Phoenix deserves to lose

[TroyMcClure]

I am so glad the Spurs kept playing hard last night. Watching Parker find Bowen for the go ahead 3, with Nash futily leaping for the shot, was as good as it gets. This is what the NBA used to be all about. The smarter, tougher team won.

It's hard for me to like the Suns, outside of Bell. I enjoy watching Nash play. As a short white guy, I even have a certain amount of pride in what he has accomplished. Having said that... He is so soft and Euro. Over this series he went down in my book, big time. The Bruce Bowen knee to the groin play is justified. Bowen has a right to his space. This is not soccer. Nash was all up on him and he got what he deserved. I think it's a joke to hear some of these pundits say it was cheap. That's another argument, though. The flop on Robert Horry was so weak. Nash had no angle. What did he expect Horry to do? Not foul him?! I don't mind flopping. John Stockton is like almost my favorite player ever. Stockton wouldn't have gotten up and acted like a punk, though. That's what Nash did. He normally would have immediately turned to his bench and motioned that he was fine, thus averting any fight or even a possibility of one. Something like that. Normally Nash is cool and in charge. Not that night. He jumped up and wanted to fight Robert Horry. Please. Here's the key, I think. The Suns were winning. Had they not been ahead, Nash doesn't think he's such a tough guy. His desire to be tough, just once, may have cost his team any chance at winning. I think it definitely has.

Oh, his stupid double pump, trying to get the foul while taking a 3 with his foot on the line, while there was still time on the clock, end of game 5 killer, didn't help matters.

[macdaddy]

I'm not quite the Suns hater that you are, but there is someting about them I don't like. Notice there isn't anymore Suns trolling on here now that Diaw is just counting his money and the Suns are heading for another early exit. Of course, it seriously sux for them that they were without Amare. That's not good for the nba.

[Plastic Man]

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The Bruce Bowen knee to the groin play is justified. Bowen has a right to his space.

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You must be joking. It's called defense. There's no need for that cheap shot. Bowen doesn't need space--he can't do anything with the ball anyway.

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The flop on Robert Horry was so weak. Nash had no angle. What did he expect Horry to do? Not foul him?!

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Watch it again. Horry leaned, lowered, then extended his elbow. He was frustrated from licking the floor on the previous play. Nash did flop but only after he hit the floor.

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I don't mind flopping.

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Obviously you don't if you're defending the Spurs.

You think cheap shots + dirty play = toughness? This series isn't over yet. What goes around comes around.

[Popeye]

I am so glad that the Spurs will win, they are a better team and i am tired of those Phx fans obssesion with Diaw.

Suck on that Suns@!!

also Duncan is waaayy better of a player than Amare. Amare doesn't even play D at times. Duncan is one of the best big man ever.

[Traceman]

I honestly couldn't care less who wins the series but blaming Nash for the thuggish actions of Bowen and Horry is ridiculous.

There is NEVER a justification for kneeing someone in the groin INTENTIONALLY unless you are in a fight. Bowen is a hard-nosed player who crosses the line from time to time and he DEFINITELY crossed the line on that play. He also crossed it when he intentionally kicked Stoudemire in the Achilles.

As for Horry, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing. He was frustrated because he missed a shot and so he took the opportunity to take a cheap shot on Nash. I don't think he was really trying to hurt him but he was CLEARLY trying to foul him HARD. Blaming Nash for wanting to retaliate is ridiculous. If Horry hadn't acted like a little biatch, there would have been no need to retaliate. I'd like to see him try to do that to Kurt Thomas or Stoudemire. That was a biatch move.

All that said, I wish the NBA would just handle altercations on a case by case basis. I know that makes it difficult but I don't think there should have been any suspensions in this matter. Horry should have received a Flagrant 2 and a fine and nothing should have happened to Stoudemire or Diaw. Instead, the NBA had to suspend Horry for 2 games to "even up" the situation as much as they could. I don't think he would have been suspended at all if Stoudemire and Diaw had not come on the court.

[ncthompson11]

"Stockton wouldn't have gotten up and acted like a punk, though"

nash was standing up for himself and shows he is not soft like you said. and how do you only like raja bell? hes proboaly my least favorite guy of the ones who play.

[TroyMcClure]

Traceman, if you play defense in someone's grill like that, something will happen. Note Bowen merely stepped forward with a pivot foot down. You can't rotate on a pivot foot now?

The crap you are saying about Horry is ridiculous. I remember him fouling Shaq hard and smiling about it 20 years ago in an Alabama - LSU matchup. To think he wouldn't "pick" on someone his own size, is naive to say the least. You must not know much about Horry. He's about the nicest guy imagineable, and plays the game the "right" way.

The play where Nash was out of control, going for an impossible angle? How was that not justified. He knew they were trying to foul. He still floored it and dribbled as fast as he could for the scorer's table. Stupid.

I notice you didn't talk about how he cost his team, only trying to defame the Spurs.

I didn't blame Nash for the Spurs actions. Read again. I just said they weren't man enough to step up.

[exodus]

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Traceman, if you play defense in someone's grill like that, something will happen.

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Bowen has been playing defense like that his entire career and that is one of the reasons he is considered a dirty player. He crowds people and sticks his feet underneath them when they shoot a jumper. Then guys come down on his feet and turn their ankles.

Time and again Kerr has commented on the fact that Bowen constantly crowds people making it hard for them to make their normal moves.

I haven't seen anyone knee Bowen in the nuts even though they definitely should. Or maybe karate kick him in the face like he did to Mclvaine or Wally.

[ncthompson11]

i dont see how nash was out of control. he was trying to beat horry down the sideline but horry stepped in the way and kneed him.

[Plainview1981]

Traceman, if you play defense in someone's grill like that, something will happen. Note Bowen merely stepped forward with a pivot foot down. You can't rotate on a pivot foot now?{/quote]

That's all Bowen does. Get up on offensive players as much as he can. It's funny that it's ok for Bowen to do it, but anybody does it to him they're invading his space.

Sorry man, but you're being a 100% hater and nothing else.

[TroyMcClure]

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Bowen has been playing defense like that his entire career and that is one of the reasons he is considered a dirty player.

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Exactly, Ex. Were you trying to make my point for me? How many times have you seen Bowen get mad? It's not dirty to play hard. Just reverse the play, and I guarantee you Bowen would jump back and avoid the knee.

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Time and again Kerr has commented on the fact that Bowen constantly crowds people making it hard for them to make their normal moves.

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Your point being? Has Kerr ever said that he shouldn't do it, or that he wouldn't want Bowen on his team? By the way, isn't "making it hard for them", the point of defense? Also, Kerr isn't just going to call people out. He's acting as a professional commentator. He's not Charles Barkley. I'm sure he hated guys like Bowen. Given his game, he would have to. That doesn't mean he thinks it's cheap or he doesn't respect him. If he feels this way, I've never heard it.

The Suns are coming off as babies. This post was not about Bowen. It was about Nash not being the leader they need him to be... when they need it the most. I've always been impressed with Nash. I just think he blew his big chance to win a ring. They could have won game 5 if they weren't short a 1st team NBAer. Amare is his own man, but I think Nash could have avoided this.

They need to stop crying and try to execute in the half court set at the end of game 6. Something they looked woefully unprepared to do in game 5.

I'm not saying Nash is the Devil or Chris Webber or something. I'm saying he's not John Stockton. C'mon, back to back MVP awards? Stockton was *hyperbole alert* 2x the player Nash is. Did he get two MVP awards? Nash needs to grow up, count his cash, and play like a man. If he wants a ring, that is.

[TroyMcClure]

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That's all Bowen does. Get up on offensive players as much as he can. It's funny that it's ok for Bowen to do it, but anybody does it to him they're invading his space.

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I've never heard a peep from Bowen.

[Plainview1981]

Saying the Suns are being crybabies doesn't make Bowen correct. You don't knee people in the groins. That's not what sports are about. PERIOD. You have no argument there.

You can say the Suns are wimps. Hard fouls and knee's to the groins are two totally different things.

[Plainview1981]

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That's all Bowen does. Get up on offensive players as much as he can. It's funny that it's ok for Bowen to do it, but anybody does it to him they're invading his space.

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I've never heard a peep from Bowen.

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Why would you? His only job on offense is to hit open shots. If you think he wouldn't be pissed if someone gave him a knee there is something wrong with ya.

[TroyMcClure]

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i dont see how nash was out of control. he was trying to beat horry down the sideline but horry stepped in the way and kneed him.

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Watch the play again. Nash knows the foul is coming in that situation. Only in a regular moment, with no need to foul, could he even think about making that angle. He was dribbling full speed for a reason. He knew it would be close. Being unprepared for contact in that situation is being naive. His actions after the play are what bother me. Seriously, what did he think would happen? He should have been more balanced and none of this happens. He doesn't fall dow, etc. Why is he afraid to hit free throws, anyway?

[TroyMcClure]

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That's all Bowen does. Get up on offensive players as much as he can. It's funny that it's ok for Bowen to do it, but anybody does it to him they're invading his space.

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I've never heard a peep from Bowen.

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Why would you? His only job on offense is to hit open shots. If you think he wouldn't be pissed if someone gave him a knee there is something wrong with ya.

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Just reverse the play, and I guarantee you Bowen would jump back and avoid the knee.

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[TroyMcClure]

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Saying the Suns are being crybabies doesn't make Bowen correct. You don't knee people in the groins. That's not what sports are about. PERIOD. You have no argument there.

You can say the Suns are wimps. Hard fouls and knee's to the groins are two totally different things.

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Hotlanta, I'm not trying to be an @ss, but I know you don't play. You've never claimed to, anyway. Bowen did not make a quick motion. He was telling Nash to back off. He kept a left pivot and stepped over to create space. The knee and the crotch are in the same place. I'm a short guy. I've busted one of my teeth 3 times. My face happens to be in line with a taller person's elbows. That's not their fault. If I'm going to scrap in the paint, that may happen. That's how grown men play basketball. Nash should not have been flopping in that situation. He should have been ready to jump back. PERIOD. He wanted Bowen to foul him. Too bad for him, his nuts got in the way.

[Plainview1981]

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Just reverse the play, and I guarantee you Bowen would jump back and avoid the knee.

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Nobody should have to worry about taking a knee to the groin. Just like in baseball you don't throw at peoples head. You don't use your helmet to ram people in football... You don't throw at people's head in baseball, and you don't knee people in the nuts. What's so hard to understand?

The action is wrong. It has nothing to do with who would avoid contact and who wouldn't.

[TroyMcClure]

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Just reverse the play, and I guarantee you Bowen would jump back and avoid the knee.

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Nobody should have to worry about taking a knee to the groin. Just like in baseball you don't throw at peoples head. You don't use your helmet to ram people in football... You don't throw at people's head in baseball, and you don't knee people in the nuts. What's so hard to understand?

The action is wrong. It has nothing to do with who would avoid contact and who wouldn't.

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Bowen did not make a quick motion. He was telling Nash to back off. He kept a left pivot and stepped over to create space.

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[Plainview1981]

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Saying the Suns are being crybabies doesn't make Bowen correct. You don't knee people in the groins. That's not what sports are about. PERIOD. You have no argument there.

You can say the Suns are wimps. Hard fouls and knee's to the groins are two totally different things.

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Hotlanta, I'm not trying to be an @ss, but I know you don't play. You've never claimed to, anyway. Bowen did not make a quick motion. He was telling Nash to back off. He kept a left pivot and stepped over to create space. The knee and the crotch are in the same place. I'm a short guy. I've busted one of my teeth 3 times. My face happens to be in line with a taller person's elbows. That's not their fault. If I'm going to scrap in the paint, that may happen. That's how grown men play basketball. Nash should not have been flopping in that situation. He should have been ready to jump back. PERIOD. He wanted Bowen to foul him. Too bad for him, his nuts got in the way.

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Right or wrong isn't decided by me playing or not. I've never cheated on women, but I still know it's a wrong thing to do. Giving people a knee to the groin is wrong.

{quote]Bowen did not make a quick motion. He was telling Nash to back off.

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So your basic idea is that defenders should be allowed to defend or get as close as they want... It's the offensive players job to avoid all contact? Sorry, that just don't cut it.

And if that's how "grown men play basketball" how come almost nobody agrees with you?