Top fifteen most driven Athletes!

[Diesel]

These are the fifteen who would reach DOWN and get what it was that they needed beyond all odds... Also called MOST Competitive.

15. Deion Sanders

14. Kobe

13. Kevin Garnett

10. Chris Carter

10. Ray Lewis

10. Emmit Smith

9. Allen Iverson

8. Muhammad Ali

7. Bill Russell

6. Walter Payton

5. Larry Bird

4. Lance Armstrong

3. Cal Ripken Jr.

2. Jerry Rice

1. Micheal Jordan

Actually, I think you can have this category strickly for basketball... but for now, let's examine all sports. I encourage you to come up with your own top 15...

[Guest]

Well Willis Reed has to be on the list. Karl Malone definitely does, I think he played the whole 97-98 season with a broken thumb, refusing to have surgery until after the finals.

I don't think Deion should be on the list. He just gave up in Washington and in Baltimore he kept coming up with hamstring injuries, I have to doubt those injuries.

You can't really argue with any of the players on the list besides Deion, they all are very competative. But I think there are some omissions. Hard to think of a list right now, but just this image has to be on the list:

I forget, but I think he had something like 2 TDs and 200+ receiving yards that game. Whatever it was, I think that exemplifies this list.

[chillzatl]

Hard one to judge because "driven" applies to so many different levels.

You have guys like Ali and Jesse Owens and Jackie Robinson. Guys who were driven on an entirely different level and by different things than other athletes.

Then you have guys like Lance Armstrong who are driven at a level that no basketball or football player is likely even physically capable of in the first place, much less mentally tough enough to sustain.

I don't think it's fair or even possible to compare guys across sports. You have guys like Jordan and Bird and even Isiah Thomas who were competitors at a level that was elite, even amond the elite in their sports. But you can't compare that to being driven like Ali, Owens or even Lance.

But from a pure sports level, factoring only the phsyical aspects and the focus it takes to suceed and maintain that elite level, I would put Lance Armstrong head and shoulders above EVERYONE on the list. His energy output in one Tour would surpass that of what athletes in other sports do over the course of several seasons. To be able to maintain the physical portion of that along with the mental focus and determination it takes to not quite is amazing.

[Diesel]

Yeah, but then... why not mention Barry Bonds. HR King?? What'd he hit.. 73? Breaking Roger M's ' record by 10!

My point is this.. The doping scandels still loom over cycling...Just as much as it does over baseball. Over Lance just as much as over Barry.

Therefore it's hard to say Barry when you got guys like Jerry Rice who will run over his mama to catch a pass.

I left off Jim Brown (simply because he cut his career short) but if you ever watched a Jim Brown game, the defense knew he was getting the ball and were powerless. I left off OJ because of the controversey.. but if you judge OJ the player... come on.. the guy wanted it every play.

I guess it is hard to go from Sport to sport.. Because where do you put Gretsky?

[Guest]

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I guess it is hard to go from Sport to sport.. Because where do you put Gretsky?

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I agree. But for hockey I would actually put Gordie Howe ahead of The Great One for most driven. He played in I think 4 or 5 decades...thats pretty damn driven.

[chillzatl]

I just can't draw the comparison because 1. Lance has been getting tested since day one and has never failed anything. 2. Barry has admitted to it. He just never failed a test. One is suspected by the world and admitted he did it (under oath) so that he could avoid more public scrutiny. The other was only accused by magazine that porported to have "leaked" results. In turn he opened himself to all scrutiny and was vindicated. The only thing driven about Bonds is the needle being driven into his ass.

Guys like JB and OJ deserve mention in their respective sports, without question. Hell, even LT, as crazy as he is, deserves mention in football.

[shock]

How about Dale Earnhardt? Or the entire 1980 USA hockey team? Tiger Woods? Mariano Rivera?

[Diesel]

You got to have Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair on the list.

[Diesel]

I loved Kelen Winslow and all the chargers.. I was a charger fan... I liked Jim Zorn too...

But everybody sees that picture and say.. Driven..

I don't.

I think Driven is the preparation put in before you play the game. Jerry Rice is high on my list because his offseason workouts kills people. The same with Chris Carter. Winslow was good but he had a lot of natural ability. Jerry Rice on the other hand was a slow guy (by WR standards)... However, he worked his way to the top of his profession...

I said Deion because in his prime, He would play a baseball game and a football game, same day and would play well. He might not have had the sweat that other guys had, but I think he had the desire.

If it were only football, there would be a place for Jim Brown, OJ, and Darryl Green.

If it were just Basketball, Isiah, Magic, and maybe Barkley would be on the list.

Jordan is at the top, because there is still no other athlete that I have seen that is as competitive and as successful as he. He's competitive to a fault in my eyes. If you look at his mother and father, he has no business being 6'6". His athletic makeup shouldn't be what it is... But when you compare him to everybody else, I don't think anybody ever wanted it more than Jordan. That means many times Jordan had to change the way he play... From Dunk, to post up, to fall away, to Jump Shooting. He's played Sick, he's played stressed, he's played from behind and he showed the world how to win.

I need to find a place for Tiger.. because he did add strength to the game..

[shock]

and lets not leave out.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnbc1fBBpzQ

[AHF]

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My point is this.. The doping scandels still loom over cycling...Just as much as it does over baseball. Over Lance just as much as over Barry.

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I agree doping hangs heavy over cycling but how do you equate Barry and Lance? Barry completely changed his body type in his late 30s when baseball didn't test (and still doesn't test for one drug he obviously has done - hgh); his close confidant was convicted for steroids violations and was taped on the phone talking about how he used masking agents for Barry; and Barry admitted "unknowingly" using steroids.

In contrast, Lance has the same body type he would have with or without doping; he has been extensively tested for many years and never failed a test during his great run; he doesn't have the associates; and he has always denied doping.

Saying that it is an issue for both of them is fine for me but you know 100% that Bonds has used performance enhancing drugs (he admitted it) and with Lance there is just a grey area due primarily to the corrupt nature of his sport.

[chillzatl]

I mean c'mon, we're blurring the lines between being driven and and being successful. Barkley was very successful, but he is admittedly, not very driven. He has said that if he wanted it more, he probably could have gotten that championship. The same goes for many of these other names I see poppping up. People are confusing success, determination and god given talent with what it is to be driven at a level beyond the norm. Even when that norm is othe elite athletes.

Jordan would be the defacto answer for most people and deservedly so. That's why he's the GOAT. He was an unmatched combination of ability, desire and drive.

[Diesel]

The main problem is that a cyclist can dope and get away with it just as easily. Doping doesn't change the body type. Not to mention how many times it has been alledged that Armstrong was using. Maybe it would have been easier if Lance's head would have swole up but Blood doping doesn't have that effect. Here's some info.

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EPO is a hormone naturally produced by the kidneys when oxygen supply is low. Thus natural EPO concentrations in the blood increase when a cyclist is anemic, has been training at altitude, or has been exposed to pollution or second-hand cigarette smoke. EPO acts as a signal for the bone marrow to increase the rate at which red blood cells are made and released into the circulation (this can be measured as the reticulocyte count). The increase in number of red blood cells leads to an increased oxygen supply to the tissues throughout the body. This oxygen rich blood then acts as a signal to the kidneys to stop producing EPO keeping the hematocrit within the normal range. It is documented that the endurance process is improved in athletes with an increased red blood cell level, and thus an increased oxygen carrying capacity. This occurs whether the red blood cells are increased via transfusion, or artificially with r-EPO. Improvements in performance are greatest about three weeks after r-EPO injection.

EPO is rapidly cleared from the blood stream, meaning that EPO use three or four days before a urine screen may go undetected. Athletes and trainers have learned to manipulate EPO regimens to dodge drug tests. In response, alternative detection methods have been focused on abnormally high hematocrit levels. In Geneva in 1997, the UCI implemented an upper level of normal for hematocrit of 50%, and 2.4 for the reticulocyte count. Those cyclists testing higher than these levels are then subjected to the more accurate French urine test, which is an indirect test that looks for specific biomechanical properties of synthetic EPO using sophisticated laboratory techniques (gel electrophoresis).

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Now, I'm asking myself, is anybody clean? I want to believe the stars are doing it on their own talent and skills, but it's so hard. Even though I almost worship the ground Lance Armstrong walks on, how did he so easily--and repeatedly--whip all the icons of the sport without doping? Lance is definitely among the top five cyclists ever to sit on a bicycle, and probably the best ever, but now, it appears as if many of his main rivals were using drugs or blood doping (or both) to gain an unfair advantage. Could he consistently beat them without doing it himself?

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Recent allegations published in a French paper claim that urine taken in 1999 during the Tour de France tested positive for the performance enhancing drug erythropoietin (EPO). Furthermore they have linked these blood vials as being from the 1999 Tour de France winner, Lance Armstrong.

In 1999 tests for EPO were not available. However, athletes were tested for other performance enhancing drugs and many samples were taken. All athletes in the 1999 Tour de France were tested. The samples were identified by numbers only. However, the French paper says that it has paperwork linking these specific specimens to Lance Armstrong, who went on to win the Tour de France a record seven times.

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For years there have been allegations, including from the authors of this book, concerning Armstrong and illegal use of performance enhancing drugs. In the past the Armstrong camp has chosen to basically ignore the allegations, which have never lead anywhere.

Some wonder if this isn’t a pathetic attempt to distract Armstrong from his focus on the yellow jersey in the 2004 Tour de France. Armstrong supporters say that even if it were, Armstrong can withstand this blow. After all, he’s a cancer survivor and one with an attitude.

Walsh and Ballester explain that their book does not contain proof, just circumstantial evidence. They believe that we can hear the information and make up our own minds. Some of their information comes from people who used to be close to Armstrong. Explaining the circumstances upon the departure of some of these people from the life of Lance Armstrong, revenge has to be given at least a thought.

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[Diesel]

No..

I said Barkley because the man is 6'5. I've been up close to Barkley. He's not that tall. He's really not that Girthy to a big man. However, you couldn't tell by the way he played that he was definitely determined. He was the round mound of rebound because he just wanted it more. Also.. didn't you notice the development of his game as he continued to play. From just being a banger to being a true PF who can score to being a finesse Pf?

You say, we're confusing determination with god given talent. Well, Barkley was 6'5. In his mind, he thinks that he didn't work hard enough.. but that's because he needs an excuse for not winning. The truth is that for a 6'5" (and probably shorter) he overcame lots of obstacles to become an elite. If Barkley were 6'9", he would have been the most dominant player in basketball.

Moreover, I doubt that there will every be another 6'5 player who was as successful the way that Barkley was successful. Also, Rodman will have a seat in the room too!

[chillzatl]

If i'm not mistaken the accusations against Lance only surfaced during his final two Tour victories. Prior to that he was celebrated by the french people and for the most part, still is.

[frosgrim]

Lance has been pursued since his first win by L'Equip a French sports tabloid. The stuff they have put out has been proven wrong time and time again.

Lance simply has never tested positive to anything. He is one of if not the most tested athelete in the world. The doping agency showed up at his house in Texas, his place in Spain, his hotel rooms. All at all hours of the day or night trying to catch him. With all the testing they have done you would think he would have one positive or suspecious sample, but he hasn't.

Winning seven TsdF is an amazing accomplishment. The training is brutal. It cost him his marriage and time with his kids. He rode a bike for six hours a day, constantly. I do an hour to two hours four or five times a week and that really cuts into my schedule, so to do it as much he did and still do all the other stuff with the cancer charities is amazing.

I don't think any other sport has people spending 4,000 to 6,000 calories a day for three weeks. Try biking for 2 hours, you'll spend around 2k and see how you oporate the rest of the day.

Hence, the top of my list:

1. Lance Armstrong

2. Eddie Merx (another cyclist- considered the greatest of all time)

2. Jordan (tie with Merx)

4. Larry Bird

5. Roger Clemens

5. Jerry Rice (tie)

That is good enough for now. My head is still clogged from a concusion I gave myself cycling on Monday.

[DrReality]

Pete Rose . . . . Charley Hustle

Willis Reed. Played on a broken leg.

[DrReality]

Bob Lily and the guys who played in the Ice Bowl. He lost some fingers.