Two punks talking.

[Diesel]

OK, I'm tired of this already...

Quote:

---

"Oh yeah, I've talked to Marvin a lot," Wright said. "Marvin said the rookie season is tough. It's hard to get adjusted to the long, long season. Especially if you're on a team that's not winning. And it's even tougher when you come from a place like Carolina, where you're used to winning all the time.

But when you make an adult decision you have to be prepared to deal with it."

---

Sounds like Marvin has some regrets about leaving the comfort of TarhillNation. Well somebody text Marvin and tell him that we didn't draft him so that he can become comfortable with letting other people carry him (like they did at UNC). We drafted him because somebody thought he was a competitor and would make our losing team better.

Somebody find a trade package for Marvin, Lue, and Lo.

I say we trade them to the Lakers for Kwame Brown and #19.

Kobe won't put up with that s---.

[Bulldog]

I think we could get more than Kwame and #19 for those 3. I would prefer Camby and next year's Denver first rounder. Camby is a defensive monster and would really add a lot in my opinion. It would also give us a vet rather than 2 more young guys, and flexibility next year.

If Marv really said that I revise my Marv is busting out statement. That doesnt sound like a guy who is going to work his butt off to improve.

[Wurider05]

Here we go again........................................

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

Sounds like Marvin has some regrets about leaving the comfort of TarhillNation.

---

It's Tar Heel.

W

[DrReality]

Quote:

---

Here we go again........................................

---

My thoughts exactly. Maybe he should be grounded for a week for making those statements about the Hawks????

Give it up D.

[Bulldog]

Have I missed something? What was wrong with what he said? If Marv has another season without improving next year would it not be better to have had Camby on the team? I agree that if you think he is going to have a big year next year then clearly your answer is no. For me it is concerning if Marv did say that. It suggests he is not going to fight to be "the man" that he was drafted to be.

[Sothron]

I think Marvin is just another guy with athletic talent with zero ambition or drive to take it to the next level. He's already on record saying he doesn't really love basketball, he'd rather play on his X-box. I don't think he will ever be the aggressive player with a good outside range we saw at times at UNC.

[Wurider05]

Typical Diesel anit-Marvin bullshit. There was nothing wrong with what Marvin said. You know that Diesel started this thread to fill his 25-threads-a-day--no-matter-how-stupid quota. What was negative about the comment???

[thesheedera]

He's saying that leaving college early to go to a bottom of the barrel franchise requires you to be mature and to stick to your decision no matter how tough the first year is. What's wrong with that?

I think you're taking way too much creative liberty with spinning this second generation quote to meet your agenda.

You don't think it's a difficult decision for a 19 year old who knows he's not fully prepared for the NBA to make the leap onto a perrenial loser when he can stay in college a little longer, grow and mature with his peers, win a ton of games, become an icon in the eyes of the school's fans?

We all know that Marvin didn;t set out his freshman season to "win" a high draft pick. It was the NBA that wanted Marvin early, the NBA came knocking, and he took the leap of faith.

He's never ONCE said anything negative about the Hawks, playing for the Hawks, the dismal fanbase, the overwhelming number of losses, or the complete incompetence of the coaching staff, management or ownership.

Does he have second thoughts from time to time about his decision? Who wouldn't?

You don't think Joe Johnson ever entertains the thought of what could have happened had he stayed a Sun?

You don't think Josh Smith ever wonders what his career in college could have been like?

The truth is that the second gen quote you throw out actually suggests the opposite. It suggests that Marvin decided to make his jump and be a man about it no matter what, and to not look back.

I think we're lucky that all three of these guys have handled their business with nothing but class when they could be elsewhere doing great things on great teams. That's a credit to Woody as well, one of his best qualities has been keeping the team united somehow.

It's so odd to me that you would take this quote and use it against him. Marvin's mentoring a fellow alum and helping him get prepared for what could be a very difficult rookie season. He's encouraging him to be mature about it and tough it out.

Where's the beef here?

[Vafan]

Well said.

[Diesel]

I never paid attention to that?

What does it mean?

[Diesel]

IF I worked for you at your company selling widgets. I left the University of Maryland as a widget major because you had a very good job offer for me. I get to your company and your widget technology is about 2 generations back.

One day, we're recruiting at the University of Maryland and I tell all of these Widget majors... Well, It's been difficult working for thesheedera company, but when you make adult decisions, you have to live with it.

Sheed.. I want you to take it from 2 perspectives (if You can)..

1. As the company owner, how do you feel about what I just said?

2. As a Maryland Terpin Widget Major, how do you feel about what I just said?

[thesheedera]

Quote:

---

Sheed.. I want you to take it from 2 perspectives (if You can)..

1. As the company owner, how do you feel about what I just said?

2. As a Maryland Terpin Widget Major, how do you feel about what I just said?

---

1. I feel fine about it, I'd rather you be honest than try to make it something that it isn't. It's well known that my widget company is a technological dinosaur but that we ahve a full staff of young widget makers who have great promise to take our company to the top, and becuase we're picking the creme of the crop from university programs, the money is VERY VERY VERY good. Live as a widget maker has a ton of advantages and luxuries, but it requires a young man leaving college early to be extremely mature, to not look back, and to stay strong when the going gets tough. The job I'm offering is a difficult one, but the payoff is huge, and the upside of being with my company as it goes from dinosaur to the next big thing offers a young man enough incentive to take the plunge.

I'd rather that young man have realistic expectations that when he comes to work for me there will be tough times and we'll work him extremely hard, and that he needs to be a professional about it and stuck to his guns. He will be greatly compensated for his hard work, his sweat and frustration, and as our group of widget makers grows and develops the company into what we believe it can be, he'll know that every bead of sweat was worth it.

2. I feel excited and nervous, and I'm just thanking my lucky stars that I'm in a position to go do what I love to do at the highest possible level, take care of my family for generations,a nd be a part of an exciting young group of brilliant widget makers. I'm tentative and scared at times, but knowing that you made it through and having your encouragement helps me stay focused and stay calm.

Quote:

---

Sheed.. I want you to take it from 2 perspectives (if You can)..

---

and no need to treat me like a child

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

It's well known that my widget company is a technological dinosaur but that

we ahve a full staff of young widget makers who have great promise to take our company to the top

, and becuase we're picking the creme of the crop from university programs, the money is VERY VERY VERY good.

---

From the way I see it you miss the main component of this working. ENTHUSIASM. If your young widget makers talk about the problems and never about the good things, then they will never amount to much with your company. In the conversation, Brandan was quoted about the problems of coming out. Did you here Brandan say anything about how Marvin talked about loving the game, loving being on a team, loving the fact that he has an opportunity every night to do what 99% of the guys who play basketball in college can't!

IF I own the company, I need positivity and I need enthusiasm. Even if we have bad circumstances. You ever notice that Good GMs trade a player once the player loses his enthusiasm for being on the team? Do you wonder why Paul Pierce and Pau Gasol are on the blocks right now?? It's not because they're injured. It's because they have lost their desire to be on that team competing.

What Marvin said sounds to me like he has some second thoughts about leaving Carolina and that losing is something he's not equipped to deal with. Hell, nobody likes to lose, but when you're the #1 pick 2nd in the draft, you need to be able to do something about it, not just talk about it.

[thesheedera]

WE DON'T KNOW THEIR ENTIRE CONVERSATION DIESEL!!!!!!

You're reading way too much into a single clip from a second hand account of a private conversation, or conversations.

Do you really believe that a single sentence that Brandan says that Marvin said can possible contain a complete and accurate snapshot of Marvin's entire emotional spectrum on how he feels about his decision to play for the Hawks, his experienece as an NBA pro, his feelings about the team he has around him?

We don't even know what that quote was in response to. Is it about the decision to leave early? Is it about being a Hawk? Is it about being a rookie? Is it about being a teenager in a man's profession?

We don't know. So stop reading into it what makes your agenda look more solid.

[Diesel]

Let's say Brandan came to Marvin saying: Tell me about coming out early.

Marvin says: Well, it's not like being at UNC. When you come out, you have to get used to the 82 game schedule. It's really hard doing all that and playing on a losing team, but when you make adult decisions you have to live with it.

That's an understandable conversation, however, it's laced with REGRET...

It's basically like he's saying, If I could do it all over again....

In fact, I don't think there's any context that you can use those words and it doesn't = to regret.

Dude, I just bought a new car. It's great, Candy Apple red, it has gets from zero to 60 in 3.8 second. It's sleek. The only thing is that it eats gas like nobody's business. I hate the fact that it is so hard on gas, but when you make adult decisions, you have to live with it.

Try with with me Sheed. Try to use those words in a context that is not laced with regret? You can't. It's regretful words. I don't know how much Marvin regrets. Maybe he regrets until payday. However, I would like to see more enthusiasm than regret.

If Smoove came up talking about how he should have gone to Indiana if just for one year, i would want to trade him. We didn't draft him to cater to his every want. We drafted him so that he could help us!

[Swatguy]

Diesel,we do now know Brandon Wright is not the pick. There is no way Brandon And Marvin will be both on this team. Woody dont like punks,thats why he rides these guys so hard. The Hawks management do Like nice guys though.

Difference is: Josh Smith wants a triple-double each and every game. He wants it not for his stats but to win. JJ will play 48 minutes a game, not for his stats but to win. Finally Woody got inside Shelden's head and he responded appropriately. Salim could have been traded but he is the most competitive dude in uniform.

Marvin gotta want to win. Not comfortable but to lay down his body and mind for the cause.

I would love to see Marvin well in Milwaukee and Noah in Atlanta.

[Sothron]

Just to add, I don't see how anyone can read that blurb and not see that Marvin was expressing some kind of regret. I don't want to read too much into that but it definitely reads like he is expressing regret over his decision to leave college early and be drafted by the Hawks.

[Diesel]

That's the thing.

You got to want to win. I don't get all that upset with Smoove or even Salim when they have a fit because those guys are competitors.

However, Marvin is a ham and egger. The guy who just goes out and does his job and goes home... I say that because I haven't seen anything different in what Marvin does now and what he's always done. Marvin still shoots set shots from the midrange. He still goes in and gets his shot blocked.

Smoove was very raw when we got him. All he could do was Dunk and block shots. He's added an outside shot. Dribbling. Passing. Confidence to his game.

When JJ got into the league, he was a passive guy. While at Phoenix, a standstill jumper. After his second year here, He's anything we need. He's picking up stuff.

I want the guy with Alonzo Morning desire. Not that he plays like Morning, but he wants it. The guy who will cry like KG cries because he wants to win so badly. The desire is missing from Marvin. In fact, it's never been there. You know when I really knew that Marvin lacked desire. It was during training camp, his first year. Marvin spoke to reporters about how hard Salim Works and how he was in awe of Salim. Hello, you were pick 1st round #2. Salim picked 2nd round. Why are you in Awe of Salim. Go out and be your own competitive person. Work with him. Try to get on his level. The ride is over. May, Felton, and McCants are gone. They are not carrying you anymore. It's time for you to step up!

[thesheedera]

What Sekou says Brandan said Marvin said doesn't necessarily suggest regret. It suggests that a teenager making adult decisions about life needs to be a man and face challenges like a man, and grow up a heck of a lot faster than most 19 year old college kids that he's used to being around all the time.

Your car buying analogy doesn't really fit. These players aren't buying a car, they're making life altering decisions at a very young age with huge consequences. Decisions anyone would love to have the opportunity to make, but decisions that are still extremely difficult.

Every decision has pros and cons. I've never read a single thing that suggests that Marvin is unhappy with his decision. He's only said that he's lving the life he chose and even though it's had it's challenges and frustrations, he's being an adult about it. This is a single excerpt from what may be hours and hours of friend to friend conversation, and it's filtered through a journalist and a 19 year old's account of the conversation(s). It doesn't represent Marvin's complete set of feelings about it, and it's extremely unfair to treat it like it does.

There wasn't anything in the Sekou from Brandan from Marvin account (it's not even a direct quote, it's Brandan's account of what he says Marvin said!) that includes enthusiasm. But that doesn't mean that the person it's attributable to doesn't have enthusiasm.

Let's assume I have a friend who has just finished his first two years as a young heart surgeon that skipped his residency years after completing med school early at Johns Hopkins. His med school days were full of really hard work but also really fun times and relatively little responsibility compared to being a heart surgeon.

Now he's with an upstart cardiology unit at a growing hospital that's among the world's best 32 cardiology programs. He had no say in the hospital that selected him, but as a med school student his performace and his perceived potential helped him qualify for the most elite placement program that guaruntees that he would be the second highest paid surgeon among his age group and that he would go to a hospital that has one of the 32 elite cardiology programs, representing the very best of the best in the world. However, agreeing to go into this program means that he has no say in where he goes, and there's a good chance that he'll go to a unit that needs him to step right in and become one of their top surgeons almost right away. He'll face pressure and challenges unlike anything he's ever dealt with before, he'll basically skip 5-10 years of the normal development curve and miss out on the gradual gwoing process most surgeons go through.

The unit that selected him has had some growing pains but he's a huge part of the future of the program at an extremely young age. It's a very demanding and difficult job, but this is what he's always wanted to do.

I've already qualified for the same program and I'm being selected in the next month or so and I don't know yet where I'll be next year, but I know that I'll be compensated similar to my friend and I'll be doing surgery on patients long before anyone my age is supposed to. I also know that it's likely that I'll go to a program that needs a lot of improvement to move up the rankings of the top 32 in the world, and that I'll be expecetd to produce almost right away to get us there. This is something that almost no one else in the world ever gets to do, and I'm gonna do the same thing as my friend.

I talk to you and among the things we discuss I mention that:

"I talk to my friend all the time, and he says that that the first year is tough. It's hard to get adjusted to the long, long hours and no holidays or summer break. Especially if you're in an upstart program that's not finished growing yet. While it's on the most elite level, it's not nearly as successful yet as most of the 31 other programs. And it's even tougher when you come from a place like Johns Hopkins where you're used to being successful at everything you do, scoring the highest grades and getting the tops honors and awards and being recognized throughout teh country for your accomplishments. But when you make an adult decision you have to be prepared to deal with it."

If I said that to you, would you assume that my friend regrets his decision and would you feel certain that he's not the kind of surgeon you want helping grow your hospital's program into the elite among the elite?

Is that single thing that I tell you enough to know what my friend thinks about his job, his opportunity, his liveliehood, his attitude towards everyday, his vision for his hospital's future and his own future, his fellow doctors in his program, his director, his excitement about the coming year's challenges? Can my brief retelling of my conversation with you give you any insight whatsoever into my friend's level of enthusiasm for his job or the kind of man he is inside?

It's beyond ridiculous to take a singular second hand, really third hand comment and make a definite judgement on the sayer's attitude, emotions and perspecvtive.

Brandan's already made his decision and he can't go back on it. When I read that article I see that Brandan's leaning on Marvin's words as a positive thing, as encouragement for a huge challenge, unlike any other he's ever faced in his extremely young life. It doesn't in any way suggest that Marvin would like to change anything about his decision, nor does it suggest that he's not enthusiastic about his place in life and his situation as a Hawk.