petro

Hansbrough

McRoberts

Big Baby

Spitter

Smith

Hibbert

Hawes

Frye

Villanueva

Diogu

The league is in the process of reloading their bigs. PFs and Power Centers are going to be the catch of the day.

You guys thinking that the Suns are the way to go need to look at how the Suns are scrounging to get their big too.

[BusBoyIsBack]

I don't agree with this Diesel character often but he's right on the money. Sure SHelden Williams isn't as athletic as Tyrus Thomas but he's no stiff either. He had a higher vertical than Aldridge and ran faster than several big men in the draft. What really separates him from players like Aldridge and Thomas is his strength.

Funny how the original poster mentions Big Ben's strength. Guess what? Shelden Williams is pretty dang strong as well. LaMarcus Aldridge was a freaking weakling. Shelden Williams on the other hand is one of the strongest players in the draft. He puts on another 10 pounds of muscle and he's an Elton Brand clone as far as mass.

[KB21]

Out of all the players you just mentioned there, only two are legitimate, seven foot tall, power post players. Andrew Bynum, who is still very raw, and Greg Oden.

All of the others are considered hybrid power forward/center types. The first two names on your list are the models for the new style of NBA post players. Neither Dwight Howard nor Amare Stoudemire are 6'10", but they are super athletic and have great strength.

Chris Bosh? He's a hybrid. Andrew Bogut is a hybrid. Emeka Okafor is a hybrid and is the player I think Shelden Williams has a lot of similarities to.

That entire list shows exactly the direction the NBA is going. There are no more Shaquille O'Neals, Patrick Ewings, or Hakeem Olajuwons. You can probably consider Alonzo Mourning the first of the hybrid post players, because he's had a near hall of fame career as a 6'9" center.

[KB21]

The league does tend to go back to its base.

Remember the league that was dominated by these big men:

Bill Russell, 6'9", 215 lbs

Willis Reed, 6'9", 235 lbs

Bob McAdoo, 6'9", 210 lbs

Wes Unseld, 6'7", 245 lbs

Nate Thurmond, 6'11", 225 lbs

Walt Bellamy, 6'10", 235 lbs

Dave Cowens, 6'9", 230 lbs

You did a great job of proving the people who see the trend of going towards smaller post players right by saying that basketball always tends to go to its base. All of the players I listed above are Hall of Fame players.

[KB21]

A JJ Redick that was getting absolutely abused by the long armed defender, Collis Temple III.

[Eddielives]

Mann Walter, you are such a left-wing bed-wetter. I have to check myself sometimes from injecting my political views here when certain people, uh-hum, Diesel, start up politically charged discussions. I find I like people so much more(and vice versa) by just keeping the focus on b-ball. Pretty childish as well to take a shot like that the way you did when politics was nowhere in the picture.

And by the way, the 911 commission report, if you choose to look at if from a "fair and balanced" point of view (like that insanely successful station that makes you so mad everytime you look at the ratings and makes the other totally unbiased stations look more and more pathetic), will give you your proof that you need to show the connection between Sadaam and Al-Qaeda. But, it's not like I expect you to accept the truth...you're a LIBERAL!!! Facts would only get in the way of your agenda.

[AHF]

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A JJ Redick that was getting absolutely abused by the long armed defender, Collis Temple III.

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I hate Redick and agree he will be limited in the NBA by his defense but do have to note that the defense was set up so Temple had help from the rest of the team. It was set up to shut Redick down and worked to perfection.

[tmac13]

I didn't mention anything about anyones performance..I was talking about the different players strengths trannsfering to the NBA game..

[TexasPete]

Of course Diesel is a raging liberal. All of his crazy arguments go up in flames the minute that logic enters the discussion. Logic is to liberals...as water is to fire. One extinguishes the other...

[AHF]

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I didn't mention anything about anyones performance..I was talking about the different players strengths trannsfering to the NBA game..

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The fact that Williams showed up better than any other NBA prospect in the regional made a pretty good case for his NBA potential.

[AHF]

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Of course Diesel is a raging liberal. All of his crazy arguments go up in flames the minute that logic enters the discussion. Logic is to liberals...as water is to fire. One extinguishes the other...

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Chillz eliminated politics from the board (with a few rare exceptions) about 2 years ago. (That reminder goes for whoever made the Bush comment earlier today.)

[TexasPete]

Sorry, Ahf, college performance doesn't always transfer to the league. Shelden is the perfect example of a guy who uses brawn to accomplish his objectives in the college game. The NBA rejects players without sufficient athleticism and offensive game. Shelden can't just overpower NBA players like he did at Duke. I could list great college players that couldn't cut it in the NBA for hours. Frankly, with his type of game his bust factor is too large for my taste. He is will be an older rookie and he is NOT that athletic...he also doesn't have reliable low post moves. He is a pure power player. That is why teams ahead of us aren't interested in him even though they all have a need for defense and rebounding in the middle. The fact that we would take him without working him out or anyone else in the top 8 just speaks to organizational negligence. You guys can all celebrate your "good fortune" on draft night. I'll wait until January to tell you I told you so...it will be painfully obvious by then.

[AHF]

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Sorry, Ahf, college performance doesn't always transfer to the league. Shelden is the perfect example of a guy who uses brawn to accomplish his objectives in the college game. The NBA rejects players without sufficient athleticism and offensive game. Shelden can't just overpower NBA players like he did at Duke. I could list great college players that couldn't cut it in the NBA for hours. Frankly, with his type of game his bust factor is too large for my taste. He is will be an older rookie and he is NOT that athletic...he also doesn't have reliable low post moves. He is a pure power player. That is why teams ahead of us aren't interested in him even though they all have a need for defense and rebounding in the middle. The fact that we would take him without working him out or anyone else in the top 8 just speaks to organizational negligence. You guys can all celebrate your "good fortune" on draft night. I'll wait until January to tell you I told you so...it will be painfully obvious by then.

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I am praying for Aldridge. I am just not going to use the Atlanta regional games as a basis for that opinion because Williams looked better than Aldridge, Thomas, Big Baby or any other big man in that region, IMO.

[Yeti]

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The league does tend to go back to its base.

Remember the league that was dominated by these big men:

Bill Russell, 6'9", 215 lbs

Willis Reed, 6'9", 235 lbs

Bob McAdoo, 6'9", 210 lbs

Wes Unseld, 6'7", 245 lbs

Nate Thurmond, 6'11", 225 lbs

Walt Bellamy, 6'10", 235 lbs

Dave Cowens, 6'9", 230 lbs

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You are right, but somehow I just don't see Shelden belonging with that group. He really looks like he's reached his potential already. Just to show my age, I remember every one of those guys. Nate Thurmond was my favorite. Great team player, not after the glory for himself. I wonder what he wingspan was. It seemed like he could tie his shoes without bending over.

[Traceman]

Shelden, what is he going to do with the taller/stronger players in the NBA? Shelden was dominant against LSU even though he was basically going 1 on 2 against Thomas and Big Baby. Thomas couldn't come close to stopping him in the post and dneiter could Big Baby. I like Thomas but I think he will be another K-Mart at best and that is after he matures in a couple more seasons.

Honestly, I think this draft is a crapshoot. We could take any one of about 8 guys and I won't be upset. Personally, I like Aldridge (if his health checks out) or Roy best for us but honestly, I think Shelden will have more of an impact on our won lost total NEXT YEAR than anyone else in the draft.

[Seano]

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Shelden Williams is pretty dang strong as well.

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Shelden is a beast with a low center of gravity (no, his center of gravity does not reside in his massive forehead, though it might look as if it does) that makes him nearly impossible to move. He will not get pushed around in the NBA, that's one thing I would put money on.

Strength is strength, and Shelden's got it in spades. That part of his game will undoubtedly translate, because physically he is extremely powerful- certainly enough to play in the NBA.