Harrington SNT - Good or Bad

[Vol4ever]

I guess the main thing I see in the posts and rumors is the Hawks may just get cash and a future 1st round pick.

I think if that is the case it is a loss for the Hawks. Why? Because we are in the 3rd year of rebuilding this team. MW is a much better player and Sheldon will be a asset after the first of the year. We need a veteran post player like Foster or Magloire. If we do not acquire one of these players we will struggle once again at the defensive end of the court.

We need a player or players back in this deal. Cash doesn't help at this point UNLESS this franchise does not want to spent the money to get better.

[swolehawk2]

Everything you said is correct.

[Diesel]

I think it would be better to acquire somebody that can help us in our development. For the most part, we are out of the acquisition of picks phase.

[vdunkndunk]

Getting a pick in a deep draft, when we won't have a pick otherwise, is not that bad...especially since under this scenario we're not taking on any bad salary.

And of course, that pick might help us acquire veteran help in a trade, or the cap space we're not using this summer might help us acquire a vet next summer in free agency.

So if that's the case I could definitely think of worse scenarios, even though just a pick isn't all that exciting.

[tmac13]

I think it will be a bad summer if all we end up getting is Speedy and a 1st round pick with all this caproom and AL as assets..Many people thought this was the summer for BK to shape the team into something special. What we have done so far doesn't come close..

Im going to sound negative but here a few realities..

We only won 26 games last year with our only real injury being to Salim..Charlotte won the same amount of games with half their team hurt..Whats going to happen next season if like most teams we lose a starter for an extended period of time?..

We are all depending on the assumption that a combination of Smoove, Marvin, and Sheldon can take up the slack of losing AL's 19 and 7 a game..What if they aren't ready?..Most of the games we won last year were games that BOTH JJ and AL were in the 20's in scoring..I simply don't know if any of our 3 young forwards individually or collectively can make up for AL's production as easily as we think.

Once again, as we have in every offseason since BK came here we are waiting and waiting while players are signing elsewhere..We DESPERATELY need a reboounding and defensive minded big..Why didn't we pursue Butler or Ellison?..They both signed very cheap contracts with San Antonio..Larry Brown loved Jackie Butler, said he was better than Curry and we didn't even try..

I am seeing people say we will probably just hold our caproom till next year, which is a great free agent year, we ALWAYS say that..Then every year most of the good players sign extentions with their current teams or demand unreasonable contracts so we always have unused capspace for that big trade that never happens...We are always looking to next season..

I am not down on everything BK is doing, I like our young talent, but looking at our division as of today, we are still last and we are still in the same holding pattern we have been in for 3 years..

[Diesel]

The pick doesn't help us in the near 3 years. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to get a pick... only that we'd fair better getting some ready talent now.

[Diesel]

Negative or not, you're right.

When I look at how much Stronger, the east is right now, I'm fearful.

Charlotte, Orlando, and Boston are three teams that didn't make the playoffs who are just as young as us, as much potential as us... and probably much better than us.

Chicago, Milwaukee, and Washington are three teams that made the playoffs and will probably be in a better situation this season.

The only playoff team that may be moving out is Indy.

Then there's us.

We're younger and exciting, but we just lost our only consistent post scorer. Like it or not, this may be our only time where we can make a bold move.

If we shop for a pick, we're basically putting up the flag for one more year.

[Vol4ever]

Quote:

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I think it will be a bad summer if all we end up getting is Speedy and a 1st round pick with all this caproom and AL as assets..Many people thought this was the summer for BK to shape the team into something special. What we have done so far doesn't come close..

Im going to sound negative but here a few realities..

We only won 26 games last year with our only real injury being to Salim..Charlotte won the same amount of games with half their team hurt..Whats going to happen next season if like most teams we lose a starter for an extended period of time?..

We are all depending on the assumption that a combination of Smoove, Marvin, and Sheldon can take up the slack of losing AL's 19 and 7 a game..What if they aren't ready?..Most of the games we won last year were games that BOTH JJ and AL were in the 20's in scoring..I simply don't know if any of our 3 young forwards individually or collectively can make up for AL's production as easily as we think.

Once again, as we have in every offseason since BK came here we are waiting and waiting while players are signing elsewhere..We DESPERATELY need a reboounding and defensive minded big..Why didn't we pursue Butler or Ellison?..They both signed very cheap contracts with San Antonio..Larry Brown loved Jackie Butler, said he was better than Curry and we didn't even try..

I am seeing people say we will probably just hold our caproom till next year, which is a great free agent year, we ALWAYS say that..Then every year most of the good players sign extentions with their current teams or demand unreasonable contracts so we always have unused capspace for that big trade that never happens...We are always looking to next season..

I am not down on everything BK is doing, I like our young talent, but looking at our division as of today, we are still last and we are still in the same holding pattern we have been in for 3 years..

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I agree 100%!

[Nicholasp27]

i'm ok with cash+indy unprotected 2007 pick

we'll replace the pick from the jj trade and not use up our cap space so we can be players next summer, when we will know our future better and how players fit and what we need

what we needed this offseason:

pg - check; got speedy

defense - check; got speedy at pg, lost al and got shelden

now, to what degree those will help our weaknesses, we don't know; that's why it's ok to run with this and then next summer we'll know more about our weaknesses and can shore them up then

if we do cash+07, then basically we traded a late 1st (diaw) who was leaving us anyway and jt (to toine) and sjax (to al) for jj

i'd rather have jj than jt+sjax

i'd rather have smoove than theo/sar

so we will have traded our old core for the jj/smoove combo, which may become devestating (look at post-allstar last year for a glimpse)

however, i'd be MUCH happier if we could get harrison/mags/foster back with the pick and cash

but if we don't, i'm happy...at least we didn't get murphy or ai back for al...i'd rather let al walk than take back those guys

[Guest Walter]

Jackie Butler would have been my choice but BK already got "burned" by Butler (we invited him to camp and he showed late?) and BK is not the forgive an dforget type. Regardless, if we don't get Harrison in this deal (I'm not that high on Foster) or bringing over Anderson (with all the money we'll save through a deal with Indy that doesn't bring over another player we can pay to bring Anderson over) our lack of pursuit for Elson and Butler will definately have hurt us.

Quote:

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I think it will be a bad summer if all we end up getting is Speedy and a 1st round pick with all this caproom and AL as assets..Many people thought this was the summer for BK to shape the team into something special. What we have done so far doesn't come close...

...I am not down on everything BK is doing, I like our young talent, but looking at our division as of today, we are still last and we are still in the same holding pattern we have been in for 3 years..

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That is exactly where I stand. This was an offseason to make bold moves and all but finish fashioning the team. Currently next year we have no draft pick (and likely won't have a high one even if we trade), salaries rise each year, and the following year our young players begin their FAcy. This was the best offseason to make something big happen. We'll see.

W

[Dejay]

I'm in complete agreement, Tmac. After all the anticipation of what the Hawks will get for Harrington to improve the team NOW, a pick is the best they can come up with? You're telling me that Elson and Butler couldn't help Pachulia and Williams out in the frontcourt?

While its great to see Marvin step up and win a summer league MVP, its not all that impressive to me; Dion Glover also won one of those and you know how little I thought of his lack of game. Now can Marvin parlay that and become a force on the team rather than the Sam Bowie (injuries notwithstanding) of last year's draft?

I'm also down on all of this capspace they will have for next offseason. Capspace means nothing unless a player of worth signs up (and nope, Anthony Grundy and Ivano Newbill doesn't count) and a press conference is taking place with said player in your uniform. Most of the good players just sign extentions with their current teams or use the Hawks (JJ being the lone exception) as leverage to get the $$$ they want from the team they really want to play with. Afterwards, they are left with 2nd-3rd tier free agents who arrive here with a calendar in hand counting down the days until they can leave. The only way they can change this perception is by winning more games and last I checked, I've never seen capspace go for 20/9 on a Wednesday night.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

[Dejay]

Another post I agree with. If a pick, which will be in the mid to late teens at best, is all they get for Harrington, we all had better take a 'get ready' pill for some more losing this season. The East is getting better by the day and the Hawks are STILL finding new and creative ways to fall further behind. We all agreed for the most part that this was the summer where BK made the moves necessary to get the team to where it needs to be, which is a team that can be at least mentioned in the playoff chase. He might not get a second chance if Belkin wins the appeal next year and goes 'Sterling' on the payroll by putting a moratorium on acquiring free agents. You think the Joshes would want to stick around after that? I doubt it and deep down, I know many others do if it goes down like this.

[drzachary]

I'd agree with you, tmac, but with one big caveat... Looking at teams in the division on paper doesn't ever consider the biggest factor (IMO): chemistry.

For a good converse proof of this, look at the predictions for the Big Dog/Shareef/Theo/JT team!

[Johnnybravo4]

Honestly though after this off season, how many other free agents do we need? Assuming that we get a servicable center, we'd be two deep and under 30 at every position. Unless we are trading for an A.I. type of player there is no reason to search for more free agents at least for the short-term.

[Lascar78]

yes and no.

One major factor is that, being the youngest team in the league, without adding any FA's, we would be expected to improve the most naturally. Marvin should actually be ready for this season, Smith should be that much more impressive.

And while Speedy and Shelden are not major additions on paper, they adress our needs directly.

Also, we were a 26 win team, but you have to factor in the 2-16 start due to JJ coming to a new team in a new role, the death of one of our players etc... If you factor that out, we were really a low 30s win team.

Put that all together, and I expect decent things this year, maybe 38 wins. The offseason was somewhat disappointing compared to what could have been, but I think we will be significantly improved. Some part of me was afraid that BK wouldn't come through on a PG, but he came through, and quick.

[gsuteke]

w/o changing a thing.

i think BK will be getting raped by only getting a first.

that being said if you remove Harrington from this team I truly believe they will give up 5 ppg less next season.

the offense will become more fluid if nothing else so with Marvin/Smoove/Childress getting Al's minutes i see it as a wash offensively.

that 5 ppg will easily get us 5 more wins. remember:

Al Harrington = addition by subtraction

[Guest Walter]

Loosing Al Harrington, despite some people's believe that it is addition by subtraction, will hurt us particularly because it will leave us without a legit post up option.

The FA Pg options weren't great and Speedy may be alright among them but he doesn't excite me. SW was a need only based pick, but he plays the Pf position benching either MW or JS, so I don't see how he fits our needs perfectly. Most importantly, we still lack a superstar or legit (meaning more likely than not)potential superstar IMO. This team remains significantly flawed and while it may improve on last year I do not see very good long term prospects without some major change.

W

[Lascar78]

zaza, josh smith, shelden, marvin, and harrisson or foster if we get one are all post options or potential ones. Not to mention Joe posts up pretty effectively and Speedy will be able to get to the rim. None of them is as polished as Al but as a whole they can compensate for his production. Smith and Marvin weren't on the perimeter because they were scared of the paint, they were on the perimeter because Zaza and Al played huge minutes and dominated the paint. When Smith finally got a chance to go in the paint late in the year he looked great. I'm not too worried about this.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

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Loosing Al Harrington, despite some people's believe that it is addition by subtraction, will hurt us particularly because it will leave us without a legit post up option.

The FA Pg options weren't great and Speedy may be alright among them but he doesn't excite me. SW was a need only based pick, but he plays the Pf position benching either MW or JS, so I don't see how he fits our needs perfectly. Most importantly, we still lack a superstar or legit (meaning more likely than not)potential superstar IMO. This team remains significantly flawed and while it may improve on last year I do not see very good long term prospects without some major change.

W

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MW spent much of the summer league with his back to the basket. the majority of those free throws didn't come off fouls on the break.

Al was never an acheiver here in Atlanta, simply a compiler. he rode us for 2 years to get a big contract. if someone doesn't see that then i think they either have selective vision or they are blind.

[Peoriabird]

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Al was never an acheiver here in Atlanta, simply a compiler. he rode us for 2 years to get a big contract. if someone doesn't see that then i think they either have selective vision or they are blind.

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There is a reason why teams didn't sign him outright or bust down our door to trade for him! I'm pretty sure most gm's see what we see. A no defense playing, turn-over prone volume shooter who is not that good. Now why do we hear that other Gms are interested in our young core? Because they project them to be better than AL! Make sense doesn't it? It is so amazing to me to hear people dogging Al all year long and then when it looks like he will be traded for a bag of chips, these same people call for BK's head!