Did the Hawks give away the championship again?

[gsuteke]

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person...

So now... I'm full of Sh!t?

I don't think that anybody on this board will agree with you that we didn't overpay for JJ. I like JJ but really 70 million, Diaw, and 2 first rounders?

If you want to look at that Historically.

70 million dollars, JT, Diaw, and whatever our pick will be next draft.

You state:

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JT was and still is a tweener role player. he was and is not the type of player to build a team around. he looks good surrounded by all that talent in Dallas. a weak attempt at skewing the facts on your part.

Diaw was a pansy crybaby here and we all couldn't wait to ship him out of town. he is a product of Phx's system. if Billy would not have traded him he would be in Europe right now. a weak attempt at skewing the facts on your part.

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It seems to me like you're willing to blame the player for our inability to find a way to coach them. When Josh Childress is traded away for a pick and becomes an elite 2 gaurd, what will be the knock on him? Josh C was a guy who had a shot like a girl. Or if JSmoove is traded for a pick to "make room" for Marvin, what will be the knock on him? JSmoove had motivational problems!

Come on teke... use your brain.

No one player is going to be championship quality. However, you don't have to trade them for another shot at the draft. Like I have said previously, sometimes you take those players who are not superstar talent and you hold on to them and you build a team with them... NOT around them.

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Shareef has done nothing in the NBA. i don't think he was even part of a playoff team until he went to Sactown, to be a role player. another weak attempt at skewing the facts on your part.

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Shareef was an allstar, was a 20/10 player with us while he was in his prime. Now, he's not in his prime... You want to judge him on that?

The problem is that you know nothing about team building. You believe that getting the youngest dumbest player in the draft every year means something and getting rid of a player who might not be able to carry a team by himself but is productive is a good thing. There's only one person who is "full of sh!t" around here and it's you.

By your own admission, you believe that Dominique, Wilt, Karl Malone, John Stockton were "stat stuffers". I should have stopped the conversation right there because you were ignorant enough to believe that a championship ring is the only way to validate a player. So I will let you continue to go out and try to prove that Scott Williams and Luc Longley are better players than Malone, Stockton, Pistol Pete, and Charles Barkley... And I will also let you continue to talk bad about former hawks who have gone on to become very good players with other teams. And while we can not find those players in our coaching scheme... and we trade them, I will continue to listen to you blame the player... I just wonder what you will say when Al, JT, Diaw, and Rasheed all show up for the Allstar game this year? I guess you will continue to say how these guys sucked so much!!

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You are bringing up the "we overpaid for JJ" thread again? post regurgitation.

You are bringing up the "Woody couldn't coach Diaw" thread again? post regurgitation.

Who said anything about trading Childress or Smoove? Only you and Walter do that in your fantasy Hawksquawk world. post regurgitation.

I said Al was a stat stuffer. you threw Wilt and Nique out in a pathetic diversionary attempt. All I did was point out how many titles they had won, which was the supposed topic of this thread. Only after examing it closer does one see it is actually another regurgitated "Billy whine" from Diesel.

Diesel you have no originality. you regurgitate the same 8 to 10 ideas year round by substituting names and teams within the paragraphs.

You are wasting your time arguing with me. You cannot win because your motives are disingenuous. Spare everyone else the spamming and have a nice day!

[Diesel]

The only truth in your post is that I am wasting time arguing with you.

You refuse to put it all together.

Sure, there's some rehash.

However, doesn't that speak out that there's a problem. IF we always have a problem with coaching players and then trading them away for mediocre picks... doesn't that speak to a problem. How long will it be before you realize that this is no isolated incedent but instead, this is the norm. Take a look at BK's history. All he's every done is implode teams to try to "build through the draft". He's a one trick pony. That's all he's done here. Have we built a team yet? We have 6'9 players everywhere. We have a handful of mediocre picks to work with.

The truth is that we have neglected "building the team".... Unless you consider a team full of 6'9 guys championship material.

Back in 2001, we had a 33 win season. BK sold off every piece of the team and said that he can make us better. Have we even come back close to winning 33 games since he's been here???

[gsuteke]

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The only truth in your post is that I am wasting time arguing with you.

You refuse to put it all together.

Sure, there's some rehash.

However, doesn't that speak out that there's a problem. IF we always have a problem with coaching players and then trading them away for mediocre picks... doesn't that speak to a problem. How long will it be before you realize that this is no isolated incedent but instead, this is the norm. Take a look at BK's history. All he's every done is implode teams to try to "build through the draft". He's a one trick pony. That's all he's done here. Have we built a team yet? We have 6'9 players everywhere. We have a handful of mediocre picks to work with.

The truth is that we have neglected "building the team".... Unless you consider a team full of 6'9 guys championship material.

Back in 2001, we had a 33 win season. BK sold off every piece of the team and said that he can make us better. Have we even come back close to winning 33 games since he's been here???

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nice quip

if you think Billy should be fired then start a thread with reasons as to why he should be fired.

a. don't disguise it

b. don't spread it out over 8 to 10 threads

[Diesel]

I think that's your issue. I don't think that BK should be fired and that's not my rant. I think that BK should stop giving away players for picks. We are past that stage in the building process. I think he needs to either move forward with a group of players and if he cannot then he should be fired...

I think that BK has done a credible job of getting talent. Sure, I disagree with some of his picks. Sure, I disagree with some of the players he let go. Sure, I disagree with the price he paid for some of our players... HOWEVER... I think more than anything else, there's a time to stock up with picks.. but there's a time to get a team together... Us continuing to trade players for PICKS to me says that all these drafts that we have gone through were just wastes of time. It also suggests to me that we are more willing to start over than to work with the talent we have. Either way, it's not a productive move.

[DJlaysitup]

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...I think that BK has done a credible job of getting talent. Sure, I disagree with some of his picks...

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Well I would normally agree with you Diesel...but I don't think the "getting talent" part is working. We have 3 players that we can count on IMHO - TLue, JJ, and Shelden. Flat period. That's it.

[AHF]

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I think that's your issue. I don't think that BK should be fired and that's not my rant. I think that BK should stop

giving away players for picks

. We are past that stage in the building process. I think he needs to either move forward with a group of players and

if

he cannot

then

he should be fired...

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Don't you think that ownership was a deciding factor in how much salary BK was allowed to bring back in the trade for Al, though? It is clear to me that BK's hands were tied on that one.

[DJlaysitup]

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....Don't you think that ownership was a deciding factor in how much salary BK was allowed to bring back in the trade for Al, though? It is clear to me that BK's hands were tied on that one.

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yep.

[terrynoonan]

Billy would have probably destroyed the chemistry.

My point is that Al was the chemistry problem and now we just need one more veteran rebounder, hustler and intelligent playmaker.

Not a superstar, just some more knowledge.

[Nicholasp27]

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Have we even come back close to winning 33 games since he's been here???

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I'd say 26 wins is close

Especially since so many of the early games were decided by refs AND we lost collier right before the season

so yes, we have come close

and this year (only 2.5 years into rebuilding right now!!!!), we will surpass the 33 wins

so we coulda stayed with that team, and kept winning 30-35 games, or we could take 2 poor years (now in our past!) and then win 40 this year and even more in subsequent years

i'm pretty happy we chose this path, yep

[DJlaysitup]

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Have we even come back close to winning 33 games since he's been here???

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I'd say 26 wins is close

Especially since so many of the early games were decided by refs AND we lost collier right before the season

so yes, we have come close

and this year (only 2.5 years into rebuilding right now!!!!), we will surpass the 33 wins

so we coulda stayed with that team, and kept winning 30-35 games, or we could take 2 poor years (now in our past!) and then win 40 this year and even more in subsequent years

i'm pretty happy we chose this path, yep

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I think we are on the NOK-CP3 pattern. They got close o the playoffs last year, we will tuck up in behind them and follow then. Sad but true - CP3 will get his team to the playoffs...we will wait.

JJ is our hero but not as good a leader as CP3.

[Diesel]

Yes,

I do believe that Ownership played a major part in the Al deal. However, I hope that JC is not next on the hit parade.