Just how effective has Theo and Newble been?

[Guest]

We are currently giving up 99PPG.Where is the

defense?Or is that not taught by Lon?

[hds428]

Theo and Newble have been fine, great in fact. The problem as I see it, is that eventually the starters have to come off the floor. That's where things always get ugly and we go from 20 up to down by 5. No leadership or direction coming from the bench at all. We've see the scenario play itsself out over and over; the starters come out solid - the bench comes in and rolls over - the starters come back in trying to do too much individually and it goes down hill from there. Foul trouble, bad shots, bad concentration, no execution. These are signs of a team playing catchup and thats what the starters are having to do if they want a rest. The bench guys (especially the guards) need to get their [censored] together, cause right now, they may as well be playing for the other team if they're going to be another obstacle for the starters to overcome.

[chillzatl]

Nobody should or should have expected us to be a good defensive team. Could we become a good defensive team? yes. It's all about commitment and playing smart. But this team was built to score, not to stop the other team. Beyond Newble and Theo, we really have nobody who seems to take the concept of team defense, seriously.

We don't have many good man to man defenders, or players who want to be good defenders. But we don't have to have those to be a good defensive team. Look at dallas, a few years ago that team played ZERO defense, now they are a very good team. Their players didn't suddenly become great defenders. But they've obviously bought into the defensive scheme they were being taught. They rotate and step out on guys when needed, they play smart. We do none of those things.

I think Newble and Theo are doing their jobs though. To say otherwise is wack. Just watch the games. Theo disrupts everything in the paint when he's in the game. A team might challenge him early, I've seen many do it already this year. But after he blocks/alters a few shots, you don't see guys making many gutsy trips into the lane unless he's on the bench. Newble you can't question, he holds his own against a teams best scorer. He's going to lose some, naturally. But so far this year he's given 100% plus some solid offensive contributions.

It's been said many times man. Just be patient. We've already won 7 games. How many years has it been since we've had 7 wins at this point in a season? We ARE NOT going to be a perfect, smart, veteran team in our first season. But we can still win games, earn some fans and make the playoffs. Don't set your expectations so high. Look at all the other "top" teams that were in our exact position 3-5 years ago. Becoming a real, top team, takes time. Look at sacramento, Dallas, Boston, indiana, etc. It took them all time to become better, they were NOT this good just because they threw these players together. patience!!

[Guest]

Well we have won a lousy 2 games more than

at this point last year...nothing to brag about.

I ask because for some reason we give up nearly 50

points in the paint EVERY GAME.This wouldn't happen

with Ben Wallace in the middle.

Newble has been ineffective since the Laker game.He

has done nothing and guys like David Wesley have

scoring on him at will and Paul Pierce droped 36 points

on him.

A good part of it is coaching.All the great coaches have

a style and there team plays it.

Nellie-Offensive minded and you get that from his team

Lenny-Defense and you always get it from a Lenny club

Riley-See Lenny

Rick C-See Lenny, Riley,this guy is a mastermind and

anybody that says different is retard.

Rudy T-Rudy wants a postman surrounded by shooters and

he gets it to work.

Jim O'Brein-he has a style that wouldn't work for alot

of COACHES but he could turn alot of bad teams into good

ones.

Doc Rivers-I don't think he has hit his full capabilites as

a coach yet because he's not had a big man worth a [censored].

He would have the Hawks at 10 wins right now atleast.

[beav]

You must be joking about Newble!.... I'd maybe rate him the hawks best player all around so far this year...

we had the celtics broadcast team on directv for the celtics games and tommy heinsohn was absolutely stunned by how newble played... he asked "who is this guy" at one point...

[Guest]

36 points given up.Besides Barkley also gave

Hanoo props for being a great player.lol

That's broadcasters.

[chillzatl]

leave it to you to focus on one game like it is the entire season. Ira plays great D almost every game and you focus on a game or two and cry that "he's not getting it done". Thats just pathetic man.

I mean Paul Pierce sucks. WTF is ira doing? Paul Pierce has never scored 30 on anyone, especially good defenders?!?! Our entire team got torched by them. When nobody else can guard their man, you expect Ira alone to lock down Paul Pierce? yeah, you really know basketball.

Your posts are a big cliche. You could take one of your posts from two years ago and if it wasn't for the crying being directed towards different players, we wouldn't know that you didn't make the post this week.

You need to start posting like someone who understands the NBA and stop ignoring the the way things are simply because it's the Hawks we are talking about.

[Diesel]

The Bench is not to blame.

Really the players are not to blame.

It's the coaching.

In today's NBA, you don't need many strong one on one defenders to have a good defensive team. That's been a very big misconception. We have 2 guys in Theo and Ira who are on the floor simply because they are very good defenders.

The best defensive teams playing right now:

1. San Antonio

2. Indy

3. Dallas

4. Detroit

5. Phoenix

6. NJ

7. Houston

Of these 7, only Duncan, Deke, Wallace, Oneal, and Ming are guys who are defensive players (allstar 1 on 1). However, a team like Dallas, Phoenix, and even Indy get on on the basis of GOOD TEAM Defense. That's what we need. We need coaching that showcases our TEAM Defense.

[Gray Mule]

Who is the defensive coach for the Hawks? In today's

specialazation, do we have different assistant coaches

who are responsible for different aspects of the game?

We know that pro football does. Phillips is the coach

whose responsibility is defense. Another coach is

responsible for special teams. He is "Their" coach.

I have heard the announcers comment on the work that

'Nique was working with the offensive game with some

of the players.

Do we have a coach for the defense? If so, which one ?

If not, why not? I know that the head coach is the

one ultimately responsible for the entire game just

as the Falcon's head coach is in football.

[hds428]

Nope. Watch the games, the starters play decent defense. Theo and Ira initiate the team defense, and there's none of that from the bench. How do you explain blowing 20 point leads? Lon does'nt coach the bench any differently than he does the starters. What's different is the execution and leadership or lack of. The bench guys all play one on one offense and defense, there's no hint of team play.

[Diesel]

The defense shouldn't be built around the strengths or weaknesses of the players defense... It should be built around the Team playing defense together. All that means is a coach that emphasizes rotation and positioning. Watch Duke play. During Coach K's tenure... He may have had 2-3 good one on one defenders. However, Duke's defense is always superb because he preaches a team defense. Even when you have flawed players like Wojo and Langdon, the system has always made them look good. Now back to the pros. With the advent of Zone defenses... Coaches can coach a "SYSTEM" instead of relying on players. When you rely on players then YES, you will come to a point when you don't have good enough defenders on the floor. However, Lon came from the college ranks. He already knows how to train a zone defense. The fact that we don't have one (when we can certainly use it) shows that Lon is failing. EvEN if the Zone was reserved for certain stretches of the game when Theo is out... It would still help.

However, we can sit here and blame the players... However, our roster might not change (and shouldn't have to). Our coaching needs to do it's best to meet our teams needs.

[hds428]

The coach can only do so much from the sidelines though, at some point the players have to execute a gameplan on the floor, be it offensively or defensively. Like I said, the starters play fine defensively, there's the occasional lapse, but that goes to the guys on the floor. You can change the coaching staff from top to bottom and it won't make a lick of difference if the guys on the floor are incapable of carrying out a gameplan. The coach can preach team play until he's blue in the face, but its all for naught if the guys go out on the floor and play one on one. The starters are the guys building 20 point leads, not the guys blowing the leads. To watch the team play and then assign blame to the coach is saying that Lon pretty much coaches the bench more poorly than the starters. That does'nt make much sense, if you think about it. Why would he coach the starters to succeed and then coach the bench to failure? Why would he tell the starters to play team ball and then send the bench out to play one on one knowing that it's failed time and time again? If the players are executing Lon's gameplan to the letter, and it really is the fault of coaching and not the players, then Lon must be telling the bench guys to go out and play lackidasical one on one iso, knowing fully well that it wont work. How much sense does that make??? Or does it make more sense that there's no leadership on the bench, there's noone capable of carrying out Lon's gameplan, and seeing that, guys like Dion and Hendu decide to take it upon themselves to keep the team afloat while the starters get a breath? Lon has even began subbing the starters so that one of the big three are on the floor with the second unit, and it helps not one bit. What good is having GRob or Reef on the floor if junkmail will only bring the ball to halfcourt and give it to him wether he's triple teamed or wide open in the post or on the wing? There's a difference between passing to make the offense go, and passing to just play hot potato, and I highly doubt that Lon tells Davis to go out and play hot potato or pass to the right every time up the court, yet that's exactly what happens. How can that possibly be Lon's gameplan? You would'nt succeed in church league with that gameplan, much less in Div I college ball.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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he coach can only do so much from the sidelines though, at some point the players have to execute a gameplan on the floor, be it offensively or defensively.

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There is no proof that there is a gameplan.

You say that the starters look good. Well, there are 2 all defensive stars playing with the starters. However, that doesn't mean that there is a gameplan. The way that players blow past Terry tells me that there's no gameplan. The same as with our offense. We have 3 20 plus scorers but on any given night, they can be shut down. That suggests NO GAME Plan. The same with defense. I believe that the reason we flounder so is because we go out there with a sandlot plan. Maybe 2 simple things on the books and from there we create as we go. That's offensive and defensive. However, if we want to win, we need somebody who is able to build offenses and defenses around the strength and weaknesses of our players. I don't think Lon does that. That's why you have Ham and Grob handling the ball. That's why you have SAR shooting outside shots. That's why defensively we are very lacking when Theo is gone.

It's not that the players can't execute the gameplan. It's that there is no gameplan to begin with.

[hds428]

Well then our starters must be godlike players to go out and build 20 point halftime leads with absoloutely NO gameplan, and JT must really be a phenom to make the offense work as smoothly as he does on the fly. Come on man, Lon has his flaws, and may indeed need to go, but you don't have as much success on the college level and get called up to the pros by being a complete fraud. Grob handling the ball and Reef taking outside shots are individual decisions that happen on the floor. That outside shot of Reef's spreads the D and gets him better looks in the post, he hits alot of those shots, so yeah, I could see that in the gameplan, if GRob had been with the team for more than a few months, he might know when to make those passes or not to make them at all. Lon might have Pitino Syndrome and not know how to motivate millionaires, but he's not a brainless fraud. Firing Lon won't be the magic bullet you make it out to be, there are chemistry and personnel problems that need to work themselves out on the floor before we have a summary sacking of the head coach. Look at Memphis, Chicago, NY, Denver, Portland, they all changed coaches and none have had significant effect. In fact, from what I've seen, coaching change only seems to prolong the gelling process. We have a starting lineup that have been learning to play with two new all stars, and an underachieving bench with no identity. Why complicate all that by forcing them to also develop chemistry and trust with a new coach?

[beav]

well heinsohn did happen to be a coach and he did happen to win 2 championship rings so I might take his opinion somewhat seriously...

call me crazy!

[Diesel]

First off, these 20 point leads are being built on WHO?

Secondly, with 3 players capable of putting up 20+ everytime out, why shouldn't we be able to build a 20 point lead. Even the mighty Lakers don't have that luxury.

Here's a bet.

Bring in Phil Jackson and Tex Winters (this past summer) and this team that is floundering now... Will not lose a game after Jan. We have very good talent. Very good depth. The problem is the coaching.

We are like the 91 Philadelphia Eagles (I guess it was 91) we have very good players on offense and a Buddy Ryan defense. But offensively we have horrid coaching. Our good players are going out there and just making up stuff. Because we have Cunningham, Byers, and a load of recievers.. it works against some defenses.. .But when a well coach defense comes along, all our flaws are shown. Well the same thing happens to us. We look really good against the Bulls and even an ailing Toronto. However, when a Healthy well coached Boston team comes to town or when we play a well coached Hornets team... All our flaws are evident. Most of them being... We have bad coaching.

[hds428]

In comes junkmail, out goes the lead, it's undeniable. No JT, no leadership from the playmaking position. It doesn't matter even with Reef or Dogg on the floor with him. No setup, no execution, no cohesion, just bring it up and pass to the right, go down by 7.

[Guest]

When JT and Email are both on the floor, we look a lot better, but subsequently lose the extra D that Ira brings. Too bad. Email's actually impressed me a little bit this year when he hasn't been the pg but rather on the floor with JT....

[Guest]

That's because Email is a SG and so is Matt

Maloney.These guys could hit some shots at

the SG position.Neither should really be playing

PG at all.

[Guest Walter]

In reply to:

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"The defense shouldn't be built around the strengths or weaknesses of the players defense... It should be built around the Team playing defense together."

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First, you are creating a delimna (a false one) by suggesting that a coach/team/whatever does one or the other. Truth is you coach to "bu9ild around" both your player's strengths and within an overall team defensive system. DUH!?!

Second, when you have two extremely good defenders with near awesome defensive capabilities in Theo and Ira you d@mn well better focus on their individual strengths as defenders! What are ya gonna do? Have Theo always FRONT HIS MAN because of some system that calls for it? [censored] no! Keep Theo between the opposition and the goal and take advantage of his incredible shot blocking ability and intimidation factor.

...

Our bench defense is poor because we have players who are historically not good at it, because they are not committed to it and/or because they lack the defensive talent. However, the season is young and the team is learning itself. Our defense still is alot better than last year's, regardless.

W