Josh Smith this month

[DavidSomerset]

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Moves for Bynum (my preference), Sene (or one of Seattles other 2 young centers, though not my preference), Pryz in FAcy,

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Who would play PF if we did that??

Something to think about.

[Dragitoff]

I caught the end of the Grizz game on Sirius satellite radio. It was the Memphis broadcasters since it was a Grizz home game. They said in the post-game interview that if Josh Smith isn't at least a 2nd team All-NBA defensive player, it's a crying shame. They said they haven't seen many players in the game, especially his size, that can change the game with just defense. I thought that was an amazing compliment especially since their team sucks so bad everyone looks great defensively against them.

[jerrywest]

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" 2 adjacent undersized post playrs = no title ever"

-Walter.

I'm surprised that this statement has been allowed to fly for so long???

As I have always said.. The NBA goes in cycles... There was a cycle when Big men were hard to find and winning without an "acceptable" big was the norm...

Some teams without bigs..

1.

1975 Golden State Warriors.

Walter, they won a championship. Their big man was the guy I would like here as an assistant (Clifford Ray). He's 6'9".

2.

1976 Boston Celtics

Who could forget the Boston Celtics with Dave Cowens and Paul Silas? Silas is only 6'7".

3.

1978 Washington Wizard

Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes anybody?

During the 70's of NBA basketball, the NBA adopted the philosophy of the ABA because of the lack of Big men. The ABA believed that you could win without Big men and they proved it. Hell, Back in the day, George McGinnis played Center for the Pacers. McGinnis was about 6'6"... maybe taller but he would be a SG now.

The point is that winning without bigs have been done. It requires an embrace of a speed game with scoring on the wings. We can do that.

The typical way to a championship has been with a big and shooters... That is why people were happy to see Patrick Ewing, Hakeem, Admiral, and those guys when the league was thirsty for new bigs... However, now, the league is in the need of bigs again, and even though bigs are coming, the speedy game can be successful (as before)...

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and while you are at it why are you forgetting

Rodman and Aguiree (Mahorn played 10 minutes with bad back)

James Worthy and Virgin Green

Who are those two guys between Hakeem and Clyde?

Pippen & Rodman (even their sub Kukoc was actually an SF)

[Sothron]

I think we can all agree though that in order to make up for Smoove and Marvin we need a very good defensive center to man the post and at least be some kind of threat down low to make other teams respect it. Zaza doesn't qualify.

[Guest Walter]

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Moves for Bynum (my preference), Sene (or one of Seattles other 2 young centers, though not my preference), Pryz in FAcy,

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Who would play PF if we did that??

Something to think about.

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Uhh, the whole point of getting a dominate center would be to allow us to play MW and JS together at the forwards without conceeding the post. Reread the post you are responding to for clarification.

W

[Guest Walter]

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The point is that winning without bigs have been done.

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Diesel, you are a laughing stock. If your argument for SW, JS, and MW frontline is that 30 years ago when the basketballs were red, white, and blue, teams played some post players as short as today (WTF?!? Today Sfs are occasionally 7' tall?!?) you're inane. 6'9" in the 70s was equivalent to 6'11" or taller today. Even in the last 30 years the average male height has increased (say an 1"). Morevoer, we're getting players from ALL OVER THE WORLD.

You have got to be kidding me, but thanks for doing the research to PROVE MY POINT! At least in the modern era (and that is the era we've been playing in for two decades now) you shouldn't even think about winning with an undersized post lineup.

W

[Nicholasp27]

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I think we can all agree though that in order to make up for Smoove and Marvin we need a very good defensive center to man the post and at least be some kind of threat down low to make other teams respect it. Zaza doesn't qualify.

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shelden does

[Guest Walter]

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I think we can all agree though that in order to make up for Smoove and Marvin we need a very good defensive center to man the post and at least be some kind of threat down low to make other teams respect it. Zaza doesn't qualify.

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shelden does

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Laughable. If we're going to play a Sf at Pf then I want my Center able to look down on at least 1 NBA center. Just one. Actually, I want my center to look down on at least one NBA center no matter whom we play at Pf. Let's start there and then work our way up to a center who does NOT CONCEED THE POST!

W

[Yeti]

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If we're going to play a Sf at Pf then I want my Center able to look down on at least 1 NBA center. Just one. Actually, I want my center to look down on at least one NBA center no matter whom we play at Pf.

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While I basically agree with you Walter, it is not inconceivable to win with a smaller lineup. That hasn't slowed down Phoenix. However, we don't have a Nash.

[Guest Walter]

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If we're going to play a Sf at Pf then I want my Center able to look down on at least 1 NBA center. Just one. Actually, I want my center to look down on at least one NBA center no matter whom we play at Pf.

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While I basically agree with you Walter, it is not inconceivable to win with a smaller lineup. That hasn't slowed down Phoenix. However, we don't have a Nash.

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...testing a small-fry front-court's contention-ability to be a lousy prospect at best. I'll take my chances with a real center (no hybrids, no short Pfs especially) if we're going to start JS and MW at the forwards and in this likely best scenario SW drafted at 5 (promised so no less) is an absolute disgrace.

While a player like Nash can fix many things I believe it would take both a Nash and a D'antoni to begin to allow for (thought still not justify) a midget front court and from their own quotes it is even more doubtful that SW would be the type short front-court player that they would prefer.

W

[thesheedera]

So Walter, what's your f-ing point? You want a two way dominant center to right our wrongs. You hate the adjacent undersized players. BK's an idiot.

That's fantastic.

How in the hell are you adding anything of value constantly repeating the same crap over and over and over again???

We don't work for Atlanta Spirit. We didn't choose the team we have. We can't change the past. Please stop repeating this crap as if it will somehow change the course of the team. We don't have to be "mindful" of past mistakes. WE ALL KNOW ABOUT THE G-DANG PAST MISTAKES!!!!!

We all would like some different things to happen, but no poster on this board repeats himself quite like you do. We're fully aware of your position, thanks for your incredible insight.

Sorry, just had to vent a bit.

[Diesel]

You virtually challenged anyone to find one case where the championship was won with undersized players.

I just pointed out your ignorance...

The championship was won several times when there were undersized frontcourts. And the NBA goes through cycles with and without bigs.

To me, it's like you trying to suggest that microwave popcorn is the only way to make popcorn. Just because you're ignorant of the facts don't mean that they don't exist.

[AHF]

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The point is that winning without bigs have been done.

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Diesel, you are a laughing stock. If your argument for SW, JS, and MW frontline is that 30 years ago when the basketballs were red, white, and blue, teams played some post players as short as today (WTF?!? Today Sfs are occasionally 7' tall?!?) you're inane. 6'9" in the 70s was equivalent to 6'11" or taller today. Even in the last 30 years the average male height has increased (say an 1"). Morevoer, we're getting players from ALL OVER THE WORLD.

You have got to be kidding me, but thanks for doing the research to PROVE MY POINT! At least in the modern era (and that is the era we've been playing in for two decades now) you shouldn't even think about winning with an undersized post lineup.

W

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Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!

Yeah, Diesel your point is ridiculous!!!!!!! You PROVED HIS POINT!!!!!

Today's centers are so much better than the centers when the Bullets won the championship. I mean let's compare them:

Yao Ming - 26.7 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 2.2 bpg >> Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 25.8 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 3.0 bpg

Shaquille O'Neal - 14.0 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.0 bpg >> Moses Malone - 19.4 ppg, 15.0 rpg, 1.3 bpg

Dwight Howard - 17.1 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 1.9 bpg >> Artis Gilmore 22.9 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 2.2 bpg

Brad Miller - 8.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, .3 bpg, 2.4 apg >> Bill Walton - 18.9 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 5.0 apg

Memhet Okur - 15.3 ppg, 7.9 rpg, .6 bpg >> Dave Cowens - 18.6 ppg, 14.0 rpg, .9 bpg

Emeka Okafor - 15.4 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 3.1 bpg >> Bob McAdoo 26.5 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 1.6 bpg

Andrei Biedrins 11.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 2.3 bpg >> Billy Paulz - 15.8 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 2.4 bpg

Ben Wallace 6.8 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.0 bpg >> Swen Nater - 15.5 ppg, 13.2 rpg, .6 bpg

Clearly, the new crowd of centers is vastly better than the ones from 30 years ago.

And the height difference is huge:

Today's centers:

7'6

7'1

7'0

6'11

6'11

6'11

6'10

6'9

30 Years ago:

7'2

7'2

6'11

6'11

6'11

6'10

6'9

6'9

As you can see, these are totally different worlds and today's centers would mop the floor with the losers of yesteryear.

And the depth just keeps going for today's guys with guys like Brendan Haywood, Zaza Pachulia, etc. ruling their predecessors in Wes Unseld, Tree Rollins, etc.

[exodus]

LOL

Is it just my imagination or is this site starting to corrupt you?

[DavidSomerset]

JS is progressing defensively to the point that we don't need that type of center.

[AHF]

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LOL

Is it just my imagination or is this site starting to corrupt you?

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It is a pet peeve of mine when people pretend like we are living in a new world of basketball and that guys from the 70s, 80s and 90s couldn't compete with the guys today. I am not lumping Walter in with this, but some of these kids actually think Jordan would be an average athlete in today's NBA because the level of athleticism is so high. I have also seen about a hundred times the arguments about how Wilt had no one to compete against, etc. It is annoying and hard to understand when you look at the actual people.

[exodus]

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It is a pet peeve of mine when people pretend like we are living in a new world of basketball and that guys from the 70s, 80s and 90s couldn't compete with the guys today.

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I know what you mean. I was a Bullets fan when they won the title in '78 (sets off geezer alarm) and I know Elvin Hayes would be an elite player now just like he was then.

[Gray Mule]

When you really stop and think about all this discussion,

There is something more to consider about a starting

center. Short or tall doesn't really matter so much.

Then, what does? Being big. That means muscles. Power.

Not just big, as in fat, but big as in, "You can't push

me around inside, on offense or defense."

A center who knows how to position his body to defend the

layup practice. Who knows how to position himself to

grab the rebound. One who won't be intimidated by the

opponent's size.

Doesn't matter if the center is taller than everyone else.

If he can't do the job, he's useless. Doesn't matter

if he's shorter than everyone else if he can do the job.

Walter is right. We need a dominating center. Walter

is wrong when he says the center must be as tall or

taller than our opponents center.

Also, hindsight is always 20/20. When we see what a

player does in the league, we can look back and say, "We should have taken that player."

Forget the past. It's just that, past. Can't go back

and change anything. If we could do that, M. Jordan

wouldn't have dropped in the draft to where he did.

Today, all we can do is look to the future and try

to guess what is best for our beloved Hawks. Who

do we expect to draft? Who can we sign as a free

agent? Who can we trade for & would the other team

be willing to make the trade?

Size does matter, but only if size can get the job done.

Look to the future. Quit living in the past. That's

for old people, like me! I remember when - - -(Never mind!)

[Diesel]

The competition level was much higher back then.

When you only have between 8 and 20 teams, there's a lot more competent players on teams.

Where does Royal Ivey play in a 16 team league?

[AHF]

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Where does Royal Ivey play in a 16 team league?

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Probably somewhere in Asia.