Traceman's Take On The State of The Hawks

[Traceman]

Guys, since I've been away for a while, I thought I'd give my take on how I see things right now.

I thought Lon had to go for obvious reasons but I think its clear that he wasn't the only problem. I also think its clear that Pete has to go because although he has assembled some decent talent on this team, the talent does not fit together at all. Pete assembled this team without any vision as to what he wanted it to look like when it was completed. He simply went out and got the best talent he could and what you see is the result. A complete disaster. He should have followed the blue print of Joe Dumars in his rebuilding effort.

Basically, I just don't think our parts fit together very well. I don't think its about effort, talent or even coaching. We play pretty hard most of the time (smart is another matter), we have enough talent to be pretty good (not great) and Stotts is a decent coach (not great). The pieces that we have simply do not fit together.

Theo will never be very effective playing alongside a front line of Big Dog and Reef. Both of those guys are below average defenders and neither has enough bulk to help Theo out in the trenches. Theo needs a big, physical PF (or Center) who can rebound and who is an above average low post defender in order to be his most effective (Elton Brand, Brian Grant, Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Olowokandi, etc). Actually, I think Theo would play a lot better if Hendu or Nazr started at PF and Reef was at SF.

Reef needs either a big TRUE Center who can defend if he's going to play PF (Olowokandi, Brad Miller) or I think he needs to play more at SF. Reef is just too much of a liability on the defensive end when playing against good offensive PFs and because Big Dog is no better against good offensive SFs, we are just plain bad defensively on many nights.

Big Dog needs two quality defenders in the low post and a good PG in order for him to be most effective. A lot of people blame Big Dog for our woes but I think Reef is every bit as much of a problem as he is. The two of them just don't mix on the defensive end. I think Dog would play a lot better alongside Theo and Hendu or Theo and Nazr. If I were Stotts, I'd start Reef and Big Dog together but as the game went on, I'd set my rotations where Reef and Big Dog were not on the court together all that often. Both could still play 35 mpg or so but only play about 22 mpg together.

JT is never going to be a true PG but I do think he can be very good if we get a good ballhandling SG (Christie, Barry), another combo type guard with skills similar to JT's (Arenas, Jamaal Crawford) or ideally, a pure PG with size (Miller, Snow, GP). I love JT and I think we will regret trading him if we do. I think that Babcock has failed miserably by being unable to find a good combo guard to come in and play with JT and share the ballhandling workload. As good as Andre Miller is, I don't know how effective he would be playing with guys who mishandle the ball as much as Reef, Dog, Ira, Darvin and many others do. We need another ballhandler in the starting lineup IN ADDITION to JT, not in place of him!

The other guys are all role players so I won't go into a diatribe about them other than to say that I think Nazr needs more PT. He is starting to round into form and I would like to see him get some time alongside Theo as well as in place of Theo. As bad of a defender as Nazr is, he presents more of a challenge to the opposition than Reef does because of his size, plus he's a better rebounder. I would like to see a big front line of Nazr/Theo/Reef at times and I'd like to see Nazr/Theo/Big Dog as well. At SG, Ira is not a good ballhandler either so sliding Big Dog down to the 2 for a few minutes in certain situations could work (I'd rather see us go out and get another combo guard though).

I have many other thoughts but this is getting long so I'll stop here. It's good to be back!

[Guest]

100% correct.As much as I get mad this really is

a decent team as far as talent goes.But you said

everything correct.Honestly I just can't watch the

games anymore.I never thought I;d really go through

with it but it is nearly impossible to watch a team

do so many things wrong.This team is going to have

to play like a NBA team and it doesn't really mean

being a top 3 seed.Don't play like your clueless!I'm

a sucker for good played B ball.

I think your right about Hendu/Theo.We could consider

trading Big Dog for PG and moving Reef to SF and Hendu

back to the starting lineup.Big Dog in a 3 way deal with

us getting Miller would be great.

Andre Miller

Jason Terry

Shareef

Hendu

Theo

Would we be good enough to win you think?

[emeans]

I totally agree with your accessment of this team. You explained it very well. Now how do you fix this problem??

I think you have to do it in stages. First I would deal with the guard situation. I love Jason Terry but he would be traded because like I said before the season (people blasted me on this forum), Jason is a shooting guard in a point guards body playing point guard. It will not work!!!! That is why he turns the ball over too much and why he makes easy passes look so hard to perform. It makes me frustrated looking at him play this position. If Demarr comes back next year and shows he can play at the same level he left off, he is my shooting guard. I would package JT and Nazr or someone else except SAR and Big Dog for one of the forwards and a point guard you talked about.

Guys may disagree with me but I am keeping SAR and Big Dog on this team. My philosophy is that you can never have too many scorers.....It just depends on what you put around them and when they play that is important. Jason is a scorer but he is in the wrong body and he is playing out of position.

My theory is the problem with this team is with its guards. If we can get a TRUE point guard and a TRUE shooting guard, you will see a big difference. Most importantly your turnovers will go down.

The point guard is so important to any team. He is the general and right now we have no general running this team.

After I get the guard positions right then I start tinkering with the other pieces, but it starts with the guards.

[Traceman]

I think that would certainly be a step in the right direction because Miller is without question one of the best true PGs in the game despite how poorly LAC is playing right now.

[Traceman]

I think the first thing I would try is to figure out a way to go out and acquire a SG guard with some good ballhandling skills or a combo guard like Gilbert Arenas, Tony Delk, Bobby Jackson or Erick Strickland. Unless JT starts at SG, we have the worst ballhandling SG in the NBA every night. That is bad enough when you have a pure PG, but with JT, its an unmitigated disaster. Look at Boston. They play without a true PG but Pierce, Walker and Williams are all good ballhandlers so they can plug in a guy like Shammond Williams (a mini JT clone), JR Bremer or Tony Delk and still get the job done. Same goes for Indy. Tinsley is a true PG but they actually play at least as well and arguable better with combo guard Eric Strickland at the point. Before we move JT and watch him flourish playing alongside a decent SG (or PG), I'd like to see us get a decent SG here. A young Steve Smith would be ideal.

If we can't do any of the above, trading JT is certainly an option but bringing in Andre Miller and starting him alongside Ira Newble is probably not going to make us considerably better. Ira is a SF and I think we would still need a true SG who can shoot and handle the ball to be a good team.

I agree with you that the primary situation that needs to be addressed is the guard situation. You can't turn the ball over as much as we do and win consistently and taking care of the ball starts with good guard play. Hopefully, the team will address the problem soon but I hope they don't panic and make a move for the short term that they will regret in the long run.

[jaywalker72]

Perfect, simply perfect...

[Teeareess]

You mention a lot about our Defense, but it's been our offense, and turnovers that have me so disapointed. Team passing and spacing leave a lot to be disired. Am I the only one who expected Theo to average about 10 to 14 a game just off garbage points? He's a good athelete with decent hands on a team full of scorers. Why is he not more of a factor?

I really like the idea of Reef & Dog playing seperately. I think that when both are in the game, and we key on Reef, Glen tends to loose focus and puts up some terrible shots.

I'd also like to see the pick'N'roll run with JT&Dog instead of SAR from time to time. If we're gonna create open jumpers for one of our forwards, I'd rather the best midrange jumpshooter in the game than Shareef's line drives.

I also don't think Reef at 3 is the answer. I think putting him at 3 will only force opponents to double team him more often and more aggresively. For some players that would be a good thing, the opportunity ot make passes and create for your teammates, but for Reef...

I won't say much about Terry, Nazr, Ira, or the Defense, because I'd only echo Trace.

[coachx]

Who would run their pg situation, we don't have anyone to offer who can run the point/Is he in the last year of his contract ? If so they might trade him b/c of their past history of not resigning their own talent. If he is in the last year of his contract like JT is, how could we resign them. Everyone would want Miller, there is no way he resigns with this team the way it is now.

Traceman, you have several good points, but shed some lite on why the Clippers trade Miller for Big Dog when they have plenty of sf on their team as it stands.

Maybe they trade Odom, but not Miller.

[coachx]

A good guard could fix so many glareing problems.Several have talked about this deal before. I think this deal makes us better.

Present Weaknesses: Poor defense, too many slow footed players at quick feet positions, lack of athleticism, perimeter shooting.

This deal strengthens all of these weaknesess. Dog is an overated shooter from outside, Sure his mid range game is sweet but that is all he has. Anderson is a better 3 point shooter, better ball handler, much quicker with and without the ball, better defensive player, and actually plays with heart, and is knows what pass means. Remeber his one year with Spurs. This guy could be 20 ppg guy on this team if asked.

Terry/Wilks

Anderson

Newbell/Glover

Reef/

Theo

This trade makes us {not the Kings or Mavericks} but a team who can actually run the floor. The present unit gets out ran every night. Sure the TO don't help but where to slow to get back on D. Dog can't keep up with most sf, he thinks he can out shoot them. Newbel struggles to keep up with many 2 guards but is quicker than most sf.

Newbell moves to his natural position.

Now we are a quick team.

Terry- top 3 in the league in speed

D.A.- as quick as any sg in the league

Newbwel- quick for a sf

Reed- average speed

Theo- could be the quickest starting center in the league

Now we have a starting 5 who can all run the floor. Isn't this what Pete first wanted when we disassembelled the team in 99 ?

On a side note: If DJ were healthy this would be a strong team the way it is.

[Guest]

Finally someone else is noticing that Big Dog, while having a sweet midrange shot, can't hit from deep with much accuracy...which heavily contributes to our "spacing" problems - we miss DJ or someone who can hit from there. Dog can't pass either.

I'm actually intrigued by the notion of the pick n' role with Dog and JT - good thought.

No way the Clipps trade for Dog - Sterling/ Baylor love Odom; simply put, of all the guys they have to resign, Odom is the most likely.

They didn't draft Jaric, who's been playing pro ball, for him to be a full time backup and Miller certainly can't play sg...btw, where's their other pg, Q, these days?

That team is ripe for a trade, loaded with talent, and out of the playoffs for all practical purposes this season.

You want a three way with Robinson to get Miller - tell me this, what team needs Robinson right now? Seriously, I'd like to hear suggestions

[Diesel]

Being that Trace was one of Diesel's biggest critics... I take personal Joy in saying... "I told you so".

In reply to:

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thought Lon had to go for obvious reasons

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I told you so.

In reply to:

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Theo will never be very effective playing alongside a front line of Big Dog and Reef.

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How many times did I tell you guys that Theo wouldn't make a difference on a team built for offense.

In reply to:

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Reef needs either a big TRUE Center who can defend if he's going to play PF

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Yep, I said that Reef needs a rebounder and a banger down Low. Khandi is my suggestion.

In reply to:

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Big Dog needs two quality defenders in the low post and a good PG in order for him to be most effective

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I disagree with the Defenders (that's wishful but it won't work). I told you and am still telling you that a good PG would be best for Big Dog, SAR, and JT...

In reply to:

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JT is never going to be a true PG but I do think he can be very good if we get a good ballhandling SG

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I told you so. When I mentioned Trading JT for a SG and going with Dickau as a PG... There was mass histeria here. How many times did people try to prove that JT would be an excellent PG this season. I told you... He doesn't make the offense move... he gets the easy assists but doesn't make plays.

In reply to:

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I think Nazr needs more PT

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Lastly, I told you so. I think that Nazr could be a main guy here. ONLY that he shouldn't be the only guy that can play C here.

So... Seeing that you didn't listen this summer and last yr... Let's try this again. I have a list of things (simple things) that will help.

1. We need a PG. I wouldn't turn it over to DD just yet.. But I would get him a mentor. Some names...

Jacque Vaughn. Andre' Miller. Kenny Anderson. John Stockton (if Utah trade Malone).

There's one other name that hasn't been mentioned here for various reasons....

Damon Stoudamire. Yes, that's a poison pill name... But hear me out. Stoudamire was a very good PG before the big contract and the move to PTL. He's even been a good PG in limited time in PTL. However, what DS needs is playing time. I believe that on this team, he could be a 16/10 PG. I also think we can get him for Cheap... Hendu/CC/and maybe DJ for DS. PTL would do it because they are trying to dump him... We should consider it if we can get him for our BUs because he's a good PG.. Him and JT would be killer in the east. Just think about it for a moment. I know about his Salary... We're not done yet.

2. We need a rebounder.

Preferably somebody who is a wide body. I've brought up Khandi's name already. It would be nice if LAC would consider Theo/1st for Khandi/Maggette/and Filler.

3. Lastly we need to play a zone. Maybe a 2-3 and a 3-2. Reason being is that I don't think it's possible to get a tall PG to play beside JT. AND All these Combo gaurds are not going to get it done.

Lastly, if none of that is liked or likely... Maybe a trade of Nazr/JT to PTL for Derrick Anderson and let Dickau play the PG. We kill a few birds that way as well. My reason for Keeping JT is that I believe he can be a good SG. He has good FG% especially from outside. He's fast. And there are not many SGs that can check him. If we play a zone, we will win more than we lose.

[jaywalker72]

D, as much stuff as you toss out there, hearing you brag about some of your more broader statements coming to pass rings rings sort of hollow.

No doubt, you have been on point, but there is no need to dance around the EZ, spiking the ball on people, especially those who were willing to wait some things out before making declarations.

Your opinions are so voluminous that nobody can possibly toss them back in your face when you are wrong, and not that anybody should.

But you sound like a very needy person when you do your victory dance all over the place.

A lot of us notice when you are right (like the time of Kruger's demise), so don't dilute your opinions by championing them...

On second thought, who cares? Let it out man! Blow your own horn! Job Well Done!!!

Back to your post.

1. Pass on Stoudamire and Vaughn. Is Damon worth the money or trouble? Why go down this road? Aren't there others who can do it well and still have some fire? And Vaughn didn't seem to make many plays while he was here, though I could be sore from all the times I heard Stinger and Bob praised him as he dribbled the clock down.

2. The Clippers are ripe for the picking, but we have to be sure that if we trade for an ending contract, especially if we deal yet another 1st, we can sign the guy.

3. I think that playing zone is nice for a change of pace, but good coaches can beat a zone if you rely on it too much.

4. I think that any trade would be a minor deal, unless it frees us up financially ove rthe long haul. I believe that the Hawks will change GM's in the offseason, so Kasten will not want to have yet another long deal (like Damon's) on the books, further restricting or even deterring GM's that may want this job.

[Guest]

Diesel has a right to brag.But I don't like Stoudamire

that much either.

As I read about DJ being the future.Dermarr will never

be a star.He never had it and he surely will not have

it after his injuries.He never should have been a lotto

pick in the first place.He had no business being a lotto

pick.

[Traceman]

you WERE right about several things. [censored], even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then!

1) I'll give you Lon although I think its quite clear that he wasn't any more at fault than the players. We are still a bad team despite his absence. At least we scored when he was here, now we struggle to score 90 ppg. The reason I said he had to go for "obvious reasons" is because something major had to change and since Pete couldn't trade the whole team, Lon was the obvious choice. I assume Pete will be in the unemployment line prior to next season. ANY coach would struggle with this team.

2) Theo was here BEFORE Big Dog. Obviously, this team wasn't built for offense or defense which is exactly why we have no identity. Pete just went out and got the best players he could get without consideration as to how they would fit together. Actually, he might have considered how they would fit together but he obviously got it wrong. And it's not that Theo can't help a team buit for offense. He would be great in Sac-town, LAC, LAL, etc. It's the TYPE of offensive guys he has around him. C Webb (or Vlade), Brand (or Olowokandi) and Shaq would all allow Theo to do what he does best.

3) Reef is too poor of a defender to play effectively alongside an undersized Center like Theo. You blame that on Theo but Reef is the problem there in my opinion. He needs to either get in the weight room or slide over to SF a lot more often.

4) Why do you disagree with Big Dog needing 2 strong defenders up front? He is clearly a liability on D and if one of the other front court players is weak too, the 3rd player (Theo) can't take up the slack for both of them. As for the good PG, no doubt a good PG would do a better job of getting Big Dog the rock where he can be most effective with it rather than giving it to him just because he calls for it as JToften does.

5) I NEVER said JT was going to be a true PG and I still think he can be an effective one if we had a decent SG. Even a combo guard would be a better option than what we have now. We might have the worst ballhandling lineup in the history of the NBA. With JT being a below average ballhandler for a PG, he is doomed from the start. Name a team in the NBA who handles the ball any worse than we do. Has JT really been giving a chance to succeed at PG under the circumstances? I don't think so. He would literally be better off playing PG for ANY other team in the NBA! As for trading JT and going with Dickau at PG, I don't think that is the answer. Dickau definitely sees the floor better than JT but I don't know yet if he has what it takes to be a full time starter in the NBA. If we trade JT for a SG, that SG had better have a chance to be special or we will live to regret it.

6) There is a BIG difference between Nazr getting more PT and Nazr being a main guy. I thought Nazr was signed to play 24 mpg or so and that is what I would like to see him do. Nazr has yet to prove that he can be consistently effective over a whole season.

As for your proposed remedies, here are my thoughts.

1) I don't have a problem bringing in a PG and moving JT to SG IF its the right guy but DD and JT should never be considered as a long term solution. And Andre Miller as a MENTOR to DD? Heck, if we had Miller, why would we CARE about mentoring DD! As for Stoudemire, no way! He is Mike Wilks with better O and less D. I HATE the Mighty Mouse backcourt. I'd rather trade JT than even try that.

2) Why in the world would LAC trade Olowokandi and Magette for Theo? I'd do that in a heartbeat but the last thing LAC wants is to get a big contract like Theo's when they have to sign Brand, Odom and Miller. If you were LAC's GM, would you rather give Theo $10+ million or one of those guys? A True Center who can rebound and defend would be nice but I don't see it happening that way.

3) As for the zone D, I think its fine at times but I don't think it is going to work all the time. I do agree with you that when we have two little guys in the backcourt, it is probably the best way to go.

4) No way in [censored] would I trade JT AND Nazr for injury prone DA. DA is good but he's no superstar. Portland would be all over that deal in a heartbeat!

4)

3)

[Diesel]

So you mean the yr and 1/2 that I posted that Theo would not make a difference and that we should trade him while he still has value was just some broad statement I "tossed out there"?

When I spent the whole summer telling people that we didn't get Dickau to sit on the bench was just "some broad statement".

J, you should realize by mere reading that I take a Lot of crap from people around here when I post thoughts and ideas. If I take the crap... Why not get some credit too?

[Diesel]

1. If we keep JT. We need to find a PG. I have been hearing all the talk about a combo gaurd, and I don't think it will work. For instance... going out and getting a guy like Doug Christie. Sure he can handle the ball from time to time.... But He doesn't initiate the offense. It would be like having 2 JTs out there. Sure... It sounds good, but I just don't think that Either of the Combo gaurds I have heard Mentioned would do the trick. Another name that I want to Forward is GP. Could Theo/Big Dog bring us back GP and a filler (maybe Radmo)? Well, Seattle has less use for Big Dog... It would require SAR. Again, we see the problem. Giving up what is the franchise for an aging vet... all for the sake of JT? Secondly, if Stoudamire were cheap (Hendu/CC/one other player) then dealing for him wouldn't be that bad. However, he's not cheap.

Lastly... The point about minimouse backcourt. If we play a zone, I don't see a problem with it. Everybody talks about how we get killed on matchups. That doesn't matter in a zone. We can put but our Minimouse players on top and let them race the perimeter. Nobody's going to post them up 22 feet out? Also, with that is the theory that we can move past because we would then be set up to outscore opponent rather than defend. This lost to Boston was indicitive of what our problem is and continues to be. We are an offensive team.. Yet, we only put 66 points on the board. We can sit around and cry about defense defense defense... However, unless we plan on holding Walker/Pierce + Celtics to 50... Defense is not our problem.

2. You're right. LAC probably won't trade Khandi/Maggette. However, with their current losing ways... Don't be surprised to see Sterling start salary dumping for Picks. Honestly... Khandi, Miller, Odom, Jaric, Maggette, and Brand are becoming FAs all the sudden. With their losing ways, Sterling will only keep 2 and pawn the rest off. I think he keeps Brand/Odom. Brand because he's 20/10. Odom because he can pay him less than the max. Khandi is certainly out in LAC. I proposed sending Theo there because Theo would be really good playing next to Brand. Theo needs to play next to a rebounder. Theo would also be very good playing in Detroit. But back to LAC... I don't know what they would have to give back to make up Theo's Salary, However, I would want Khandi.

3. I think Reef is a 20/10 Pf that has seen allstar action. Theo is a PF turned C. Yes, I blamed Theo... Because I've seen Reef play without a great C (Long). However, I've never seen Theo excel witout a great rebounder (T. Hill).

4. Trading JT might be the long term fix. Dickau will be a good PG. That means if we trade JT, we should get somebody who can do the same that JT can do... Put up close to 20. I said DA. I mentioned Nazr because I think that the salaries work. Of course there are other JT based trades that might work... JT/Hendu/Email to PTL for DA/Woods/McInnis. However, I just was trying to figure a scorer for JT.

Of that list....

Anderson, B. Barry, Stackhouse (wouldn't that be something, big Hog + Boss Hog), Rose, V. Carter ( I believe the right package could return Air Canada)... etc.

However, let us go back to the "k.i.s.s." portion of our post. I think the simplest thing we can do is:

quickly see if Orlando is still interested in Nazr. I propose Nazr/Glover for Vaughn/Miller. The thought is that we can see if Vaughn can play the one with JT at the 2. If this doesn't work, we move JT for Something else and play Miller as the 2 next season. However, we should see about the possibility of getting Vaughn.

[Traceman]

If we could find a combo player with JT's skill set out there, that would be great! Think of all the "easy assists" the two of them would get! Ha! We'd have 2 guys in the top 10 in the NBA in assists or one guy leading the league in assists with the other guy scoring 20+ ppg. If JT the PG could play alongside JT the SG, both JT's would look a lot better!

As for getting a guy like Christie, its not so much about who intiates the offense that causes the problem. Its the fact that NONE of our guys can help JT with the ballhandling responsibilities when he's at PG. When JT gets pressed, he has to try to beat the pressure by himself rather than just throwing it over to the SG or SF. Hardly any other team has that problem. Basically we just need another ballhandler in the lineup. Someone who can dribble and pass without turning the ball over.

GP would be great but at what Price? If I'm Seattle, unless the Hawks are offering Reef or a combo of Theo/JT, I'm not interested. You're right when you say they have no need for Big Dog. Any deal that would land us GP would likely have to be a 3-way. Although I'll tell you one thing. I would STRONGLY consider a Reef/DD for GP/Radmanovic deal. I'm sure Seattle would want JT instead of DD but that is too much to give. GP probably has 3 more good years in him after this season (4 max)but Reef and JT probably have 10 more good seasons left.

I don't think the mini backcourt is going to work long term. Especially not THAT small (JT and Stoudamire or JT and DD). I don't think we necessarily need a 6-7 PG or combo guard. I think a PG the size of GP or Andre Miller would be fine.

I think its very likely that Sterling will only sign a couple of players, which is precisely why he won't want a guy like Theo. The Clips will be looking for young guys who are still under their rookie contracts and picks . If Memphis wants to move one of their young forwards and a pick, I 'll bet they could get a couple of good players out of LAC.

Of course Theo would be good in Detroit. Ben Wallace would be good here too! A front line of Theo/Ben/Dog (or Reef) would be VERY good. I wouldn't have done it before the season started and Detroit wouldn't do it now but I would trade Reef and JT for Big Ben and Rip Hamilton.

Big Ben/Nazr

Theo/Hendu

Dog/Ham/CC

Hamilton/Newble/Glover

Wilks/DD

As for Reef playing along side Long, how many games did his team win when he did that? And Reef is NOT a perennial 20/10 PF. How many times has he averaged a 10 rbg for the season? ONCE! He is more like a 20/8.5 guy. That is good, but it doesn't put him in the TD, C Webb, KG, Nowitzki, Elton Brand club. Reef is a VERY good player but he is no superstar.

IF we trade JT (I'd still prefer to get a SG, combo guard or top flight PG who could handle the ball a little first) , we do need to relace his point prodcution. Your DA/McInnis/Woods for JT/Hendu/E Mail would not be bad at all. We'd get a good PG in McInnis, a promising player in Woods and a very good when healthy SG in DA. I'd probably do that deal if we had to trade JT.

Of the names you mentioned as possible replacements for JT, I'd LOVE to see him play alongside ANY of those guys to see what he could do. That is the problem I have with trading him.

In your Orlando trade proposal, we wouldn't need JV. If we could get Miller here to play SG, JT would have that 2nd ballhandler that he needs. The backcourt would be set.

[mrhonline]

Jay, I think you're right about the new GM, but the question still remains, what happens if the Hawks don't start winning before the All-Star break? Will they get desperate and make a major trade or will they simply resign themselves to a losing season? If Kasten expects to replace Babcock, does he then trade a starter away for an expiring contract and/or a draft pick and start over? I would imagine that they sit down and decide which players are essential to growth and go from there, right?

As a side note, if Big Dog is traded, what about moving SAR back to SF? He's not really playing like a PF or being used like one, so why not? Just a thought.