Why the heck don't we run this lineup more often?

[DavidSomerset]

JJ

Chill

Marvin

Smoove

Zaza (or insert Horford)

Last year, this was our best line-up in terms of +- vs. the other team when they're on the court (+54)

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607ATL2.HTM

If this is our most efficient line-up for outscoring the opponent, I think it's foolish they don't play together more often.

[ncthompson11]

That should have been our lineup last year since our pgs were terrible. This year law should get the minutes at point along with another guy in a trade or FA hopefully.

[Final_quest]

Not sure how often all of those guys were healthy at the same time. Probably 40 games max.

[frosgrim]

Because Joe isn't a point guard. He has a very hard time handling the small-quick pgs in the NBA. Plus, it puts too much pressure on him to do everything on offense. Yes, for short spurts that line-up is very productive offensively, the defense is not as good though.

I think, baring a trade, our most productive line-up this year will be

Law

JJ

Marvin

Smoove

Horford

but that won't occur often until probably January.

[DavidSomerset]

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Because Joe isn't a point guard. He has a very hard time handling the small-quick pgs in the NBA. Plus, it puts too much pressure on him to do everything on offense. Yes, for short spurts that line-up is very productive offensively, the defense is not as good though.

I think, baring a trade, our most productive line-up this year will be

Law

JJ

Marvin

Smoove

Horford

but that won't occur often until probably January.

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You can't argue with the numbers...That was the MOST EFFICIENT line-up on the floor last year...In spite of your personal opinion.

I was surprised when I saw that bc I figured Joe would get burned by other PG's as well, but we should have absolutely done that more.

[frosgrim]

Numbers can very easily hide realities of how the game was going. JJ just isn't a point. Having him play the point for extended period slows him down for when we need him at the end of games. As I said its very effective for short periods of time, but you can't do it all the time. as it wears JJ out.

So I am not arguing that it wasn't efficient, the numbers just tell the whole story.

[vdunkndunk]

I actually would bet that most of the time Childress was playing point in that lineup. Remember, he actually did pretty well there for a stretch of the season after Lue went and Speedy went down. And I think they played some zone defenses to take advantage of all that length and hide the lack of quickness.

[Hatertots]

Yeah, that 5 man group also outproduced opposing 5 mans in 12 of the 18 games they ran it (total of 113 minutes floor time). It makes sense that if you replace one of our horribly non-productive guards (Lue, Claxton) with Childress, a very productive guard, the team is going to tend to play better.

Looking at the list in total, the rotations that outperform their opponents and post a positive differential tend to feature the JJ-Chill-Smoove core. That core produced three of the highest point differentials (+54, +20, +18) and winning percentages (66%, 66%, 64%) and two of them featured Joe at the point and Childress at SG (the other had Claxton at PG).

That core also was a part of two losing Hawks matrices, although very competitive ones, posting differentials of -7 and -6 and win% of 50% and 36%. In both cases, Lue manned the PG position.

Which guard position maximizes Joe's strengths really isn't the issue in my opinion. It's safe to say he's a better SG than PG. Rather, the overwhelming point that these statistics drive home is that when the Hawks get Joe and the Joshes on the floor at the same time they win. Accomplishing that requires either that Joe plays PG or that Chill plays and Marvin sits.

Injuries permitting hopefully they'll be running those guys out there a whole lot more often this season than they were able to last season, however they have to manage it.

[mrhonline]

Small sample size.

[Nicholasp27]

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Not sure how often all of those guys were healthy at the same time. Probably 40 games max.

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u mean 14 games?

[exodus]

Quote:

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JJ

Chill

Marvin

Smoove

Zaza (or insert Horford)

Last year, this was our best line-up in terms of +- vs. the other team when they're on the court (+54)

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obviously those guys are our best players so if you put them on the floor it makes sense that they do better than other lineups with weaker players on the floor.

[Hatertots]

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Small sample size.

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Which sample size are you referring to, MrH? The sample size of that particular 5 man lineup?

Admittedly, 113 minutes is a small sample but I don't think it's a stretch to say that when the Hawks, or any team for that matter, field their best players they maximize their chances of winning. And no matter which Hawks a person rates as 1st 2nd and 3rd best, a lineup of JJ/Chill/Smoove/MW/Pachulia probably includes them all (unless you're Candice Parker).

[TroyMcClure]

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Quote:

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JJ

Chill

Marvin

Smoove

Zaza (or insert Horford)

Last year, this was our best line-up in terms of +- vs. the other team when they're on the court (+54)

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obviously those guys are our best players so if you put them on the floor it makes sense that they do better than other lineups with weaker players on the floor.

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Tell that to AtLaS. Joe isn't a pg, so we shouldn't play him there, even though the team is more productive.

All this crap about he can't run, defend with pg's is absurd. All we do now is play a weak zone, anyway. Can anyone honestly say Joe can't guard a pg... in a zone defense?

We've also looked good at times with Smoove at 3. In fact, I'm pretty sure our 4 and 1 start had Shelden producing at the 4 and Smoove at the 3. But who cares, AtLaS and the guys say he's not a 3, so regardless of production, he's not a 3. Absolute stupidity.

[exodus]

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Tell that to AtLaS. Joe isn't a pg, so we shouldn't play him there,

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Actually he is right.

Just because that lineup did better than our other lineups doesn't mean we should play without a pg. What it really means is that our point guards sucked. The only time we got good play from a pg was the first few weeks of the season from Lue.