Still Want Bruce Bowen over Ira?

[jaywalker72]

I waited patiently for a few games to pass since our last discussion, during which Newble proved time and time again that he can do everything Bowen can do, and more.

He has hit the outside shot.

He has attacked the basket and run the floor.

He has defended his position well.

All for a fraction of the cost of either Bowen or Greg Buckner, who can't match Ira's production.

I am sorry, but Bruce Bowen can't run the floor and finish like Ira, and while I am sure Bruce does some things better than Ira, it is certainly closer than some of you indicated last week during this discussion.

Is Newble overflowing with talent, impossible to contain?

Obviously, no.

But he is bringing the complete "Complementary Player" package, and is doing it better than his contemporaries.

[Guest]

Again,Newble has become more productive as the

games have become more meaningless.While it's

nice to see a balanced attack, it's hard to know if

it will happen next season when they make another

effort for the playoffs.

[Gray Mule]

THIS IS PART OF THE MATURING PROCESS. HE IS BEING

USED MORE THAN EARLIER IN THE SEASON. BIG DOG WAS

TO BE THE MAIN COG IN THE MACHINE, IRA WAS ONLY A

SPARE PART. NOW, WHEN BIG DOG IS OUT, WE CAN SEE

THE REAL VALUE OF IRA.

INTERESTING PICTURE, ISN'T IT, HOTLANTADUDE!!

[KB21]

So, you are saying that these were meaningless games for the Detroit Pistons and New Jersey Nets, who are fighting for home court advantage in the East. You are saying that these were meaningless games for the Washington Wizards and New York Knicks, who were battling for a playoff spot.

Yeah. Those teams just layed down and let players like Ira Newble and Dion Glover play well because those games were meaningless for them.

You just don't have a friggin clue about sports, do you?

[Guest]

The Hawks at this point can play more free flowing

because they have nothing on the line.Where was

this when the Hawks lost by 35 to Memphis?Where

was the production when the games were in of

importance to the Hawks?

Washington and NY suck and neither even have

good records.[censored],Stackhouse didn't even play

last night and the Wizards have next to nothing

in talent(Kwame getting rejected by the rim was

really funny.what a loser)and they still lost by

only 1 point.

My point is some of this might mean something

if the Hawks were actually playing for something.

And don't give me the whole pride crap.If they had

any pride they wouldn't have got whiped by Memphis

by 30 something points.

You just don't get it do you?And don't hand me the

whole building for next season stuff either.That is

what they supposed to have done last year.

I knew this team was doomed the game they were

up on Denver by 30 points and allowed them to

comeback.That was in early November.

[dgreene]

This last game against the Wizards was a meaningless game. Unless MJ's pride is worth something to the players, anyway. Still, I think it's harder to go out and play hard in a meaningless game. I really would like to see a meaningful stretch of games (next season, obviously) with Big Dog not playing and Ira getting the start. If they play then as well as they are now, it's a good team. Could use some more ball-handling, but still a good team.

[Guest]

They're defense has also been terrible.Giving up

100 points to a Stackless and offensive challenged

Wizards.

The truth is nothing they do will count for anything

until they have a winning record.It's about winning

and losing.Who cares about numbers in losing

efforts?The objective is to WIN WIN WIN.

And excuse me,the games aren't meaningless to

Newble and Glover because it is contract time.I

think Glover has a little more desire than Newble,

it seems all to questionable that these guys produce

when the season draws to a near end.

If there is new owners that are decent spenders the

hawks might have a few more overpaid players.You

be positive and I'll be realistic.

We'll see next year after the Hawks fall down on the

charts below the more talented and better Bulls.

[chillzatl]

You make these posts like you are completely clueless about the game of basketball and oblivious to the concept of improvement. I mean get your head out of your ass and talk about the game like you understand it. Your comments are so devoid of basketball knowledge that they are little more than jokes.

All you can say about the hawks is that "these games are meaningless, that's why they are winning". You don't have the ability to recognize that we are playing with a different lineup and under a different system than we played under for half the season. Those things make a difference.

All you can say about Ira Newble is that "he is playing for a contract". But you are too thick headed to recognize that for most of the season he played at a position that he is not suited to play (SG). Then he was injured for a while. Only since coming back from that injury (which caused Dion to get the starting job, more on that next), has he looked like the Ira newble of last year. What do you know, he's been playing at the SF spot, where he was successful last year.

Next we have Dion. Again, another player that you say is "playing for a contract". But once more, you are too thick headed to recognize that Dion got jack for playing time when Lon was the coach. Only since Stotts became coach and Ira got hurt, did Dion even start getting consistant minutes. Since then he's been producing very well. In basketball, and every other sport, there is a thing called CONFIDENCE. Sometimes it takes getting consistant minutes to find your confidence. Dion is a perfect example of it. The guy has battled injuries and lack of playing time for two years. This is the first season that he has been healthy long enough to be given consistant minutes. What do you know, he's produced very well in that time.

So again, get your head out of your ass and talk about the game like you have a basic understanding of it. Otherwise, don't waste my hosting space with your eternally negative, thoughtless posts.

Didn't you say you weren't watching the Hawks anymore?

Didn't you say you weren't going to post in here anymore since you didn't have anything good to say?

If you can't stick to it, I can help you.

[jaywalker72]

Would you still take Bowen over Ira today?

[chillzatl]

Ira is more athletic and is becoming as good a shooter.

[KB21]

I'd take Ira over Bowen.

This comes back to something that Jeff Van Gundy said during the Hawks/Wizard's game a week ago. Ira Newble has improved immensly since he first came into the league. His jump shot has improved a ton.

Ira is athletic, plays defense, and is opportunistic on offense. He's the Hawks Shane Battier.

[cynic]

Yes, we are now out of playoff contention. Now the team is playing well. When we played against Memphis, we still had a shot. The team didn't play well then. Did the meaningfulness of the game cause us to play poorly? That's a tough conclusion to draw, because there were other factors. The team has also been playing well without Big Dog, and Big Dog was playing that day. Coincidence does not imply a cause and effect relationship.

This is an abstract idea. The problem is, Hotlantadude cannot grasp abstract ideas. All he can do is whine and say 'SAR sucks'.

If you need more proof that 'dude' cannot think logically, look at my post on Pat Riley. Here, I make a point that Riley makes an illogical step in concluding that SAR is not a good player because he plays on a bad team. What Riley does, like 'dude', is equivalent to saying that a good player necessarily plays on a good team (this is called the contrapositive). That's poor logic.

To further illustrate his poor logic, I drew a parallel to Eddie Jones. Eddie plays on a miserable team, but every one of us would love to have him. 'Dude' could not understand even such a concrete illustration.

I could also remind him that Alan Iverson played on a bad team for many years, as did Michael Finley, as did Antonio McDyess. Bad players? What about Andre Miller, Steve Francis, Antawn Jamison, and Elton Brand? Are they also bad players? I mean, they've never played on good teams.

'Dude' cannot understand reasoning, so we just shouldn't argue with him. He'll probably reply to this post and start talking about how every single player I listed is better than SAR. Was that the point? Of course not, but he'll argue with himself.

[mrhonline]

Jay, you of all people know not to place too much value on a few games out of an entire season...Newble is not a starter in the NBA (or, at least, shouldn't be). He's a role player and becoming a good one for the Hawks...but isn't his deal up at the end of the year? Let's wait and see how much he wants at the end of this contract and then compare his salary with Bowen's...

Bowen earned his contract playing stellar defense, let's see how much Newble earns with his hard work.

I will grant you this, though, I wish the rest of the Hawks team played as hard as Newble does on a nightly basis.

[KB21]

Bruce Bowen:

31.3 mpg, 7.3 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.3 apg, .78 spg, .473 FG, .453 3P, .388 FT, +8.2 EFF

Ira Newble:

26.2 mpg, 7.5 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 1.4 apg, .63 spg, .493 FG, .388 3P, .759 FT, +9.11 EFF

I'll take Newble, and if his agent wants to bring up a comparison to Bruce Bowen in the offseason, then he's got a great case to make.

[mrhonline]

KB21, are you saying that you would offer Newble a similar contract as Bowen's? 3 yr., 11 million? How much would you be willing to pony up for your "defensive stopper?" It's a tough question, and the Spurs obviously thought Bowen was a significant enough role player to hang onto...Is Ira in the same mold? If so, then why would he be significantly cheaper at the end of the year?

---

BTW, here's a funny story about Bowen:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/s...&xlc=979730

[jaywalker72]

You can bet the bank that Ira and his agent will be looking at Bowen money...heck, they did that THIS offseason...lol..

Ira will be looking for something that approaches the 3 and 11 contract that Bowen got or the 6 and 18 that Buckner got.

The Hawks are NOT in any financial position to overpay like that for a role player.

I feel that Newble is better than Bowen, but the Hawks can't overpay for replaceable skill sets like those three have.

There are a ton of guys like Newble, Bowen, and Buckner out there, and to overpay for replacement level talent is the easy way to salary cap [censored] (see: Chris Crawford, Alan Henderson)...

My point has always been that Bowen and Buckner got overpaid, but those playoff teams might have felt that a neccesary evil.

The Hawks can't.

[jaywalker72]

I would offer Ira a 2yr, with a player option on the second year, at about 1-1.25 mlllion/year.

This is slightly above replacement value, and gives the player the option of becoming a free agent again.

But I can guarantee that, even if Ira accepts this offer, it will only be with hard feelings and will occur well into September, just as this contract was.

The Hawks simply cannot continue to hand out multi-year deals that constrain their already handcuffed roster flexibilty, not even to mention their financial situation.

Let Mark Cuban overpay for Ira the way he is overpaying Raja Bell and Adreian Griffin. The Hawks simply can't...

[mrhonline]

A good response, for I too was thinking of Chris Crawford when I put those salary numbers up there...

What would be the maximum $/years that you (everyone @ Hawksquawk) would offer Newble? And what do you expect he'll get? I remember that the Hawks were frustrated over the Newble contract discussions last offseason, so I personally think he won't be back this time...Either way, a raise is definitely in order. 2 yrs. @ $1.5M each?

(BTW, I was thinking that it was too early to start talking about contract negotiations, but it looks like that time has [reluctantly] arrived).

[Guest]

I find it funny that you guys claim to know so

much but you always end up being wrongs.

When I see you guys on here overrating players

and act like they accomplish something I must

remind you that you are talking about a roster

full of scrubs that can't even win more than a

talentless Knicks team.

I don't see any system in place.I see the same

trash that I saw before.

Just like you guys all had a big orgy over a mediocre

record at the end of last season and that blew up

in you're face.

Newble's a 10th man.Ira is a player other teams make

jokes about.

We'll see what he can do when the Hawks are TRYING

again next year.Newble said himself it doesn't make a

difference.I think you overblow the SG/SF crap.

As far as SAR goes...Riley and Dampier already told you

what I told you before.Because I guess you hardcore

fans are alot smarter eh?That's why Pat has been a

coach for years and you guys are talking about it on

a message board.Get over yourselves.

And Chillz if you want to throw me off the board for

being honest that is you're choice.I'm not going to

give praise to a player or the team that has been

and continues to be a embarassment to everyone.

Didn't Shareef say at the end of last year"We'll make

the playoffs next year"

Good job Shareef!

And one more thing,how do you be positive about a

team that can't make the playoffs in the leastern

conference?

It's to the point to where we have to hope some hick

car salesman from Texas is going to save the team.

I know I sound repetitive at times,but you make me

sick when you talk like scrubs are good players.The

bias makes me sick.

[KB21]

No. You are just some dumbass wannabe who has never done anything in your life and never will.

You don't even know the difference between a scrub player and a star player. No one listens to you, stupid!

Quite frankly, I'm tired of you. I'd stomp a mud hole in you if I had the chance, but I'll just settle for Chillz banning your lousy, good for nothing, sorry excuse for a fan ass.