Why wanting to tank does NOT make you a bad fan...

[bumpyphish1]

So, before the season started I bet $50 that the Hawks would win OVER 28.5 games. One more win and I get paid versus losing $50. I still want us to lose every game we have left. If we can somehow finish with the 3rd worst record, then I will be satisfied. Then, if we don't get the pick, then we move on from there with Indy's pick and hopefully some other crafty offseason moves. At least we would have "tried."

That win over Milwaukee is going to be the death of us.

[Eddielives]

I challenge anyone to prove that wanting to tank the rest of THIS season means you are not a fan or are a bad fan. The facts are there for everyone to see.

The only thought process that I will accept for not wanting to tank is the overly idealistic idea that somehow the lightswitch, for lack of a better word, will just suddenly come on if we win a few more games. That is to say that if the coaches, players and anyone involved just all of a sudden figure something out that they haven't been doing with what we have to make our team better. There may be some possibility for this but I've been fooled too many times during the past what, 8 years of losing now!

Wins now are cosmetic only and there's too much of a good chance to land Durant or Oden, which would improve this team on the floor and put excitement back into some of the fanbase that has said screw the Hawks, there is nothing for me to hope for with this team.

So tanking may leave a turn alot of you off and I respect your opinion if you believe that, but don't say me or anyone else who wants to have the best chance at one of the above 2 mentioned prospects is not a true fan. We're all fans and we all have different perspectives on what is the best route to take for this team to get better. Given the continuing ownership debacle, our coaching issues and our general lack of ability and talent in certain areas, I honestly believe that the draft this year is our biggest chance to finally "rise up" to legitimate respectability.

[SmooveTheFuture]

People act like the Hawks have the best luck and a good GM. Do you realize we have the worst GM in sports hands down. This guy has made some awful awful draft picks in the last few years which have really set this franchise back. I wouldnt be surprised if we did happen to maybe get a top 3 pick that BK would pick the wrong player say we got maybe a Durant it would have to be a top 2 pick. We have to trade Marvin then wat are we gonna get for Marvin knowing BK it will be garbage. Im still very skeptical at the Hawks landing a top 3 pick we dont have that kind of luck I just dont see it.

[jjjohnson]

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People act like the Hawks have the best luck and a good GM. Do you realize we have the worst GM in sports hands down. This guy has made some awful awful draft picks in the last few years which have really set this franchise back. I wouldnt be surprised if we did happen to maybe get a top 3 pick that BK would pick the wrong player say we got maybe a Durant it would have to be a top 2 pick. We have to trade Marvin then wat are we gonna get for Marvin knowing BK it will be garbage. Im still very skeptical at the Hawks landing a top 3 pick we dont have that kind of luck I just dont see it.

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Are you crazy ? We have one of the best GMs there is!!!! Josh Smith at 18? Marvin Williams is going to be amazing, and we'll address our PG needs via free agency! Josh Childress is amazing, and Sheldon Williams is going to be a top 5 center when it's all said and done! I expect the hawks to make the playoffs next year. Also, how about getting Joe Johnson, THE ALLSTAR!!!! So we gave away Diaw, but he didn't fit in with our system anyways. He's really not that good if you remember him on the Hawks, it's just that he fits with the Suns ideally, I guess that's what that Phoenix GM Collangilo does. But that's not BKs fault!!!!!!!!!!!!! HRRRRRRRRRRK

[AmishBoy]

I like you enthusiasm and there's nothing wrong with being positive but,

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and Sheldon Williams is going to be a top 5 center when it's all said and done!

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come one now.

[mrhonline]

Hey, if anyone knows what kind of player Shelden will be, it's Joe Johnson.

[AmishBoy]

Joe can see the future now. I guess Este hit him harder than I thought.

[DJlaysitup]

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I like you enthusiasm and there's nothing wrong with being positive but,

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and Sheldon Williams is going to be a top 5 center when it's all said and done!

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come one now.

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Jeez A.B....not too quick on the sarcasm uptake are we?

[AmishBoy]

It's hard to tell around here. You've seen KB21's post. This guy might actually be serious.

[jjjohnson]

I am being serious!

I wish all my fellow Hawk fans would see the light at the end of the tunnel, like i do.

Would you rather have Babcock take Aruaujo in the top 10?

[Diesel]

For all tankers....

When do you decide that you want your team to tank?

Is your vote to tank dependent upon who MIGHT come out??

For instance, let's say that we don't get the pick this year.. but at the same time Oden decides not to come out.

Next year, do we start tanking from the beginning of the season because the draft should contain Oden, Lawson, Hawes, and Mayo in the top 4??

If we do, what are we really saying about the young guys we have here?

As a fan, are you really saying that: "The guys we have here are not that good, so instead of trying to see what they are capable of, I would rather see us get better odds in the lottery?

You do know tht there are no guarantees in the lottery?

I guess my basic question is this: If the ends justify the means as you state, then shouldn't we start the season tanking as soon as the next "great" prospect come along?

[AHF]

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For all tankers....

When do you decide that you want your team to tank?

Is your vote to tank dependent upon who

MIGHT

come out??

For instance, let's say that we don't get the pick this year.. but at the same time Oden decides not to come out.

Next year, do we start tanking from the beginning of the season because the draft should contain Oden, Lawson, Hawes, and Mayo in the top 4??

If we do, what are we really saying about the young guys we have here?

As a fan, are you really saying that: "The guys we have here are not that good, so instead of trying to see what they are capable of, I would rather see us get better odds in the lottery?

You do know tht there are no guarantees in the lottery?

I guess my basic question is this: If the ends justify the means as you state, then shouldn't we start the season tanking as soon as the next "great" prospect come along?

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Since I crossed the line into the tanking pool, I will give you my personal $.02. I don't think tanking at the beginning of a season is even possibly justified for this team. This team gave its shot at winning this year. Once it became clear that we were out of playoff contention (and for me I don't remember the date but I can search my posts a couple weeks back to see when this was) then I think the focus needed to shift to developing young guys and maximizing our lottery odds. (I.e., no 45+ minute games for Tyrone Lue in order to try to win, etc.).

I do think that the decision on if and when you start to tank is based on a combination of the guys expected to enter the draft (the stronger and more shallow the pool of player, the greater the incentive to tank) and the team's chances for playoff success.

At the beginning of a season there is plenty of possibility to make the playoffs or take that next developmental step in winning. However, once a team is out of playoff contention I don't think there is as much to be gained in trying to win and if there is a potentially big payoff in the lottery then tanking may be the best strategic decision for the long-term development of the team.

[Diesel]

If I remember correctly, there were many crying tank tank tank back in december... This season, we've had a rash of injuries that have helped our record be what it is, but if you can cry tank tank tank in december, then what's one more month? It seems to me that there was a portion of those on your side of the fence who never cared what this team could do if healthy, they only wanted to get a better chance in the draft lottery.

Now, when there's nothing to play for, tanking sounds good. However, back when the tank engines got started, we still had a lot to play for.

The cruel lottery will show it's hand again. Hawks might end up 3 and I hope 2.. Just so we can watch Phoenix get the 4th or 5th pick in the draft. Then the tankers will gather around and blame AJ, blame Lue, Blame Woody, blame Smoove... when the overwhelming truth was "NOTHING WAS EVER GUARANTEED".

[Guest Walter]

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Now, when there's nothing to play for, tanking sounds good. However, back when the tank engines got started, we still had a lot to play for.

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I didn't want to say we SHOULD tank in January but it's obvious at this point that I and others were correct. NOBODY wants to tank, but we need(ed) to. Had we tanked properly early, we certainly risk more temporary player unrest, but we also wouldn't have really injured 2 of our 3 best players, might have found a keeper or two amongst our existing younger players of NBDL players (Jeremy Richardson), would have had a bottom 2 team's chance locked up, and if we won (top 3) the lottery would have had all the hope in the world with which to heal the player wounds. Were I a player and Oden or Durant were added to this team, it'd be chicken soup for the soul no matter what went down to get them here.

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The cruel lottery will show it's hand again.

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Again, we're back to HOPE. You are trying to deny hope with superstitious comments about how "cruel" the lottery will be to us. This is just stupid, but that is your way.

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Then the tankers will gather around and blame AJ, blame Lue, Blame Woody, blame Smoove... when the overwhelming truth was "NOTHING WAS EVER GUARANTEED".

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No, I blame BK, ownership, then Woody in that order. BK shouldn't have traded for AJ and chould have made player mandates to save some of these 40+ MPG injured players if not the franchise. Ownership should have made the proper long-term franchise investment. Woody should have bought in or be gone. No player has anything to do with the decision to tank and the exercising of the fluid tank plan.

W

[Diesel]

Click

If nothing else, it proves that you are disloyal to the franchise. Again, Basketball is played from November to May. IN Dec, Walter cries for the season to be tanked...

That tells me that you don't like our team and don't respect our players.

[Guest Walter]

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That tells me that you don't like our team and don't respect our players.

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If you replace "team" with "coach" and "players" with "GM", then I would consider this an accurate statement.

Sometimes your franchise needs some "tough love". Ours does. It doesn't need fans condoning the same team, coach, or GM. Obvious talent, skill, and positional needs persist. Obvious coaching inadequacies exist. Obvious GM incompetence exists. Any desire to overlook any part of that is enabling the current GM, coach, ownership, and players (in that order) to continue to negatively affect this franchise. THAT is being disloyal to the franchise.

All this "unpatriotic fan" BULLSHIT sounds like Senator McCarthy. What a great american he was and what a great Hawk fan you are.

[bfwolf]

One of the things that I think there's a big misunderstanding about is just how difficult it is to come from 4 or 5 games back halfway through the season to make the playoffs if there are 4 or 5 teams in between you and the 8th seed. Not only do you have to play 4 or 5 games better than the 8 seed, but you've got to play 3 games better than the 9th best team, etc. It LOOKS very possible if you don't think about it critically, but on closer analysis it is very VERY hard. That's why some of us realized earlier than others how unlikely it was for us to make the playoffs and therefore disliked playing JJ 40+ minutes a game and trading for Anthony Johnson.