Y'all are right...We don't need A.I.

[exodus]

When your argument gets punk'd, argue something else. I see you have been taking lessons from one of the other posters.

I bet if Iverson had played with a guy who won a scoring title you guys would still make excuses for him. Oh wait....

[AHF]

Quote:

---

When your argument gets punk'd, argue something else. I see you have been taking lessons from one of the other posters.

I bet if Iverson had played with a guy who won a scoring title you guys would still make excuses for him. Oh wait....

---

Who won a scoring title that played with AI?

[exodus]

Stackhouse won one in Detroit.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

When your argument gets punk'd, argue something else. I see you have been taking lessons from one of the other posters.

I bet if Iverson had played with a guy who won a scoring title you guys would still make excuses for him. Oh wait....

---

I can't tell if you really don't like Webber and are just arguing Webber to try to prove your point, or that you are such a Webber lover that your Webber goggles have you blind to the fact. Either way it is a REDICULOUS way to prove that AI is a cancer.

First of all, I didn't even WANT Iverson, if you could read you would know that. I'm just stating that Iverson is no cancer, and for some reason you keep bringing up Webber who is now absolutely horrible, he was even horrible in his last few seasons in Sac-town, but they had a Phoenix type offense then so he still got his points, although on about the SAME shooting %(and points) as he had last year in Philly. Why has Peja's FG% dropped slightly in the last 2 seasons?

I only made a mockery of your post because it's just FUNNY to me that you are arguing that Webber is still a great and helpful player. Like it's funny, everytime I see you defend him I laugh, I just don't see how anyone could honestly defend Webber as a great player at this time in his career and be serious. Funny that every other poster in THIS thread also agreed that Webber is NOWHERE near the same player he was, dude STATS don't tell the story. Anyone can prove ANYTHING with stats if you know how to use them, fact is Webber is nowhere NEAR where he used to be. If you can't see that you are blind, BLIND.

If stats tell the whole story like you obviously think they do, then why have Shaq's numbers fallen in Miami? T-Mac's in Orlando? Larry Hughes in Cleveland? Are Wade, LeBron, and Yao cancers too? You should realize that some people do better on different teams.

Didn't Webber average 20 and 9.9 with AI last year? how come he can't this year? His numbers have just DROPPED? OMG! Could it be that he just sucks now?

BTW comments from the USA team where AI played along stars.

Quote:

---

He finished the tournament ranked overall tied for 10th in scoring, tied for fourth in steals, fifth in 3-point percentage, tied for seventh in assists, and ninth in field goal percentage (.562)

Helped lead the USA to a 10-0 record, the gold medal and a qualifying berth for the 2004 Olympics at the Aug. 20-31 FIBA Americas Olympic Qualifying Tournament in Puerto Rico. Started all eight games he played in, and averaged a team second best 14.3 ppg., 3.8 apg., 2.5 rpg., 1.6 spg., while shooting 56.2 percent (41-73 FGs) from the field and 53.6 percent (15-28 3pt FGs) from 3-point and 81.0 percent (17-21 FTs) from the foul line.

---

http://www.usabasketball.com/biosmen/allen_iverson_bio.html

He shot less than 10 FG/g @ over 56%, was 7th in the WHOLE tourney in assists, and shot 56.7% from the field.

I realize that was the USA team and not the NBA, but I'd hardly call that selfish.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

First of all, I didn't even WANT Iverson, if you could read you would know that. I'm just stating that Iverson is no cancer, and for some reason you keep bringing up Webber who is now absolutely horrible, he was even horrible in his last few seasons in Sac-town,

---

So why did they trade for him if he sucked?

When Webber came to Philly AI said he was the best player that he had ever played with.

I am not really a Webber fan at all but I have a major problem with people disrespecting a guy who has averaged 20/10 for his career, and did it again last year. Players like that are rare.

Sure he is past his prime but people are acting like he is garbage. Nobody was saying that before he went to Philly.

Quote:

---

If stats tell the whole story like you obviously think they do, then why have Shaq's numbers fallen in Miami? T-Mac's in Orlando? Larry Hughes in Cleveland?

---

None of those guys are even playing now lol. They are all injured. And Tmac plays for Houston.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

Stackhouse won one in Detroit.

---

4 years AFTER he left Philly. Stacks numbers actually went UP the season they drafted AI. Did you expect Stack to get a scoring title in his rookie or sophomore year? How many people do that. He was NOT a scoring champion while in Philly, although still a good player who IMPROVED the season they drafted AI.

BTW what was Detroits record the year Stack won the scoring title? That's right, 30-52, while that SAME season AI was in the NBA Finals.

[exodus]

Which just proves that AI did have a legit, and young, second option to play with and they shipped him out. I wonder why.

And a young player improving isn't exactly news. Just look at JJ.

So don't try to say AI has never had a legit second option. They had a young Stackhouse and Hughes that they could have kept, but didn't.

[Johnnybravo4]

I will direct you to the thread I made about Bill Simmons article. It will put everything into perspective.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

So why did they trade for him if he sucked?

---

Did you SEE what they traded for him?? Kenny Thomas as the best player?? I'd have done that too. Besides most Philly fans actually REGRET it and blame King for that mistake, being that he makes 20 million.

Quote:

---

When Webber came to Philly AI said he was the best player that he had ever played with.

---

Career wise yes.

Quote:

---

I am not really a Webber fan at all but I have a major problem with people disrespecting a guy who has averaged 20/10 for his career, and did it again last year. Players like that are rare.

---

I'm not disrespecting him, I agree he is a great player for his career. However the Webber that played with AI is NOTHING compared to the one that played up until the 01-02 season.

Quote:

---

Sure he is past his prime but people are acting like he is garbage. Nobody was saying that before he went to Philly.

---

Way past his prime. And yes they WERE saying that before he left Sac, I remember watching him and saying damn he's lost a LOT. Why else would they trade him for Kenny Thomas as the head of the package?

Quote:

---

None of those guys are even playing now lol. They are all injured. And Tmac plays for Houston.

---

Exactly, injuries are what have affected their careers, just like with Webber. T-mac will get it going though.

[exodus]

I already read part of it. I shouldn't have to tell you which part i agreed with.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Why else would they trade him for Kenny Thomas as the head of the package?

---

Salary dump obviously. Phoenix did the same thing with Marbury.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

Which just proves that AI did have a legit, and young, second option to play with and they shipped him out. I wonder why.

---

Dude Stacks numbers IMPROVED in AI's rookie year, which was the ONLY season AI ever had a legit scoring option. So you are saying AI should have taken them to the finals in his rookie year? And Stacks soph? They traded him at the beginning of the next season.. that's on management not AI.

Quote:

---

And a young player improving isn't exactly news. Just look at JJ.

---

Wow you just killed yourself here. Basically what you are saying is that JJ has improved since his rook and soph years. EXACTLY! Are you saying JJ is the same player NOW that he was in Boston?? Because that's what you are saying about Stack in Detroit compared to his 1st and 2nd years! Stack was a better player in Detroit, like JJ is in Atlanta.

Quote:

---

So don't try to say AI has never had a legit second option. They had a young Stackhouse and Hughes that they could have kept, but didn't.

---

Again 1 season, his ROOKIE year. Noone is taking their team to the championship in their rookie season.

Hughes had one good season, it was in Washington.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Which just proves that AI did have a legit, and young, second option to play with and they shipped him out. I wonder why.

---

Dude Stacks numbers IMPROVED in AI's rookie year, which was the ONLY season AI ever had a legit scoring option. So you are saying AI should have taken them to the finals in his rookie year? And Stacks soph? They traded him at the beginning of the next season.. that's on management not AI.

---

Your perspective on young scorers with potential that were shipped out by Philly depends on your answer to the question, "why did Philly ship out Stack when his numbers improved in AI's rookie year and when he has shown himself to be a legit scoring option?"

If your answer is, "Philly's management is just stupid" then you probably think AI would be a consumate team player who can defer over the course of an NBA season to other players.

If you answer is, "Philly's management recognized that AI is a special talent who needs to dominate the ball and is best surrounded by defenders and rebounders" then you probably don't think he is a good fit in Atlanta.

AI has a track record as the biggest ballhog in basketball in the NBA. Over his career, it is not even close. Is that choice or necessity?

AI has shown on the National Team that he can play well with other big scorers when he is willing to tranform his game from what he has done in the NBA. Is that something he can do over the course of an NBA season? That is the $60 million question.

[terrynoonan]

Quote:

---

When your argument gets punk'd, argue something else. I see you have been taking lessons from one of the other posters.

I bet if Iverson had played with a guy who won a scoring title you guys would still make excuses for him. Oh wait....

---

I think I answered your dumb questions yesterday and you never responded. You just kept on arguing with people you thought you could win against. You asked two questions. Both dumb. I answered both. Nothing. "crickets" as you like to say, I think. I think we agree a lot. Your evaluation of Webber's game and character are frightening, though. The guy sucks. Not a team player at all. No need to argue. Nothing you could say would change the reality that is Webber. If you really play, how could you respect a player like him?

[exodus]

Quote:

---

If you really play, how could you respect a player like him?

---

Anyone who has averaged 20/10 for his career deserves a lot of respect. You have to go back to the 80s to find a Hawks who did it for 1 season.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

They traded him at the beginning of the next season.. that's on management not AI.

---

And why did they trade him? Either AI didn't want to play with Stack or vice versa, or management decided someone else would be a better "fit".

It is always about fitting everyone around AI instead of AI adjusting to the team. When a young Dumars came into the league Isiah willingly sacrificed some scoring to accomodate Dumars. When has AI ever done this?

[AtLaS]

Don't even know why I'm responding to this, because you aren't coming up with any good points.

Lets see, Stackhouse shot 40.7% during the 96-97 season. HORRIBLE. Averaged 3.1 assists.

Iverson shot 41.6%, and averaged 7.5 assists, and also averaged MORE REBOUNDS (Stack is like 6" taller), this is Iverson's ROOKIE season.

It's pretty clear who the better player was. Besides, when has Stackhouse EVER been considered a good team player??

BTW during Stacks scoring title year he shot 40%!!! How is that good for a scoring title player?! Also averaged over 4 TO's per game!

The reason they made the trade was obviously a good one. Because they won like 20 somethin games with Stack and Iverson. They traded Stack for Mckie and Theo which got them to the playoffs. They then traded Theo to us for Mutombo to get to the Finals. I'd say they made the right decision in trading Stack.

BTW I'm done with this, it's obvious you don't care about this you just don't want to lose an argument, so you have resorted to calling the current C-Webb and Stackhouse to good supporting players. Which is rediculous, who's next Big Dog?

[exodus]

Do you realize that somebody today claimed that this years Hawks team, without JJ, is better than any supporting cast AI has ever had?

The whole reason for iverson shooting such a low percentage , according to the apologists, is that he has always had a weak supporting cast. yet he came into the league playing beside a better scorer than anyone on the Hawks roster besides JJ.

And while Webber isn't what he used to be he was easily a better scorer than anyone on this years Hawks team other than JJ.

JJ has a very weak supporting cast yet shoots 50%. If he can do it why can't a HOF player like AI?

[AtLaS]

lmao JJ is a career 44% shooter. Second JJ has only played 18 games this year, let him do it a full season first. Last year he shot only 45%, and that was with another scorer in Harrington. Most star guards don't shoot 50% or better, other than MJ it is just extremely rare.

BTW Philly is currently getting spanked by Boston (horrible team) without AI, and shooting a whopping 39% as a team. Webber is 4-17, but hey! He got his 11-10 double double!

[exodus]

Yeah i just noticed the Boston game. They look like us right now without JJ.

Remember JJ has never made an All-Star game and is a young player. AI is a HOF player and yet everyone wants to try to make excuses for his poor shooting.

All you are doing is ignoring the elephant in the room. He almost always leads the league in attempts and shoots a poor percentage. Duh.