SI Article: Howtofix the Hawks.

[Guest Walter]

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So we have some depth at a position, thats not a reason to trade Chill. Would the Celtics have traded Havlicek? We need depth. No-one plays all game, every game.

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...or some other SF.

1) He will not remain with the team past his rookie contract should he have no chance to start in his future.

2) We have more pressing needs than a 3rd string Sf and trading him (with something else) MIGHT acquire a quality center prospect.

No one is arguing we need to trade away depth for nothing. We need to trade it for something that helps and is more valuable to this team. Particularly something that won't want to leave ASAP because we have him so deeply benched he can't see the coach.

W

[KB21]

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I am asking a serious question. WHAT, WHEN, HOW, and WHY should the Hawk's make a particular move? You either don't make an assertion of opinion out of fear that BK won't following it, make it claiming "he is (or isn't) a BK-type player", or you make an opinion and change it 180 degrees when BK does differently. So, I'm giving you an open opportunity to say exactly what the Hawks should and shouldn't do. Specific player names preferable. Whom do we trade and not trade, for whom, when, why, how? How does this team become a title contender and by when. Be as specific as you can. I will not respond to your "plan" for this team, only any part said about the above. I will leave you to your own thoughts hopefully.

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The only time the Hawks should make a major trade that requires them to take on long term salary is when and ONLY WHEN it makes sense long term for them to do it. The Joe Johnson deal made sense. Making a deal for Troy Murphy or any other dead weight contract that was offered for Al Harrington doesn't make sense.

[Guest Walter]

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Let's get into Walter's fantasy world and pretend that Phoenix had no intention of matching Joe Johnson's deal. In fact, in this fantasy world, there are actually no restricted free agents.

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They would have matched a deal ensuring $20 million over 1-year to JJ, most of it UP FRONT, for no more than a 1-year rental (Amare's deal kicked in after that) while they decided whom to trade JJ to?!? They'd have to pay JJ $20 million regardless of when they TRIED to trade him because much of the money was up front. MOREOVER, jj would have been a trade restriction and conditional plauyer, meaning he would be very hard to trade soon and even harder to trade without taking back extra salary for him, something Pheonix could absolutely not afford to do. I'm not saying it's not possible but you can't believe everything you hear from GMs about signing a player who publically stated he wanted to leave for Atlanta or else you'd be sending 10, 1st rd picks for every RFA.

Who else would have provided cap relief and given them a player or two they wanted for JJ? I can't see us making a worse deal for JJ after he was resigned than we did for him before.

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Also, in la la land, there are no salary cap ramifications for taking on bad contracts, one player is the difference between winning 35 games and winning 55 games

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Why does the salary cap so restrict us from making any and all possible moves, but you believe somehow Pheonix's flurt with the luxury tax would have done nothing to deter them from resigning a disgruntled JJ to a $20 starting year, $75 million contract?

I've never argue for bad contracts longer than 1-2 years (with after 2 years being when JS can be resigned) and only with a potentially dominant center prospect in return.

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[Guest Walter]

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I am asking a serious question. WHAT, WHEN, HOW, and WHY should the Hawk's make a particular move? You either don't make an assertion of opinion out of fear that BK won't following it, make it claiming "he is (or isn't) a BK-type player", or you make an opinion and change it 180 degrees when BK does differently. So, I'm giving you an open opportunity to say exactly what the Hawks should and shouldn't do. Specific player names preferable. Whom do we trade and not trade, for whom, when, why, how? How does this team become a title contender and by when. Be as specific as you can. I will not respond to your "plan" for this team, only any part said about the above. I will leave you to your own thoughts hopefully.

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The only time the Hawks should make a major trade that requires them to take on long term salary is when and ONLY WHEN it makes sense long term for them to do it. The Joe Johnson deal made sense. Making a deal for Troy Murphy or any other dead weight contract that was offered for Al Harrington doesn't make sense.

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Specific, lightweight. I asked for specifics. Please structure an offseason for us that makes us a contender. Lay off the Murphy nonsense and theoretical, philosophical BS about "cap flexibility" and "long term sense". Just write up a plan for shaping and designing our roster. I'm not even asking for rumored deals. Feel free to reach into the past a little. Propose a reasonable trade you would have done that was rumored (or not) that wasn't done. Anything, honestly, but this meaningless drivel about the virtue of cap flexibility (which you have ridiculously argued should only be used to sign players rather than trade for players). Cap space isn't the virgin Mary. Its not sacred. Anyhow, what's your idea of a good plan. I WANT SPECIFICS! Spell it out for us. Line by line. Whom do we trade. Whom do we keep. For what, whom, when, why?

Got it yet?

W

[bird_dirt]

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1) He will not remain with the team past his rookie contract should he have no chance to start in his future.

2) We have more pressing needs than a 3rd string Sf and trading him (with something else) MIGHT acquire a quality center prospect.

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i would be less inclined to trade chillz. unless we get an amazing two-way center that would allow us to keep smoove and marvin on the floor together at the same time like walter has been begging for, then i would be more inclined to trade js or mw (probably js) than chillz.

i know that i may sound crazy saying that, however....our biggest problem is the redundancey of marvin and smoove both wanting/needing to play at small forward. unless js develops more of a power forward's game, then one of them will be on the bench more than they should, and only one of them can be a starter.

one of chillz strengths, that the other two don't have so much, is his versatility. i also don't believe that he ever will be a serious starter for any team for any length of time in this league. if the hawks can't work out a way for both our star small forwards to be on the floor together, then either one or both of them will be unhappy at not getting enough starts/playing time, or we trade one of them for something that we really need (like a major upgrade at center or point). smoove or marvin would net us something much larger and benificial than anything childress would ever get us. he is a perfect 6th man (which is what he will primarily ever be imo), getting really good minutes splitting time at forward and guard--why mess with that and lose it?

we could trade him, get another bench player, lose some depth, and have two unfulfilling small forwards, or we trade one high-potential small forward for a great starting 1 or 5, still have a great, high-potential 3, plus jj at 2, plus a great 6th man to rotate around in myriad of different sets. blast me if you must--and i know some must, but i see this as a battle of between mw and js, and either they adapt their roles, or only one, and ONLY one, comes out on top.

[oken]

wow this post is so acrimonious...and accusing...hahahaha...

you are like someone stressing out over their kid...when you know you have no control over them...

and you just keep yelling at them and screaming hoping that they will change...

and then you realize that nothing you say will help or change anything...

but its fun to read hahaha...

i mean we appreciate your passion for the hawks...

but being such a hater doesn't solve anything...

in my opinion honestly lets just wait to see how they do...

and if we need to tweak we'll tweak!

hindsight is 20/20...

and seriously bitching about the past and spilt milk...

doesnt help...

i swear some people do not know how to move on haha...

just... let go!...and if you hate the hawks so much...or love to hate on them so much...

or have so many suggestions...

i think the hawks really should hire you...

or when belkin takes over or if he does...

he should hire you...

hell...they should hire you now...

seriously...

just chill and give them a chance...

they might surprise you...

how little faith you have...be a little more optimistic here...

if your outlook on life was as bleak and critical of your outlook on the hawks...

then you must be one bitter dude indeed...

and taking it out on a basketball forum...

hahahahaha...this is entertaining...

what do i suggest we do with the hawks?

stop suggesting...and just cheer them on regardless...

[DrReality]

Lascar,

Going back to the season ticket holders meeting you had and what you were told, how does it add up to what has actually taken place?

[Guest Walter]

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...what do i suggest we do with the hawks?...

...stop suggesting...and just cheer them on regardless...

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Like less of "...".

You are a "Newbie" so you have missed the blatant lies, flip/flops, and strawmen put forth by KB. Feel free to ask the board about examples or just hang around. New and old ones pop up regularly.

As far as your advice, I do. I still want to contend for a title and unfortunately my cheering them on hasn't been enough for 23 years. The entire basketball nation acknøwledges we don't have enøugh talent or the right pieces to contend as this team remotely is so my insight is in touch. It shouldn't take much to realize this for yourself. Is this negative? Hardly. Only by realizing it can we make it positive. Otherwise, "cheering", doing nothing when we need to do something becomes a negative.

Given you admit you have no other suggestions to offer. Thank you for your time.

W

[bird_dirt]

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Like less of "...".

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i'll ditto that. seriously oken, you've been watching too much anime. reading that last post made me feel like i was listening to some capcom video game character talking to me. nothing personal though.....hahahahah.

[oken]

23 years? thats longer than ive been alive!

but nice to see your dedication to the hawks.

but seriously, its not like we are just going to waltz onto gold and have people suddenly want to come play or us esp. when our whole ownership situation is pretty screwed up right now.

and a lot of players that you seem to want well they just aren't available. of course everyone wants a center like yao ming or shaq or dwight howard. a power foward like amare, bosh, or elton brand. a small forward like kirilenko, lebron...shooting guard like d. wade, kobe... pg like nash.

but if they are really that good, who wants to give them up.

so right now I see a lot of promise with J. Smith, M. Williams, JJ and whoever else plays with them. Teams take time to grow up and develop together, give them a chance...

I remember when UNC was really talented when raymond felton and sean may and rashad mccants entered as freshmen and everyone expected them to win everything and be so great, but it took them 2-3 years to come together (add a marvin williams) to win a national championship.

well i've been following the hawks for as long as I can remember, so that's got to be over 10 years now.

but I think we are improving.

not like we are going into a season starting kenny andersen or dion glover (sorry tech) or have a bench with n00bs like cal bowdler and hanno mottolla or ed gray or priest lauderdale.

so championship contention we're still a ways away, but I think if you let this core develop and maybe in 2 years add some superstar or maybe one of the kids turns into superstar add a center...A GOOD ONE somehow somewhere...

lets get rid of our whole team for KG and nash and shaq and AI...yeah... and play NBDL players next to them people like cal bowdler and hanno mottola.

teams need quality depth, and i think this season we have it. so give them a chance.

every team has its weaknesses, and i'm sure that every GM is looking for ways to improve their team. but think about what you have to invest into a player, and if they are really worth it and if we are that close to really contending. is the opportunity cost worth it for players we want...and even if it is worth it in our opinions, how are you sure the other teams are willing to give up that player for us?

i know you are suggesting all these different players, but seriously its all just a day dream fantasy to want other players on other teams most of the time.

what center is out there that is potentially a two way dominant center? they are rare! after watching the josh smith videos i think he could even spend some time at center if he bulked up a little bit (which apparently he has) so really,

wanting what we can't have doesnt help.

[bird_dirt]

HANNO! HANNO! HANNO! HANNO! we seriously need to bring him back.*

*just kidding--but seriously--just kidding (seriously).

[oken]

actually during the draft i wouldn't have minded if the hawks drafted foye/roy + saer sene because i think he would be a great defensive presence one day, but he has a steep learning curve and well its not like the hawks would be priviledged to have his full potential at their disposal during the rookie contract.

as for joel pryzbilla, well apparently he did something to piss someone off and its not going to work and its not going to work. so no more of joel who looks like he could play chewbacca.

bynum? if he was that good, how can he be stuck behind mihm and kwame brown? there are lots of centers or big men with potential riding the bench of teams around the NBA. you want dj mebenga from dallas?

why dont we go around picking up every 7 footer who has shown potential...(john edwards anyone?)

we can look back on the draft and say well if we got roy or foye then we could have traded chill and al for someone good like magloire or bynum or whoever. but honestly i never liked magloire. when he made the all star game that year, i said you gotta be kidding me.

i wonder if the hawks ever tried getting primoz brezec from the bobcats. i think he is a pretty decent player (around zaza level, a bit taller and probably a better scorer). but wanting a player and having them be available is two different things.

[oken]

i love the two dots over one of the Os in his last name.

but seriously that guy was one of the most scariest looking people i've ever seen in my life. he always looked like he was hungover or didn't get enough sleep.

[KB21]

Yeah.

You obviously don't remember all of the problems the Hawks had back in the mid-90s, when they didn't have the ability to sign that one player they really needed at the small forward position to push that team into the legitimate contender status. Of course, all of that was because of the bad contracts they had given out that were still effecting them.....i.e....Blair Rasmussen, Ken Norman, and Jon Koncak.

I stated exactly what I would do, and I'm not going to comment on fantasy deals that were never on the table. I will only comment on deals that were actually offered, and of those, the only one that may have been better than the Indiana deal was the proposed four team trade that the Clippers backed out of. The reason I would have done that is because Joe Smith's contract comes off the books after this season, and the Hawks were reportedly going to get two first round picks in that deal. Neither pick would have been as high as Indiana's pick, but anytime Billy Knight has draft picks, it's a great thing.

[Guest Walter]

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You obviously don't remember all of the problems the Hawks had back in the mid-90s, when they didn't have the ability to sign that one player they really needed at the small forward position to push that team into the legitimate contender status. Of course, all of that was because of the bad contracts they had given out that were still effecting them.....i.e....Blair Rasmussen, Ken Norman, and Jon Koncak.

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More strawman. There is certainly a middle ground between too much spending and too little and it's not just the luxury tax threshold and the minimum collective salary. We're not going to turn into the Knicks as you always warn us Mr. Boogeyman.

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I stated exactly what I would do, and I'm not going to comment on fantasy deals that were never on the table. I will only comment on deals that were actually offered, and of those, the only one that may have been better than the Indiana deal was the proposed four team trade that the Clippers backed out of. The reason I would have done that is because Joe Smith's contract comes off the books after this season, and the Hawks were reportedly going to get two first round picks in that deal. Neither pick would have been as high as Indiana's pick, but anytime Billy Knight has draft picks, it's a great thing.

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In otherwords, you are a coward with no credible thoughts of his own. You only consider rumored deals you don't like or that were legally impossible to be "credible". All the ones surrounding NeNe or Artest at the deadline, or even our reported offer for Bynum? Not real for you?

The more important point is I want you to tell us all whom you would go after and with what in the future. Who is it you think this team needs in FAcy or trade. What is your "plan"? I only included past rumored deals to allow you to begin at whatever point you would like. Who, what, when, why, how...does this team become contenders? That is your charge. I've even said I wouldn't respond to it if you would actually do it. WHAT are you afraid of. You would argue about who and what we needed and for what when Babcock was GM. Why won't you now?

[Guest Walter]

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actually during the draft i wouldn't have minded if the hawks drafted foye/roy + saer sene

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LOL

I even considered trading Childress for Sene (in addition to drafting Roy, of course). I really think he'd be a great prospect big man to lineup next to JS and MW at the 4 and 3 respectively. I like Childress alot but something's gotta give here. His value isn't going to go up the more we sink him on the bench (now also behind Speed, JJ, MW, and JS and Sene would immediately help us if only because he can block shots like crazy. A few years of seasoning and perhaps he's not 1-dimensional.

[Sothron]

The article is right about the first item. Everything after that is moot until the first item is settled. They are not going to spend the money to get a "superstar" until the ownership situation is settled. Period, end of story.

As for KB21/Walter, I do have to say that I can not recall one time where KB21 offered a specific player or plan of action for the Hawks. Although to be fair at this point there's almost no need to speculate since we won't be adding salary.

It is funny though to see how blatantly he contradicted himself in the past.

[DrReality]

Anyone ever find out what unpardonable sin that Ken Norman ever committed to be banished by Wilkins?

[TheDude]

I agree with all but bring in a star..i think we have possible stars on the team....but everything else was right on, especially the yellow uniforms.

[Sage11]

1. Let the owners continue to fight. If this team is ever to heal and become the contenders we desire, the owners must resolve their feud or we must find new owners.

2. Changing the uniforms is cosmetic only, there must be a culture change, a mentality change if we are to become winners.

3. Keep Woodson: I think he is a good coach for development of our young players, but he is not the man we need longterm. Granted he has had two empty positions (pg and center)to handicap him; nevertheless what I have seen of his coaching leaves something to be desired. He is a great asset to have on staff but I do not like him as a head coach.

4. Trade for a star- NOT..... I say stick with our young guns and ride them for all they are worth, trade them only when it is wise and feasable to do so. What we have been doing is giving good people away.