The John Schuerholz and Bobby Cox of the NBA

[KB21]

This is something I've been thinking about recently, and I wanted to throw this out here on the board for discussion purposes. If the Hawks were to make a change at the end of the season, I'd like for them to find the John Schuerholz and Bobby Cox of the NBA. The question is, who would that be?

When the Braves hired Schuerholz to be the GM back in 1990, he had previous experience as the Kansas City Royals GM and cut his teeth in the scouting department of the Baltimore Orioles. The Kansas City Royals won the World Series during JS's tenure as the GM.

Bobby was already in place in Atlanta when he got the manager's job. He was the general manager that preceeded John Schuerholz, but in 1989, he stepped out of the front office and took over for Russ Nixon as the manager and general manager. Bobby had extensive experience as a manager and was a guy who had worked his way up through the minor leagues as a manager and coach. He was also previously the Braves manager before Joe Torre. I think the biggest thing I'm looking for here is an experience coach who is a players coach that will never call out or embarrass a player publicly but knows when to peel the paint behind closed doors.

As far as the GM, John was previously a scout, so he had the vantage point of being out there on the front lines. I think a comparable GM would be one that knows the importance of having veteran role players (a la Sid Bream, Rafael Belliard....etc) as well as knowing that the draft is the life blood of the franchise.

I don't have any names yet, but I'm thinking of guys I would consider to be a JS type or a BC type.

[drzachary]

Hm, can we find the JS and Joe Torre of the NBA instead?

[KB21]

I don't think I want a manager that cannot win unless he has the payroll of the New York Yankees. Bobby Cox is the best, easily.

[atlien110]

correction: best during the regular season.

i like bobby cox. i think he takes way too much flack for the braves post season collapses. i just don't think coaches play as a much a factor in baseball as it does in football and basketball. is their strategy in baseball? of course, but cmon it's not like they run diagrammed plays. coaching moves in baseball are much more subtle, and it really is all up to the player to make it happen. the braves PLAYERS choke during the playoffs.

the best parallel to the braves in today's nba is the detroit pistons. they walk through the regular season in the weaker of two conferences and then they stumble and bumble their way out of the playoffs. and of course the history of flip and bobby's careers seem like they're duplicates of each other. (except bobby's one title)

call me a sucker for t.v. analysts but just like hubie brown, doug collins can break down a game and i think he would make an exceptional gm.

[drzachary]

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I don't think I want a manager that cannot win unless he has the payroll of the New York Yankees. Bobby Cox is the best, easily.

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I think he's the best at keeping players happy and productive over the course of a season by an INCREDIBLE margin over any other manager, but his in-game poor decisions are magnified in the playoffs.

[coachx]

To be compared to Cox you must be a seasoned veteran coach. Only 3 names come to mind being expierenced enough to even qualify to be in this discussion: Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and Jerry Sloan.

Unlke Bobby, Phil Jackson only won b/c he was given talent far superior to every one else. However like Bobby, Phil is excellent at player realtions and team chemistry. (Got Rodman to settle down and produce on the court and got Shaq and Kobe to live with each other long enough to win 3 Championships.) The comparison stops there for me. Phil is not a throw back traditionalist like Bobby. Phil uses unconventional methods to get his point across. Phil Jackson = Joe Torrie more then Bobby Cox b/c Phil like Joe have been given teams with so much talent it would only be a suprise if they didn't win a Championship.

Pat Riley has been around forever like Bobby. However, Pat's slicked back smooth look in LA with the show time Lakers was the anti Bobby. In NY, Pat was more of a tough minded , throw back, defensive minded coach. In Miami, he has been know to trust veteran players , who many see as over the hill, like Bobby. Not many similarities here but a there are a couple. Pat Riley is kind of a Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa type to me. LaRussa (Oakland), Leyland (Pirates) had high profile teams in the 80's and early 90's and are still managing winning teams today.

Without a doubt, Jerry Sloan is the closest thing the NBA has to Bobby Cox. Jerry Sloan has stuck with the same team for almost 20 years like Sloan. They are both "throw back" tradionlist who have not conformed their coaching style to fit today's stereotypical professional athelete. Neither coach allow music in the locker room without using head phones. Both are succesful winner that have the respect of their players and peers.

Of course none of these are perfect in their similarities but this break downs makes the most sense to me whem comparing basketball and bnaseball.

As far as the GM part goes. The 2 sports are two different for me to touch on that.

[Peoriabird]

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Unlke Bobby, Phil Jackson only won b/c he was given talent far superior to every one else.

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So 3 1st ballot hall of fame pitchers on the same team in their prime surrounded by at least 4 other allstars does represent superior talent? You are reaching on this one!

[KB21]

I agree with you.

Another similarity is that I've seen Jerry Sloan go crazy with the refs, but I've never seen him embarrass a player publicly. If he has, then I don't know about it.

Also, of the three coaches you mentioned, Jerry Sloan is the one that doesn't have the major ego. Both Phil and Pat are egomaniacs. They love having the attention on him. Jerry Sloan would rather have the attention on his players.

[Spiral]

Couldn't have said it better...

I believe he's way too content to wait on the 3 run homer. He also beats the lefty/righty match-up in the ground no matter the situation. I wish he'd play more A-B-C baseball. (Get them on, get them over, get them in) He rearely has anyone bunt that isn't a pitcher. However, like you said, he might be the best ever at keeping a team productive over a 162 game season.

[KB21]

I absolutely hate the bunting game. A lot of people think it is a great idea to bunt when you have a runner at 1st base and no one out, and Bobby does do that a great deal.

I don't believe it is a good idea. There is not enough of an increase in the chances of that runner scoring from 2nd with one out than he has of scoring from 1st with no outs.

The only times I would call for a bunt as a baseball coach would be if I'm bunting for a hit or if I have a runner at 2nd with no one out.

I don't have much criticism at all about Bobby's game management. He's the best manager in the game at managing his pitchers by far. I do, however, wonder what in the world was going on yesterday in the 8th inning when Chipper attempted to steal 2nd base with 2 outs and Teixeira at bat. A sign had to be missed there, because that was boneheaded. You don't take the bat out of Tex's hand like that, even if Chipper had been safe.

[Packfill]

Greg Popovich is a pretty good example. He does have a big time superstar in Duncan, which obviously helps, but he is able to motivate that team to play defense and utilizes veteran players in well defined roles.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

You can't compare coaches of the NBA to MLB managers since all the manager job is to manage the game while the coach does that and drawing up plays.

[Vol4ever]

Well I think the first thing that has to happen is the ownership of the team has to be decided whomever it may be. This team will never be successful no matter the players, coach or GM until a remedy is made to ownership.

As a fan I would not buy one ticket to see this team play until this garbage is resolved. I operate a business and am responsible to a board of directors. Who does the team split ownership report to now? It has been said thet the court case could be drawn out for years! YEARS!

The only way for this ti come to a resolution is for the fans to saty away and not buy tickets. When the money is not coming in, then resolution will happen.

[coachx]

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Unlke Bobby, Phil Jackson only won b/c he was given talent far superior to every one else.

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So 3 1st ballot hall of fame pitchers on the same team in their prime surrounded by at least 4 other allstars does represent superior talent? You are reaching on this one!

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I see your point but not when relating to the talent level Phil Jackson had to work with.

In my opinion comparing any of the 90's and 2000 Braves teams to the level of talent of the Bulls and Lakers championship teams is quite a reach.

The Braves teams were good but by far not even in the conversation of them being the most talented baseball team in history. They did not have one hall of fame hitter until Chipper came around. Chipper was just a rookie hitting a mere .265 the year of the 1995 World Series Championship. The way Andruw Jones strikes out and conistently hits around .260, he could be the first player to 500 homers who sits out of the hall of fame. In my opinion a .260 average and averaging over 150 strikeouts a year is not hall of fame worthy. If Andrew makes it, it is do, in large part, to his gold glove. the Braves have had consistently good talent but I would not call it great and definately never elite. We did have possiblehebest pitching trio in the history of baseball with an average offense. The Braves have had a steady flow of allstar caliber hitters but none are hall of famers or all time greats like what Phil Jackson had to work with in:( Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen).

Those Lakers and Bulls teams are in the conversation for most talented basketball teams in the history of the NBA. No Braves team is in the conversation for most talented team in baseball history or even in the last quarter century.

Bobby has had talent but Phil has been given more.