Hawks players predictions...

[Peoriabird]

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I think that's your agenda.

When Marvin can block a shot or finish a fast break....

Let me know.

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I guess Marvin's play this coming season will have to shut you down. And I'll be right there to remind you how wrong you are about him like a lot of you other predictions about players. Channing Frye, Charlie v. & Kwame Brown come to mind. Do you realize that Marvin only had 9 fewer blocks last season than Shelden while playing in 17 fewer games!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Diesel, quit changing your position on this. I think all of Hawksquawk would agree on who we'd rather have on the team. Of course we'd all rather have Smoove. But not the Smoove that plays SF.

The Smoove that plays SF is an undisciplined, low BBIQ type player that takes a plethora of bad shots, turns the ball over a lot, and isn't nearly quick enough to stay with the average SF. He'll hit a 3 pointer on occasion, and will still give you the highlight dunk on the fast break. But overall, his potential is severely suppressed playing SF.

The Smoove that plays PF, is still an undisciplined player, but he's an ATTACKING player. He attacks the rim on offense. He attacks the glass on defense. He gets many more block shots because he's closer to the rim. And he's learning not to "settle" for open 20 foot shots when he's at the 4. Most important, he's in the middle of the action, which forces him to stay active on both ends.

*****

Out of the 154 shots he took in November, 46 were threes. Forty-six. That's 30% of the shots he jacked up. That's not counting all of the mid-range jumpers from 15 - 22 feet that he took.

And he shot 24% from 3, and 36% from the field that month. Surely that's not the Smoove you want playing for the Hawks, is it?

The Seattle/Atlanta shot chart for the game in November tells you all you need to know about Smoove.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=261111001

Good lord, even Chill was outscoring Smoove back in November, and shot 58% FG in the process, before he got hurt. If you want to make a case for anybody other than Marvin playing SF, it's Childress, not Smoove.

But "one-dimensional" Marvin at SF is better than Smoove at SF, because Marvin won't make nearly the amount of bad plays that Smoove will.

If you truly want the Hawks to win, you should NEVER want to see Smoove getting extended minutes at the SF position. I'd rather see him at center, than at small forward.

Smoove is a mediocre player when he plays SF. He's a potential All-Star when he plays PF.

[Zone034life]

All of these numbers are starting to make my head spin.All I know is Josh Smith intangibles outweigh Marvin Williams.You can bring up all the stats you want but my eyes see MW still needing to improve his defensive,rebounding and three point shooting skills.Josh Smith needs to limit his three point attempts,costly turnovers and on ball defense.I still would take Smooth just because he seems to play with more passion than MW.Luckily as a Hawks fan the normally bad GM of ours drafted a player to unify and lead all the parts on this team," Acie Law ".I believe a big reason for the mental lapses and inconsistency of the Hawks young players is because they had no one on the court to keep there heads in the game.Thats why Acie may be the most important part of this team no one seems to be talking about.

[Diesel]

I look forward to it...

[atlien]

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... all of Marvin's shots come from the midrange. He's not a finisher. He's not a slasher (as some have said). He's a standstill Jumpshooter.

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Whoa whoa whoa. Don't confuse the type of player Marvin is with the way Woodson is using him.

Marvin played NOTHING like that in HS and at UNC. It's Woody who uses Marvin in that way. Personally, I thought it was a big mistake (although it has helped Marv develop that part of his game, but at the expense of other parts). That is a VERY important distinction.

Also Diesel, 3-point shooting is only one facet of perimeter play. I think Marvin actually is a better shooter (I know the numbers, but put them next to each other in the gym and let them shoot 1,000 3s, and I guarantee you Marvin makes a good bit more). But, Marvin has Smoove in a lot of other perimeter aspects. Ball-handling (Smoove actually isnt very good at this). A great first step (one of Marvin's biggest strengths). Etc.

Smoove is way better as a 4 in the vein of Marion or Kirelinko. Marvin is way better as our 3.

Northcyde, you always make the points I want to make, but better, and with solid arguments/evidence. Thanks for that.

Zone, it's not about starting Smoove or Marvin at the 3. SMOOVE IS OUR STARTING 4. NOONE IS DEBATING THAT (well, I guess some are wanting Smoove at the 3, but I point to northcyde's post above). If you wanna get into an argument about it, it should be between Marvin and Chill at the 3 (see the current thread on that one). SMOOVE IS OUR STARTING 4.

[AtLaS]

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... all of Marvin's shots come from the midrange. He's not a finisher. He's not a slasher (as some have said). He's a standstill Jumpshooter.

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Whoa whoa whoa. Don't confuse the type of player Marvin is with the way Woodson is using him.

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I guess you didn't read that article about Marvin a while back, he was asked about completing his entire game (i.e. driving and finishing), and his reply was something like "Well we have JJ to create, and I'm getting open shots so I'm just going to try to knock those down" or something. Very disappointing. And I'm sick of people saying players aren't used properly, if someone is good enough it will show in practice and their coach will make SURE they get the ball.

[atlien]

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... all of Marvin's shots come from the midrange. He's not a finisher. He's not a slasher (as some have said). He's a standstill Jumpshooter.

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Whoa whoa whoa. Don't confuse the type of player Marvin is with the way Woodson is using him.

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I guess you didn't read that article about Marvin a while back, he was asked about completing his entire game (i.e. driving and finishing), and his reply was something like "Well we have JJ to create, and I'm getting open shots so I'm just going to try to knock those down" or something. Very disappointing. And I'm sick of people saying players aren't used properly, if someone is good enough it will show in practice and their coach will make SURE they get the ball.

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I disagree with this statement. You sir, have too much faith in Mike Woodson.

Mike Woodson is all about roles. He talks about them constantly, and players learn to talk in those terms too (I've noticed it among all the Hawks players; they buy into the systema and talk in those terms... which isn't necessarily a bad thing for them b/c they should listen to their coach).

So, I think Marvin has been pigeon-holed a bit into that role by Woody (as opposed to you and Diesel who think that that is actually the entire arsenal of Marvin's game). This is a Woody problem and that statement you quoted from Marvin is almost assuredely a Woody statement to him.

Again, Marvin actually was a slasher in HS and college. And no, in no ways do I have confidence in Woody to regonize things in practice and have them implemented in a game setting.

[AtLaS]

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I disagree with this statement. You sir, have too much faith in Mike Woodson.

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LOL, as bad as Mike Woodson is, he knows the game of basketball and he's been around it his entire life. Steve Spurrier was a HORRIBLE NFL coach, does that mean he doesn't know football? Michael Jordan is a horrible GM, does that mean he doesn't know the game? If Marvin was good enough, Mike Woodson would realize it. Not only that, there are about 10 assistants that coach the team as well, and Woodson listens to his assistants. Saying you wouldn't expect them to realize if Marvin was better is just flat making excuses.

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So, I think Marvin has been pigeon-holed a bit into that role by Woody

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The NBA is a player's league, probably moreso than any other major sport. There is a 24 second shot clock, there isn't a lot of time to setup an offense other than a few picks here and there. Again, if Marvin was good enough, he'd get his shots. Lue, JJ, Smith, Salim, Zaza have no problems getting opportunities, so why doesn't Marvin? Is it a Mike Woodson conspiracy against everything Marvin?

And to further prove your analysis wrong, Marvin took the 3rd most shots on our entire TEAM last year! And you say he doesn't get opportunities?

[Diesel]

How a person plays in HS and how they play in the NBA will always be different because it's a different game.

Listen to what is said about Chillz when he was in High School:

A McDonald's High School All-American ... During his senior season, helped his team to the state playoffs, averaging 24 points, eight rebounds, five assists and three blocks per game for Mayfair High School ... In one three-overtime game against Long Beach Poly, scored 39 points and grabbed 20 rebounds ... Gained numerous post-season honors including all-state, and league MVP ... During his junior season, averaged 22 points, seven rebounds and three assists per game ... Helped lead his team to a 27-3 record and the semi-finals of the California state tournament ... In one memorable game against Cerritos, scored 40 points (16-of-17 from the floor) and grabbed 20 rebounds in three quarters of play ... For his efforts, was named All-CIF and All-Suburban League .

Can you imagine Chillz putting up 40 points and grabbing 20 rebounds? How about averaging 3 blocks per game?

High school is different from the pros...

[atlien]

lol, c'mon Diesel, i'm not talking about HS stats vs. pro/college stats. I'm talking about the general type of game people play (and of course Chill is gonna dominate in ALL areas... so please no sarcastic "well Chill grabbed 20 rebounds and blocked 7 shots, he should be our starting center" BS). Not to get into it, all I'm saying is that Marvin has NOT been a "standstill jumpshooter" his entire basketball playing life. On the contrary, he has been an all-around type guy who can handle the ball like a guard, shoot, pass, take it to the rack, etc. This is why he got drafted so high. The way he is being utilized in ATL is way different than how we was at UNC. As time goes on, Marvin's game will fill-out in the NBA and we'll see these other things more often.

Atlas, I think you misunderstood me. I agree with you that Marvin has not been assertive enough (but I think this will come with age, experience, and confidence... just like it did for JJ and guys like Rashard Lewis). But, at the same time, can you honestly watch games and tell me that it doesnt seem as if Marvin is being told to do what he is doing? He is a very coachable kid who'll do what is asked from him. It was obvious to me that it was Woody telling him to focus in on those mid-range jumpshots when left open cuz of pressure on JJ.

Still, Marvin does need to be more assertive and he does need to show Woody that he is capable of doing more.

So no, I don't think its a Woody "conspiracy" against Marvin, but at the same time, Im not completely satisfied with how Woody utilizies the kid. It could very well be that Marvin wasn't ready for more than that, and that Woody will extend the leash as Marv gets more confidence/experience.

[Zone034life]

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Zone, it's not about starting Smoove or Marvin at the 3. SMOOVE IS OUR STARTING 4. NOONE IS DEBATING THAT (well, I guess some are wanting Smoove at the 3, but I point to northcyde's post above). If you wanna get into an argument about it, it should be between Marvin and Chill at the 3 (see the current thread on that one). SMOOVE IS OUR STARTING 4.

[atlien]

ah my bad zone, i see what youre saying. i thought in your comparison somewhere you were talking about whod your rather have starting. my point is that I want them BOTH to start, and I actually think they are a nice up-and-coming tandem.

[CAM]

I'll chime in with my predictions

Law = 9.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.1 apg, 45% FG

JJ = 23.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 4.3 apg. 55% FG

Josh Smith = 18.0 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 2.6 apg. 44% FG

Horford = 9.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg. 52% FG

Shelden = 8.0 ppg, 7.1 rpg, .8 apg. 55% FG

Marvin = 16.5 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.5 apg. 46% FG

Zaza = 9.4 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.4 apg. 48% FG

Chillz = 13.3 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.1 apg 50% FG

Speedy = 8.5 ppg, 2.2 stl, 6.1 apg, 42% FG

Solo = 4.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg, 42%FG

Salim = 6.5 ppg, 0.9 stl 2.1 apg

Lue = 6 ppg, 2.8 apg