Phoenix deserves to lose

[TroyMcClure]

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So your basic idea is that defenders should be allowed to defend or get as close as they want... It's the offensive players job to avoid all contact? Sorry, that just don't cut it.

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On the play in question, Bowen was on offense. The first part of what you said is true, provided they can get back quickly when someone does something as simple as pivoting and stepping out to create space.

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Right or wrong isn't decided by me playing or not. I've never cheated on women, but I still know it's a wrong thing to do. Giving people a knee to the groin is wrong.

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I'm not questioning your morals. I'm saying you don't understand the rules or how they are interprented.

[Plainview1981]

Well, to me it's wrong to knee people in the groins. It doesn't matter which side of the ball it's on. The action is wrong.

[exodus]

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Hotlanta, I'm not trying to be an @ss, but I know you don't play.

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You aren't trying to be an ass, you are actually doing it. When you make an argument that makes no sense and get called on it you start saying that other people can't/don't play.

Bowen has been in peoples grill for years. The reason he hasn't gotten kneed in nuts isn't because he has super speed. It is because nobody has tried to knee him in the nuts, or karate kick him in the face, or stick their feet under him when he shoots a jumper.

And obviously you need an appointment with the eye doctor. On the Horry play Horry knew Nash was going to get around him so he turned his left shoulder towards Nash. if he had kept moving sideways Nash would have beaten him. There was no reason for him to move his left shoulder forward other than to nail Nash.

[TroyMcClure]

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You aren't trying to be an ass, you are actually doing it. When you make an argument that makes no sense and get called on it you start saying that other people can't/don't play.

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How does what I'm saying not make any sense?

I hate to bust your bubble, but Hotlanta didn't even know what play we were talking about. He had the two confused, I think.

How am I wrong? Does the offense player not have the right to pivot and slowly step across? Prove me wrong. You can't. Please try, though.

Who's being an ass? The whole effing world knows a foul is coming in the Horry matter. I agree, it was a little tough. So what? If you read, which I guess you didn't, my point was about how Nash handled it.

Some of you board old timers can be so stupid. Nobody is always this or always that. I have told less than 10 people on this board that they don't play.Probably less than 5. You really sound like one of them, too. That's why we even know each other. Your arguments generally rely on stats. Seemingly, like you don't even watch the games or players you are talking about.

You talked mad sh!t about how I wouldn't show and all that. Blah, Blah. I have been complimentary of you so many times. Yet, you are just a jerk, time and again. Wrong, as well.

Guess you don't like Bruce Bowen?

[exodus]

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I have told less than 10 people on this board that they don't play.Probably less than 5.

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You did it to me several times. and you have done it to others more than everyone on this site put together.

Apparently BK was quite a player in the NBA. I guess that means he knows the game much better than you since he can outplay you.

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How am I wrong?

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I guess the refs were wrong calling the foul on Bowen. You must know better than they do.

Nash was crowding him but that doesn't mean Bowen can push him off, whether by hitting him in the nads or the chest. There is absolutely no question that it was a foul even if you believe it wasn't dirty.

[TroyMcClure]

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How am I wrong? Does the offense player not have the right to pivot and slowly step across? Prove me wrong. You can't. Please try, though.

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You have a bad habit of doing this:

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I guess the refs were wrong calling the foul on Bowen. You must know better than they do.

Nash was crowding him but that doesn't mean Bowen can push him off, whether by hitting him in the nads or the chest. There is absolutely no question that it was a foul even if you believe it wasn't dirty.

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I don't care about how a ref interpreted this call. Different refs different calls. Nash flopped and it affected the call. You can't tell me a different ref would not have made a different call. I told you to prove to me that a player does not have the right to pivot and slowly step across with the ball? That's pretty much what I saw.

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There is absolutely no question that it was a foul even if you believe it wasn't dirty.

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We have very different views of what a "foul" is.

Show me the rule.

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I have told less than 10 people on this board that they don't play.Probably less than 5.

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You did it to me several times. and you have done it to others more than everyone on this site put together.

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Exactly what point does this prove? Your math leaves a little to be desired for such a numbers guy like you. More than everyone combined, huh?

You also said I wouldn't show to play you and all that sh!t.

Well much to your surprise, I did. Much to my surprise, you didn't suck as bad as your attitude. ATL Baller, BossTweed and even myself, went out of our way to compliment everyone and talk about how much fun they had. Not you. You were just disrespectful like you always are. It was about "oh, I'm so out of shape, blah, blah". When offered a compliment you responded with something that implied you were even better. If you were trying to come off as self deprecating, it didn't seem like it. We were all out of shape. I hadn't played in weeks. So what? I thought you were a total prick, but when we played, did I get you the ball and play a team game? Yes. I could have took 25 j's.

See, I went out of my way to be nice to a guy who had been a total prick to me and never apologized for questioning the honesty of my words. I'm not scared of anyone on the court, EX. I thought you might get that. I hadn't played in quite a while when we met. I still showed, played quality D on bigger, faster, stronger, players and won more than I lost. So, when I say Joe, who has dunked like 10 times in his life, should take it to the rack more and take less "floaters", I expect people who play the game to understand what I'm talking about, for example. You just change your mind to fit the opposite side of an argument. You are so hard headed. You know there is a huge difference between what Joe does and what D-Wade does when they go in the paint. Yet, you still argued. Go to 82 games and show me how great of a free throw shooter Joe is, or how many dunks he had last year?

And yes, depending on the level of the conversation, I think, if you play, or have ever played, is a very signifigant factor when judging someone's opinion on the game. The best way, and only true way to know about something is to do it or experience it. How do you argue with that? What is your argument? That I may offend a 12 year old? All I'm saying is to go pick up a ball if you want to argue about the game. People can learn a game that they have never played. It's really tough in a free flowing game with call variations like basketball, but it can be done. It will take you about 20 years, though.

[TroyMcClure]

Steve Nash blew his best chance to be a champ. They could have beaten Utah and any team from the East. The matchup with the Jazz would have been favorable. I don't know if Utah could run with the Suns. Nash did not handle the end of Game 4 well, and it cost his team. Imagine if he hops up, looks at the banch and tells them it's cool. Amare and Boris play in Game 5, maybe they don't collapse, and we have a different series outcome.

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Normally Nash is cool and in charge. Not that night. He jumped up and wanted to fight Robert Horry. Please. Here's the key, I think. The Suns were winning. Had they not been ahead, Nash doesn't think he's such a tough guy.

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Nash put bravado before pragmatism, if only the once, to the detriment of his career and the Suns season.

[exodus]

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I don't care about how a ref interpreted this call. Different refs different calls.

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Did you see any of the Spurs quoted as saying it wasn't a foul? Did any of the studio analysts say it wasn't a foul?

Only one person that i know of is claiming it wasn't a foul and that's you. You can't push someone backwards when you have picked up your dribble. It isn't that complicated.

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Nash flopped and it affected the call.

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Nash flopped after getting hit in the nuts?

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Exactly what point does this prove? Your math leaves a little to be desired for such a numbers guy like you. More than everyone combined, huh?

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Yes. You are the only one on this site that says other people don't/can't play when you are arguing. it is completely assinine. Whether or not you play pickup ball has absolutely no relevance to discussing the Hawks. Period.

[TroyMcClure]

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And obviously you need an appointment with the eye doctor. On the Horry play Horry knew Nash was going to get around him so he turned his left shoulder towards Nash. if he had kept moving sideways Nash would have beaten him. There was no reason for him to move his left shoulder forward other than to nail Nash.

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I was just watching Rome is Burning and saw that Big Shot Bob was defending himself on the Nash foul. Said it was a basic foul, he bumped him and he would do it again. One of the panelists defended him as well. Jokingly asked if anyone remembered the 80's. I'll stand with Mr. Horry on this issue.

Nash came off as a baby to me. The whole thing was blown out of proportion because of the way Nash reacted. He was dribbling like it was a soccer pitch. He got what he deserved. How exactly did he get hurt? Shouldn't he have to gauge Horry's size, compared to his, and what might happen if he floors it trying to make a tough angle, when Horry is in a foul situation? Geez!

[AHF]

IMO, the whole thing wasn't blown out of proportion because of how Nash reacted. It was because Amare and Boris got suspended and the huge ramification that had for game 5. If Amare and Boris just get a verbal warning, there is no big issue here - just some posturing and everyone settling down to finish out the game.

It was a big deal because it was Horry's foul that led to a huge advantage for the Spurs that most people intuitively feel was a very wrong result.

Also, there is no justification for giving Horry a 2 game suspension for that foul, IMO. It wasn't a violent flagrant foul or anything. He got the suspension for the same reason - Amare and Boris got suspended and it seemed wrong for Horry not to get a longer suspension than they did.

[exodus]

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I'll stand with Mr. Horry on this issue.

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LOL once again you show that you can't make a coherent argument. Horry said it was a foul. The refs called a foul. Now you are trying to say you agree with the ref's call?

That flies in the face of this nonsense you were saying earlier.

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I don't care about how a ref interpreted this call. Different refs different calls. Nash flopped and it affected the call. You can't tell me a different ref would not have made a different call. I told you to prove to me that a player does not have the right to pivot and slowly step across with the ball? That's pretty much what I saw.

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[TroyMcClure]

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LOL once again you show that you can't make a coherent argument. Horry said it was a foul. The refs called a foul. Now you are trying to say you agree with the ref's call?

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What are you talking about? Horry fouled the man. The whole idea that Bowen, Horry, etc. play dirty is what I'm not in agreement with. Horry was basically saying Nash was being a b!tch. That's what I've been saying. He said he would do it again. I assume, Nash would be even angrier if it happened again, eh? I personally do not think Bowen made a foul on his play. What's so hard to understand?

You seem to think Bowen is dirty. I don't. I think it's nonsense. A lot of these guys need to grow up. They also need to watch like a thousand tapes of games till about 98'. This softening of the game is sickening to me. Too many kids playing a man's game. They become entitled as children, getting huge money at 18, 19, 20. They always think they are right and never learn to take a foul, etc. They are 6'9" and have skills, but there are a lot of guys that really have no sense of history or knowledge of the game. Nash isn't one of those. He's just a soccer playing Canadian. There is no dispute. The game looks a lot different now. If you think it looks better, you need help.

[exodus]

LOL i realized the mixup but it was too late to edit it i apologize. Enjoy it, it doesnt happen often.

So Nash purposely dove into the scorers table to draw an intentional foul? is that what you are trying to say?

As far as Bowen not being dirty name one other player in league history who has karate kicked a player in the face during play. Bowen has done it twice.