Hawks only 4 1/2 games out of the 8th seed again!

[hawk25]

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every team in the eastern conference is in the playoffs race if you look at it like that but seriously i want the hawks to compete for a nba championship something they have never done not for the 8th seed every year

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Well were only going to get better right? Why not get the 8th playoff spot this year and build on that for next year! Your post above acts like we need to win the championship this year or something. Were a YOUNG team that needs to get better every year. Making the playoffs this year albeit the 8th seed even would be a HUGE confidence boost for this team. We can always look to improve our team as well in the offseason or trade deadline along with our Indy pick next year. You can't build championship team overnight man.

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i was tellin you what i want to see the hawks do in the future i didnt say nothing about winning a championship this year... we have been rebuilding for how long now

[gutz]

Are you saying that if we made the playoffs this year even if its an 8th seed, that isn't improvement to build on for next year? I understand wanting to get a player like Oden in the draft to enhance our chances to go deeper in the playoffs but its very unlikely we get lucky enough to get the #1 pick. Other than Oden there really isn't a player that is going to significantly put us over the top in this draft. Its true that there are a lot of big men available but no one near like Oden. People that think Noah, Horford or Wright and so on are game changing players like Oden don't know what they are talking about. These guys all have A LOT of work to do IF they ever become legit NBA centers. They are basically projects which we don't need anymore of. Another downfall of tanking is say the balls don't roll our way and we end up with the 4th pick then Phoenix gets it. That would just be horrible! I would rather try to keep improving and winning this year and then draft a big like Roy Hibbert with the Indy pick. Then see what we can do at the trade deadline. Of course our ownership situation could hamper any moves we can make.

[AtLaS]

he's not thinking straight man, Oden is such a long shot it's really not even worth debating. IF we have the WORST record, we still only have a 25% shot at Oden IF he comes out. We will NOT have the worst record so our chances just get smaller and smaller.

Our chances of making the playoffs this year (being 4.5 games back and have 40 games left) are MUCH better than our chance to get Oden. Trying to get the #1 overall pick in the NBA is just a horrible option and almost impossible to achieve.

[DJlaysitup]

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....People that think Noah, Horford or Wright and so on are game changing players like Oden don't know what they are talking about. These guys all have A LOT of work to do IF they ever become legit NBA centers...

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I've watched Florida some lately and I'm convinced that any team who takes Noah to be a center is fooling itself. I serviously doubt he has any interest in banging with the big boys in the NBA. He will be a PF and a finesse one at that.

Now that's not to say he will be a bust - I think he will bring a lot to the table. But he's not the answer at the center spot.

We need a center that can compete AS a center. We can't look at PHX and say "well they don't have a traditional center" because we don't have their coach/system or their MVP PG so it's a moot point.

We have an old school eastern conference coach who runs a half court offense - so we need a real center.

[AtLaS]

Noah is trash.

[bfwolf]

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he's not thinking straight man, Oden is such a long shot it's really not even worth debating. IF we have the WORST record, we still only have a 25% shot at Oden IF he comes out. We will NOT have the worst record so our chances just get smaller and smaller.

Our chances of making the playoffs this year (being 4.5 games back and have 40 games left) are MUCH better than our chance to get Oden. Trying to get the #1 overall pick in the NBA is just a horrible option and almost impossible to achieve.

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Atlas, that is the funniest thing I've heard all day. Our chances of making the playoffs are less than 1%. Our chances of getting Oden are far better than that, and only get better the more we lose.

[Diesel]

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NORMALLY losing in more profitable in the long run that just being mediocre

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And I am considering that you said "NORMALLY".

However, I think it depends on if your team has an identity and maturity.

That's the dealbreaker as it pertains to losing and being mediocre. A team can be mediocre and get better if it has an identity. For instance, Kobe's Lakers. The year that they were sorry and got the 10th pick. The losing didn't really effect them strongly because they already had an identity and their losing was partly due to injury and stupid decisions. However, when you lack identity like us with the big 4 just a few years ago (and us now).. Losing takes a huge toll. There is no way that a team with the collective skills of SAR, Big Dog, Theo, and JT should lose more than 45 games... But they did. The reason is because they became a losing team with no identity. Before you know it Morale was GONE!

We have an immature team. That's not an excuse, that's the facts. we're finding our way around. I think it's best that they do the best they can. Leave tanking for those teams who are not bringing their players back.

[Diesel]

You're giving up with 42 games left to play and 4.5 games out?

Wow!!

[gutz]

Where does your imaginary 1% chance come from dude? I know our chances of making the playoffs are not less than 1% when we are only 4 1/2 games back of the last spot. How did you come up with that number?

[AHF]

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Where does your imaginary 1% chance come from dude? I know our chances of making the playoffs are not less than 1% when we are only 4 1/2 games back of the last spot. How did you come up with that number?

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It is Walter's number. Search some of his recent posts and you will be able to find the computation. It is roughly based on what record he expects to be necessary to get the 8th seed based on the history of EC playoff finishes and his estimation of our likelihood of reaching that number.

[AtLaS]

which is a complete bias opinion to use statistics as a means of proving a point. Walter will do anything or make any argument to prove his point. He made a LONG drawn out post about how Chris Paul did against taller PGs in college and used statistics to point out how badly he did against them, which in turn would be how he performs in the NBA. We all know how that turned out. This was ALL to increase his argument for Bogut, which also turned out to be a dud for a #1 pick. He also bashed Childress to no end in the past.

[Popeye]

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He made a LONG drawn out post about how Chris Paul did against taller PGs in college and used statistics to point out how badly he did against them.

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HAHAHAHA... LMAO.

[DJlaysitup]

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... Losing takes a huge toll...

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I dunno D...this ain't little league. I think a "losing mentality" could be turned around in a heartbeat with the right coach installing a better system and instilling confidence. These guys are young but they are pros.

Therefore, the logical thing may be to stick with Woody this year (let him do the tanking for us) - take a chance on getting a 1-2-3 pick, then can him and bring in a more competitve/sophisticated coach next year. That would be a good plan if our owners could take action and DO something.

(the first part is easy)

[AtLaS]

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Our chances of making the playoffs are less than 1%. Our chances of getting Oden are far better than that, and only get better the more we lose.

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Dude how are you going to say that as fact? Is it a FACT that we have less than a 1% chance? With 42 games left and ONLY 4.5 games back?? Are you retarted? Quit buying into Walter's biased and skewed statistical arguments.

[Dsinner]

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Where does your imaginary 1% chance come from dude? I know our chances of making the playoffs are not less than 1% when we are only 4 1/2 games back of the last spot. How did you come up with that number?

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It is Walter's number. Search some of his recent posts and you will be able to find the computation. It is roughly based on what record he expects to be necessary to get the 8th seed based on the history of EC playoff finishes and his estimation of our likelihood of reaching that number.

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Walters number huh? Is this the same calculation he uses to come up with Marvin's age?

[bfwolf]

I'm not using Walter's number. I'm using common sense. You guys look at 4.5 games and act like it's not a lot but when you win as infrequently as we do, it's a TON. We have to change from being a team that wins 35% of its games to a team that wins 57% of its games. How often have you seen a team increase its winning percentage by 22% in the 2nd half? You guys can cite injuries til you're blue in the face but the reality is we will continue to have injuries in the 2nd half. Not to mention that while we are 4.5 games back of the current 8th place team, there are several teams in between us and them. We have to play significantly better in the back half than ALL of them. And they all played better than us in the 1st half.

Anybody who is not a total homer and can look at the situation objectively can see our chances are under 1%.

[Guest Walter]

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I'm not using Walter's number. I'm using common sense. You guys look at 4.5 games and act like it's not a lot but when you win as infrequently as we do, it's a TON. We have to change from being a team that wins 35% of its games to a team that wins 57% of its games. How often have you seen a team increase its winning percentage by 22% in the 2nd half? You guys can cite injuries til you're blue in the face but the reality is we will continue to have injuries in the 2nd half. Not to mention that while we are 4.5 games back of the current 8th place team, there are several teams in between us and them. We have to play significantly better in the back half than ALL of them. And they all played better than us in the 1st half.

Anybody who is not a total homer and can look at the situation objectively can see our chances are under 1%.

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I will never understand how people can make the argument for not tanking based upon probability. That argument not only can't fly, it has nubs for arms and legs. The odds are clearly in favor of tanking achieving its desired result. More importantly should either desired result occur, the odds of Oden and next year's team contending are infinitely better than this team next year as it is. Odds do not favor the Bobby Sura contingency, but they are a franchise defeating, win at all franchise costs, I believe in miracles bunch. Wish I had their religion. I'd die having nothing thinking I had it all.

W

[Diesel]

I remember posting that I believed Paul would be ROY. And there were so many post by Walter saying that Paul would be overmatched because of his height that those HSers who had never watched Paul play began to echo the nonsense.

That's why I laugh whenever I see Walter continuously echoing nonesense. Sort of like his current tanking BS...

I notice that Walter has erased his sig file that quoted me on 12/30 saying that once we get healthy, we will be a better team...

Guess what. We're healthier...

5-5 in our last 10...

If things continue, we will pass Milwaukee and NY soon.

[Diesel]

You should know going from Lenny Wilkens last days to Lon Kruger that changing a coach does not change a losing mentality.

Maybe changing teams, but not changing a coach.

Notice Chicago.

They had to give away their whole team before getting back to winning ways. Tim Floyd to Cartwright was not a fix.

However, Eddy Curry/T. Chandler to K. Hinrich/Loul Deng was.

Point of fact: LAC... from about 1986 to 2004.

How many different coaches?

[KB21]

Let's look at the Bulls.

When they gave Scott Skiles that job, he took over a 4-12 basketball team. He went 19-47 in that first year with the Bulls. They finished 23-59 on that season.

In his second season, his Bulls team started the year 2-13 on December 6th. Something started to happen at that point though. Those young players started to get the taste of winning. Plus, they didn't have to deal with a barrage of injuries. By January 22nd, the Bulls had pulled to 19-19. They had a 5 game winning streak, a 7 game winning streak, and then another 5 game winning streak to put themselves at 22-19 by January 27th.