Floyd Landis tests positive!!??

[Plastic Man]

just saw it on espn news. not good. probably tested by the envious french.

[frosgrim]

That is bad news. I am a cyclist and this just sucks. Of course the tests that are being used to test for IPO are screwy. There is a good reason why MLB doesn't use that test, it just isn't reliable or accurate. I hope its just a case of a misread test or Floyd's natural baseline being high.

[KB21]

Well, you knew it wouldn't be long before those damn French pansies tested Landis.

[AHF]

If he cheated he deserves to go down. I'll reserve judgment until he goes through the process, though.

At least cycling has meaningful testing unlike MLB, etc.

[frosgrim]

The test is NOT meaningful. It tests a hypothetical baseline testosternone level v. an athelete's during competition. If the athelete tests more than a single standard deviation out of the norm, then its called positive. The test has never held up to court challenges because there isn't enough information about how testosternone levels fluctuate. I know that those levels can rise significantly during stress or exercise (well at least in monkeys and chimps- which I worked with for several years). I don't see how the cycling agency can rely on such a bogus test.

Second, Floyd's been taking a thyroid med, which could have resulted in a false positive as well.

[chillzatl]

he had "unusually high" testosterone levels. What htey don't tell you is what unusually high actually is. This is nothing more than the french trying to bring someone down becuase they can't win at their own race.

The normal levels are 1:1, in elite athletes are as high as 3:1 or higher. Just this year they changed their accepted level from 6:1 to 4:1. For all we know he could have been 4.2:1. Again, it's just the french looking to smear someone. Funny how this info just happened to leak out.

[DJlaysitup]

The USA has such a lousy reputation with the rest of the would now (sans Israel)...that I wouldn't be surprised if they just fixed the test to nail the guy.

[Popeye]

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The USA has such a lousy reputation with the rest of the would now (sans Israel)...that I wouldn't be surprised if they just fixed the test to nail the guy.

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I am not sure, but when i watched the end of that race he looked like he just started the race he was going really fast and the other bikers were all tired and could barely pedal. I told my friend that this guy could be on steroids.

Looks like he is.

[AHF]

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The USA has such a lousy reputation with the rest of the would now (sans Israel)...that I wouldn't be surprised if they just fixed the test to nail the guy.

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I am not sure, but when i watched the end of that race he looked like he just started the race he was going really fast and the other bikers were all tired and could barely pedal. I told my friend that this guy could be on steroids.

Looks like he is.

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The test is not at all indicative of him being on steroids. This is not a Ben Johnson situation.

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On the effectiveness of the test, thanks for the information. I do think, however, that the international drug testing is much more meaningful than the MLB testing. The fact that they can go back and test old samples after a test develops for something like HGH is a good thing, IMO. Drug abusers are always going to be ahead of the curve. In baseball, you don't even have to be subtle about it.

Hopefully Landis didn't do anything wrong and he will be exonerated. If he isn't much different than his baseline level that will surely be the case. If he did cheat like many of the other top riders in recent years, then he deserves to lose the title.

[chillzatl]

I disagree, breakdown and recovery is a part of endurance racing. It's what happens and what you expect. And what you said about "the other bikers" is simply wrong. Yes, some of the guys were tired, as you would expect. Many of them looked no different and no more tired than Landis.

I think the guy is being set up, pure and simple. Landis wasn't given a random test. He KNEW that he was going to be tested. It makes no sense that he would load up on testosterone (not steriods) when he knew that he would be tested immediately after he finished the stage. The entire thing smells of a scam. The French have been trying to shame the American riders since Lance started destroying them and I see no reason that they would stop just because he's gone. In fact I think they would be more eager to do it than ever. Being that they've been swept for 8 years straight by american riders.

I won't say that he's innocent. it just seems fishy. Anyone who passes absolute judgement on this because of leaked results should be ashamed.

[Popeye]

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I disagree, breakdown and recovery is a part of endurance racing. It's what happens and what you expect. And what you said about "the other bikers" is simply wrong. Yes, some of the guys were tired, as you would expect. Many of them looked no different and no more tired than Landis.

I think the guy is being set up, pure and simple. Landis wasn't given a random test. He KNEW that he was going to be tested. It makes no sense that he would load up on testosterone (not steriods) when he knew that he would be tested immediately after he finished the stage. The entire thing smells of a scam. The French have been trying to shame the American riders since Lance started destroying them and I see no reason that they would stop just because he's gone. In fact I think they would be more eager to do it than ever. Being that they've been swept for 8 years straight by american riders.

I won't say that he's innocent. it just seems fishy. Anyone who passes absolute judgement on this because of leaked results should be ashamed.

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You maybe right cause French have their Mafia involved in everything and sports too.

It could be setup and maybe not who knows.

But i do think that LAnce Amstrong used steroids.

[chillzatl]

haha the french mafia... that really inspires fear...

and you "really" think Lance used steriods? What exactly do you ahve to base this on other than the hundreds of tests that he NEVER failed? Sounds like you have your opinion and you don't care to accept the facts involved.

[Popeye]

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haha the french mafia... that really inspires fear...

and you "really" think Lance used steriods? What exactly do you ahve to base this on other than the hundreds of tests that he NEVER failed? Sounds like you have your opinion and you don't care to accept the facts involved.

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Did Barry Bonds ever fail a test??

[Popeye]

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haha the french mafia... that really inspires fear...

and you "really" think Lance used steriods? What exactly do you ahve to base this on other than the hundreds of tests that he NEVER failed? Sounds like you have your opinion and you don't care to accept the facts involved.

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Did Barry Bonds ever fail a test??

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Italian and French mafia are involved in sports, look what happen to best Italian soccer teams Juventus and Milan.

They were chetaing, buying games because their owner is a Mafia man.

[chillzatl]

No. But he admitted to taking "things" that were found to be performance enhancing and were, at the time, undetectable.

[chillzatl]

I have no doubt that they are involved. My comment was meant to be an insult at the entire concept of "french mafia". It sounds about as mean as a poodle humping a pillow.

[AHF]

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haha the french mafia... that really inspires fear...

and you "really" think Lance used steriods? What exactly do you ahve to base this on other than the hundreds of tests that he NEVER failed? Sounds like you have your opinion and you don't care to accept the facts involved.

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Did Barry Bonds ever fail a test??

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Bonds admitted using steroids under oath and was never tested until last year when he got tons of advance warning about the type of test and when the test would be done. His trainer was taped on the phone saying he had obtained masking agents to cover up Bonds' use of steroids in testing.

I guess that is the same as Lance being subject to random testing for more than a decade and never failing a test while denying use of steroids throughout.

[drzachary]

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The French have been trying to shame the American riders since Lance started destroying them and I see no reason that they would stop just because he's gone. In fact I think they would be more eager to do it than ever. Being that they've been swept for 8 years straight by american riders.

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The French haven't won since Bernard Hinault back in '85, I seriously doubt they are mad at us for not winning. They haven't had a decent rider in a while and they know this. You never heard of the French going after Miguel Indurain when he won 5 consecutive years.

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Agreed. All this French-bashing has got to stop!

[frosgrim]

This test result is getting more and more screwy.

The test checks for ratios between e-Testosterone and Testosterone. Landis came back with an 11:1 ratio. Now that looks bad, but Landis' e levels were extremely low, so the ratio will be very high. His normal testosterone levels were actually normal. The theory is that the cortozone he receives for his degenerating hip has messed up his endocrine system.

In regards to Floyd's performance, most cyclists would say that it's very normal to bonk one day and have a super ride the next. I am an avid cyclist, so I know this to be true. Today I am actually suffering mightaly from a morning bonk (dehydration mostly). Second, the big riders from the past would bonk one day and recover the next to yo-yo through a three week ride. This is evidence that the race was actually clean. Third, all the telementry data points to Floyd staying within his normal day output. The rest of the peleton (the pack) had a bad day. If you watched the attack Floyd put in, he stung the peleton on the first climb and that earned him the race.

In all, I believe Floyd to be clean. It would make no sense for him to dope up the day before a race.

[chillzatl]

Something that I heard today is that some doctor(s) for some of the US sports organizations have come out and said that if he had boosted his testosterone, he would have had to do it over a period of time for it to do anything. Doing it one night before wouldn't offer ANY benefits and if he had been doing it over a period of time, it would have showed up well before stage 17.