Marvin, Chillz got skills, but can they 'lead'?

[HAWKS1986]

..if the answer is I don't know or no.. then the Hawks need to consider packaging one or both of these players in a trade..

Marvin has potential, but he was more of a 'side show' on a very good North Carolina team..Chillz was more of a 'glue guy' at Stanford who had some good games, but wasn't a real impact player who can take over games..

If the Hawks want to take that next step, we have to find players who are not 'afraid' to lead-- especially in the final six minutes of a game..THOSE FINAL MINUTES DECIDE WHETHER THE HAWKS ARE A PLAYOFF TEAM..

Marvin has been with the Hawks two years. Chillz has been with the Hawks THREE YEARS..Can anyone on this board tell me how many GAME WINNING SHOTS do they have in their career.. It would probably be less than five (COMBINED).. this may be unfair but players such as Chris Paul, Dwayne Wade, Deron Williams have that number in the first two or three months into a season..

Marvin and Chillz have been disappointments. They do have skillsets, but lack the leadership skills that distinguish that legitimate Top 6 picks unusually have.. They don't shy away from adversity, they embrace it..

Chillz for Monta Ellis would be a player I would pursue.. Ellis wants the pressure of being 'the man'.. He is skinny, but 6'3 and has heart..and you can't teach that..

LeBron didn't have enough support around him to get his Cavs team over the top.. Players such as Donyell Marshall, Vareajo and Z 'shrunk' when the pressure built up and THIS is something that Billy Knight has to consider when bringing a player here.. We need 'leaders', not complacent followers..

[jezmund]

I'd have no qualms packaging some of our young talent for a proven player assuming the proven player isn't on his decline and doesn't have some $13-15+M contract. Exceptions being KG and Amare.

[sick_five]

My respoinse to that would be that you aren't going to find a team of all leaders... it just isn't going to happen. You will have to have enough guys that can lead, but every player on your team WON'T be a leader.

Also, a player like Chills, the "glue guy" is very important to a team. He provides energy off of the bench. The Hawks definitely need more guys that will make shots at the end of the game, but there are 48 minutes in a game and not just 5 or 6. You need energy guys that can get you to those last few minutes and Josh Childress is one of those guys. As far as Marvin is concerned, it's way too early to tell about him. He was raw coming in, and has made progressed, but is far from a finished product. If he doesn't improve next season, then we can debate the subject some more.

As far as leadership is concerned, I believe the Hawks drafted as big of one as they could get in Acie Law. Everyone will see it maninfest in a couple of years (his leadership that is.)

[HAWKS1986]

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My respoinse to that would be that you aren't going to find a team of all leaders... it just isn't going to happen. You will have to have enough guys that can lead, but every player on your team WON'T be a leader.

Also, a player like Chills, the "glue guy" is very important to a team. He provides energy off of the bench. The Hawks definitely need more guys that will make shots at the end of the game, but there are 48 minutes in a game and not just 5 or 6. You need energy guys that can get you to those last few minutes and Josh Childress is one of those guys. As far as Marvin is concerned, it's way too early to tell about him. He was raw coming in, and has made progressed, but is far from a finished product. If he doesn't improve next season, then we can debate the subject some more.

[WorldBFree]

in the case of Childress, he's a great player to have on a team - smart, energetic, team guy, has well-rounded (if no amazing) skills. it's just that such a 'role' player is not worth a #6 pick. that's the kind of player one can pick up in the middle or late first round, sometime in the 2nd round. he's NEVER gonna live up to the expectations that come with being a top-6 pick. but that doesn't mean he's not a very necessary component to a playoff team. playoff teams need players that can come off the bench with energy, bench players that can play multiple positions and start for awhile with decent results.

Marvin's a different problem. teams can only get by with drafting "potential" if they have a coaching staff that can develop talent. otherwise, you end up with young players who never improve their skillset. MW has loads of athletic talent, but he's very young and needs coaching. OR he's not the prospect the Hawks thought he was and they made a mistake making him the #2 pick.

the Hawks could have had Childress lower than #6, just like they could have had Shelden lower than #5. it stinks they don't how to trade down...

[HAWKS1986]

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in the case of Childress, he's a great player to have on a team - smart, energetic, team guy, has well-rounded (if no amazing) skills. it's just that such a 'role' player is not worth a #6 pick. that's the kind of player one can pick up in the middle or late first round, sometime in the 2nd round. he's NEVER gonna live up to the expectations that come with being a top-6 pick. but that doesn't mean he's not a very necessary component to a playoff team. playoff teams need players that can come off the bench with energy, bench players that can play multiple positions and start for awhile with decent results.

Marvin's a different problem. teams can only get by with drafting "potential" if they have a coaching staff that can develop talent. otherwise, you end up with young players who never improve their skillset. MW has loads of athletic talent, but he's very young and needs coaching. OR he's not the prospect the Hawks thought he was and they made a mistake making him the #2 pick.

the Hawks could have had Childress lower than #6, just like they could have had Shelden lower than #5. it stinks they don't how to trade down...

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Other examples of talented guys or with loads of 'potential'

1. Dermarr Johnson

2. Boris Diaw

3. Salim Stoudamire

They have talent, but don't know how to use their talent consistently to make a difference here in Atlanta..

I think Childress has been a given a fair chance to show what he can do, and to be honest, it hasn't been enough.. Shelden is on thin ice and Marvin has to have a 'breakthrough' year in 2007 and start using his talent at the end of games and provide glimpses of his potential of being a superstar player ..

Josh Smith has emerged and took his game to another level, and is working with Hakeem Olajuwon..that's positive.. What is Marvin Williams doing? Whatever he is doing, Marvin has to show who he really is as player-- starting NOW.. in the words of d*ck Vermeil..'it's time to take the diapers off'..

[skankin_richard]

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Other examples of talented guys or with loads of 'potential'

1. Dermarr Johnson

2. Boris Diaw

3. Salim Stoudamire

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that's kind of unfair to compare Marvin to them.

Demarr Johnson could have been great, but that accident ruined his career.

Boris Diaw is a lazy tool with a bad attitude, and no work ethic.

Salim... well, he's just a headcase...

Marvin is none of those things. He's a good kid, and has a great work ethic... I think he'll be fine. If he puts up 15-16 a game, I think he'll be good.

and as far as leadership goes, Law's a big time guy, and JJ is really starting to come into his his own as a leader.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

What's so funny about the Smoove fans, is that Smoove was arguably our MOST inconsistent player, up until he went out for that herina surgery back in December. After his 2 years, people still had PLENTY of questions about Smith. But for Chill and Marvin, they need to "prove themselves now"?

After his first 2 years, Marvin is probably further along as a player, than Smoove was in his first 2 years. Smoove fans need to keep in mind that he only shot 44% FG this year. While he's obviously a better player this year than he was last year, he was only a better player for 1/2 the season. Before Christmas, Smoove was great on some nights, dog ish the next. NO consistency whatsoever from him. Now, it looks as if he turned the corner.

Marvin? He's improved as well. People conviently forget that this was his first year in the starting lineup. And he missed 1/4 of the season with the injury. Let's see what he can do in Year 3, just like we had to wait for Year 3 of Smoove to see what he can do.

In all honesty, Childress should've been the starter last year, with Marvin coming off the bench. But like you said, they had to take the diapers off our #2 pick.

When you talk about consistency, Childress is easily more consistent than both Smoove and Marvin. It's a shame that our fan base has to take shots at any of these guys, in order to hype their favorite forward up.

If the front office wants to, and if the marketplace doesn't overvalue any of these guys, the Hawks could definitely keep Smoove, Chill and Marvin around. All 3 bring different things to the table that help the Hawks.

So we trade Chill for Monta Ellis. What happens with Acie Law then? Do we play Monta at the point? If that happens, how is the #11 pick that we just acquired going to help us? ( By the way, Law is a better all-around player than Ellis, even though we almost traded for him with that #11 pick ).

[HAWKS1986]

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What's so funny about the Smoove fans, is that Smoove was arguably our MOST inconsistent player, up until he went out for that herina surgery back in December. After his 2 years, people still had PLENTY of questions about Smith. But for Chill and Marvin, they need to "prove themselves now"?

After his first 2 years, Marvin is probably further along as a player, than Smoove was in his first 2 years. Smoove fans need to keep in mind that he only shot 44% FG this year. While he's obviously a better player this year than he was last year, he was only a better player for 1/2 the season. Before Christmas, Smoove was great on some nights, dog ish the next. NO consistency whatsoever from him. Now, it looks as if he turned the corner.

Marvin? He's improved as well. People conviently forget that this was his first year in the starting lineup. And he missed 1/4 of the season with the injury. Let's see what he can do in Year 3, just like we had to wait for Year 3 of Smoove to see what he can do.

In all honesty, Childress should've been the starter last year, with Marvin coming off the bench. But like you said, they had to take the diapers off our #2 pick.

When you talk about consistency, Childress is easily more consistent than both Smoove and Marvin. It's a shame that our fan base has to take shots at any of these guys, in order to hype their favorite forward up.

If the front office wants to, and if the marketplace doesn't overvalue any of these guys, the Hawks could definitely keep Smoove, Chill and Marvin around. All 3 bring different things to the table that help the Hawks.

So we trade Chill for Monta Ellis. What happens with Acie Law then? Do we play Monta at the point? If that happens, how is the #11 pick that we just acquired going to help us? ( By the way, Law is a better all-around player than Ellis, even though we almost traded for him with that #11 pick ).

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If the Hawks were to acquire Ellis, it would not affect Law's development as our starting PG.. They would play the backcourt while Joe Johnson moves to small forward. Now Joe Johnson wouldn't exclusively play small forward, he would go back to playing shooting guard depending on the matchups .... Ellis can play either the 1 or 2, just like Law and Joe can play 2 or 3. They are 'interchangeable'..

Law will be the 'lead guard' and floor general..the Ellis acquisition wouldn't change that-- in my opinion..

However, having Ellis on the team gives the Hawks another explosive scorer who can create his own shot or create for others.

If Ellis is here, Chillz and Lue, would need to be moved.

[Admin]

Great response!

[KB21]

Let's also not forget that Josh Smith's play settled down and his game took off when he was playing the power forward position. People forget that his inconsistent first half had more to do with him playing small forward than anything else. Small forward is simply out of his element at this time. Josh Smith is a power forward, and all of these fans that want to see him moved back to small forward obviously only want to see him fail.

[HawksFan87]

I think Chills has it in him, but Marvin is so soft right now. He needs to drive more instead he just settles for jumpers all the time. But Chill he's fearless to me. Maybe he was picked to high ,But I am happy he's on this team. I love the way Chills brings it every game, He does whatever the coach asks him to do.

[Admin]

as anyone on this team in the half court set. I guess some of you are having a hard time separating his rookie year and last year. You seem to forget the MANY nights where he was constantly at the FT line (and knowing them down at a very high rate) because he was attacking the basket and getting fouled. Rookie Marvin was a jumpshooter. Year 2 Marvin was a guy who was not afraid of contact and constantly challenged in the paint. He is FAR from soft. Nobody will confuse him with being the best finisher on the team right now but I expect we will see even more of the same this year from Marvin with a little more strength, explosiveness, and craftiness which will allow him to finish more frequently.

[HAWKS1986]

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I think Chills has it in him, but Marvin is so soft right now. He needs to drive more instead he just settles for jumpers all the time. But Chill he's fearless to me. Maybe he was picked to high ,But I am happy he's on this team. I love the way Chills brings it every game, He does whatever the coach asks him to do.

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Chillz didn't bring it every game during the 2006-2007 season. He did have some moments or 'bright spots', but too often he disappeared from games. Plus, he was often passive offensively while going to the basket. He does have an ugly shot, and he isn't very explosive or aggressive and it works against him..

[SuperSavvyNation]

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Chillz didn't bring it every game during the 2006-2007 season. He did have some moments or 'bright spots', but too often he disappeared from games. Plus, he was often passive offensively while going to the basket. He does have an ugly shot, and he isn't very explosive or aggressive and it works against him..

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I disagree with that assessment. Chill is a maximum effort guy. He is constantly moving and uses his excellent BBIQ to get his points. Now he isn't a creator and depends on others to get him the ball in scoring situations, so maybe that is a factor in him looking 'passive', as you say.

But I think he is knocked far too often because 'most of his baskets are layups'. Well maybe that points to his limited offense, but I think it is also a credit to him being a savvy player that he is able to get open and get those easy points so often. Makes you wonder how many more uncontested layups (and many times in a half court set!) he could get if we had a skilled passing PG.

Zbo

[Sothron]

I tell you what bothers me the most about Marvin: our team has already said they are openly shopping for another scoring option. If the #2 pick in the draft at SF can not be that option then does anything else need to be said about him?

[Nicholasp27]

chill is one of our on-court leaders, so yes, he can lead

the ONLY issues with chill are

a) stress fractures; just recurred because woody played him way too many mpg after coming back because of other injuries? or gonna be a problem from now on?

i think with offseason rest and then playing 30mpg, not closer to 40mpg, he'll be fine

b) will he stay here and be a 30mpg 6th man, or does he wanna go elsewhere and start?

this is up to FO to figure out ahead of time and privately, so plans can be made if necessary

if he's fine to stay here in that role, then i'm 100% behind keeping him here, as he's a great player that is very underrated and he contributes to WINS more than almost everyone on our team (and more than deng/iggy for that matter)

[HAWKS1986]

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I tell you what bothers me the most about Marvin: our team has already said they are openly shopping for another scoring option. If the #2 pick in the draft at SF can not be that option then does anything else need to be said about him?

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Precisely, Marvin has had two years to get his act together. The Hawks' management has been patient, but he has to show that he is capable of dominating and being someone that warrants a double team.. and be someone to count on at the END OF GAMES.. Marvin doesn't necessarily have to dominate EVERY NIGHT, but at least be a 'force' every other night..

The Hawks have been out of the playoffs for EIGHT YEARS and its time for the young players to end this playoff futility streak in 2007...

[Dejay]

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I tell you what bothers me the most about Marvin: our team has already said they are openly shopping for another scoring option. If the #2 pick in the draft at SF can not be that option then does anything else need to be said about him?

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You said it in a nutshell. Why in the blue hell is this team shopping for another scoring option when there's a guy on the roster who was a #2 pick? Folks on this board had a fit when I said that I expected close to 22/7 from MW to justify taking him over (insert point guard here) because those numbers are 'borderline All-Star' numbers. He was the 'effin 2nd pick of the draft; I EXPECT BORDERLINE ALL-STAR NUMBERS FROM A GUY DRAFTED IN THAT POSITION, especially when he's on a team that is soooo lacking on firepower.

As for Childress, my thoughts are the same. He gives effort, he makes a living from putbacks, layups, and the jumper when there isn't a guy within a kilometer of him. A great guy to have on the roster if he wasn't the 6TH PICK OF THE DRAFT. As much as I complain about Marvin, Childress should also be much further along in his development. The guy STILL can't get his own shot from 15-18 feet without help. I'm still waiting for the guy who ended his rookie year averaging 16/7 down the stretch to reappear. He should be challenging MW for the starting position, not being content to come off the bench.

[HAWKS1986]

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I tell you what bothers me the most about Marvin: our team has already said they are openly shopping for another scoring option. If the #2 pick in the draft at SF can not be that option then does anything else need to be said about him?

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You said it in a nutshell. Why in the blue hell is this team shopping for another scoring option when there's a guy on the roster who was a #2 pick? Folks on this board had a fit when I said that I expected close to 22/7 from MW to justify taking him over (insert point guard here) because those numbers are 'borderline All-Star' numbers. He was the 'effin 2nd pick of the draft; I EXPECT BORDERLINE ALL-STAR NUMBERS FROM A GUY DRAFTED IN THAT POSITION, especially when he's on a team that is soooo lacking on firepower.

As for Childress, my thoughts are the same. He gives effort, he makes a living from putbacks, layups, and the jumper when there isn't a guy within a kilometer of him. A great guy to have on the roster if he wasn't the 6TH PICK OF THE DRAFT. As much as I complain about Marvin, Childress should also be much further along in his development. The guy STILL can't get his own shot from 15-18 feet without help. I'm still waiting for the guy who ended his rookie year averaging 16/7 down the stretch to reappear. He should be challenging MW for the starting position, not being content to come off the bench.

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**Content** is the buzzword. Childress seems 'content' with his play, but we do forget that he was the 6th pick of the NBA draft four years ago. And I get that same feeling from Marvin about being **content**..doing just enough to get by and get a second contract, but never reach their full potential..

The players have to be 'self-motivated' to use their potential and usually that is the difference between the great players and the good players..

You have to have talent along with the athleticism and desire to win or 'hate to lose' attitude.. Amare Stoudamire has 'it'..Jordan has 'it'..Wade has 'it'..

You can't teach 'it'... Someone such as Brent Petway may be seen as someone who isn't as fundamentally sound as Josh Childress or Marvin Williams, but Petway if given the same chance and two or three years to improve.. would his progress supersede Childress or Marvin? It's possible.

Petway could have a bigger 'impact' and be that energy player who is more athletic, plays stronger defense and provide a solid bench presence..and 'less expensive' ..