What are the "holes" in Marvin's game?

[Zone034life]

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Zone, your just as out to lunch. Unless someone is following Marvin around all day, then shut the hell up.

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Hold the f@#$ up guy. We can debate all you want but don't say things like that over the computer to another man when you know that man can't address you face to face about it. That is a punk move. You love a player who you don't even know to the point where you are on your period over him. Well I really don't care but respect isn't optional with me. You treat me like a man I treat you like one but that is too much.

Why can you be sarcastic about Marvin but when I am you get sensative? If we were in person Texas Pete I would slap your punk a@#!

[TexasPete]

Your a real Internet Gangsta, Zone. Where did I say I love Marvin Williams?

I'm saying that you and Diesel have no business crying over a performance that has yet to take place. You moan and whine about what a player does all summer without really knowing a damn thing. What's Marvin doing right now? Is he playing? Sleeping? Studying?

You and Diesel are starting nonsense when there is no proof about anything. Wait until the season starts at least before you rip somebody about their offseason.

If Marvin comes to camp the same player and not in shape, then you can rip him. This whole deal is all about nothing.

[Swatguy]

Calm yourself Summer Hill. There are guys that would never ever say to a man face-to-face . Kinda like Mark Bradley, never ever will go into the locker room but will spew bile up and down his column. Be easy.

The same that get hurt in discussing Marvin will call Shelden Out of his Name in a second.

[Zone034life]

Lol...actually its Jonesboro road and Cleveland avenue.I would love to see some of these guys on my side of town.

TexasPete we can talk Hawks all day because we both clearly love them. But lets leave the name calling and personal shots out of this. When I talk about Marvin I am going by his first two years not the fact they drafted him over C.Paul or D.Williams. My cooworker told me today that Marvin told Roy Williams not to start him at North Carolina. He also said the guy lacks the fire to ever be great in the NBA. You see there are people who believe Marvin Skills will never reach his potential. Just because they do you shouldn't get mad just agree to disagree and keep movin. When you are having a conversation about a player and you begin using foul language you are obviously overly sensative about that player. So you might say you don't love Marvin but what you type tells a different story.

I don't know about you guys but i'm ready for the season to start so hopefully I can be saying I was wrong about Marvin and Sheldon and I was right about Chillz, Smooove and Acie.

[shug94]

HOLE 1: Shooting percentage. His shooting percentages are simply too low. How can he remedy this? Better shot selection. Taking it to the hole more often. Practising his shot. Getting game-time experience to learn how to create off the dribble.

HOLE 2: Rebounding. He rebounds a bit, but nowhere near as good as a man his size should. If he worked on his footwork and positioning for a little while I think he could use that lower body strength of his to be an above average positional rebounder.

HOLE 3: Defense. His lateral speed is not good enough to play against other SF's. He can improve this through drills and playing defense on the toughest guys in his summer pick-up games. He is not strong enough to D up on PF's, so he needs to hit the weight room.

Those are the three main holes in his game, in my opinion. Other things could improve, but if he focused on these areas this offseason, and started next year 10% improved at each of these areas, then he would be a far better assett to this team.

[thesheedera]

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My cooworker told me today that Marvin told Roy Williams not to start him at North Carolina. He also said the guy lacks the fire to ever be great in the NBA.

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Who is your coworker?

[Zone034life]

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My cooworker told me today that Marvin told Roy Williams not to start him at North Carolina. He also said the guy lacks the fire to ever be great in the NBA.

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Who is your coworker?

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I brought that up to show that not everyone thinks Marvin will be a great player in this league. You don't think Marvin Williams was better than Jawad Williams?

[AHF]

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My cooworker told me today that Marvin told Roy Williams not to start him at North Carolina. He also said the guy lacks the fire to ever be great in the NBA.

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Who is your coworker?

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I brought that up to show that not everyone thinks Marvin will be a great player in this league. You don't think Marvin Williams was better than Jawad Williams?

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It is not that unusual for a heralded freshman to get significant minutes off the bench behind a veteran. For example, Ron Mercer was the Naismith High School Player of the Year and went to Kentucky where he came off the bench for the 1995-96 Cats. He wasn't benched because he wasn't one of the most talented guys on the floor. He was benched because he played on a team loaded with veteran talent that won a national championship.

[Zone034life]

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My cooworker told me today that Marvin told Roy Williams not to start him at North Carolina. He also said the guy lacks the fire to ever be great in the NBA.

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Who is your coworker?

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I brought that up to show that not everyone thinks Marvin will be a great player in this league. You don't think Marvin Williams was better than Jawad Williams?

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It is not that unusual for a heralded freshman to get significant minutes off the bench behind a veteran. For example, Ron Mercer was the Naismith High School Player of the Year and went to Kentucky where he came off the bench for the 1995-96 Cats. He wasn't benched because he wasn't one of the most talented guys on the floor. He was benched because he played on a team loaded with veteran talent that won a national championship.

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You may be correct but I thought I remembered hearing either Marvin telling the coach he didn't have to start or Roy Williams asking him and he said he did'nt mind if Jawad started. If you know the answer please fill me in.

[AHF]

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My cooworker told me today that Marvin told Roy Williams not to start him at North Carolina. He also said the guy lacks the fire to ever be great in the NBA.

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Who is your coworker?

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I brought that up to show that not everyone thinks Marvin will be a great player in this league. You don't think Marvin Williams was better than Jawad Williams?

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It is not that unusual for a heralded freshman to get significant minutes off the bench behind a veteran. For example, Ron Mercer was the Naismith High School Player of the Year and went to Kentucky where he came off the bench for the 1995-96 Cats. He wasn't benched because he wasn't one of the most talented guys on the floor. He was benched because he played on a team loaded with veteran talent that won a national championship.

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You may be correct but I thought I remembered hearing either Marvin telling the coach he didn't have to start or Roy Williams asking him and he said he did'nt mind if Jawad started. If you know the answer please fill me in.

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I don't follow UNC that closely!

[TexasPete]

What difference does it make?

[thesheedera]

What? You said a coworker said that Marvin asked not to start. I've never heard that before and I followed Marvin's freshman year about as close as you can follow a season of college basketball, which included reading every coach and player quotes to the press over the course of the season. Never once do I remember Marvin asking not to start.

He accepted his role like a professional, but I don;t recall him asking to play off the bench.

Your coworker must have some kind of inside scoop, or else he/she's just making things up. I wanted to know which one it was.

[Zone034life]

He was trying to say that it showed his lack of desire to be in the spotlight and that should have been a warning sign that he doesn't want to be a star.Just a complimentary piece on a team. I actually understood what he was trying to say seeing the Hawks won 30 games last season and Marvin has not expressed his desire to be the second option behind JJ.

[Diesel]

Actually, there are several stories that talk about him being happy being a complimentary piece. Even from his childhood... Marvin lovers won't hear that though, they think it's becoming. That may be what you want in a glue guy, but I don't think it's the makeup of what you find in a superstar... if so, find one superstar basketball player who would sit the bench with the game on the line...

[mrhonline]

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That may be what you want in a glue guy, but I don't think it's the makeup of what you find in a superstar...

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Depends on what you think of Manu Ginobili.

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if so, find one superstar basketball player who would sit the bench with the game on the line...

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Show me where Marvin ever said that. (Preferring to come off the bench is not the same thing as wanting to sit in clutch time).

[TexasPete]

That complimentary piece that you describe dominated in HS for 4 years, killed the AAU circuit, was one of the most sought after recruits, signed with one of the premier programs in college basketball history, and then became the #2 pick in the NBA draft at the age of...18.

Yeah, the kid has been suspect and his drive should be questioned.

Now, if you mean that Marvin has no problem playing team basketball then I'm fine with that. The NBA players usually lose to better international teams now despite having better individuals. If a player understands the basic concept of the whole being better than the sum of the individual parts then that gives him a leg up as far as I'm concerned.

Frankly, your "friend" is full of crap. Again, this is another attempt to slam MW and Diesel's Marvin hating imagination loves posts where phantom "experts" hear something negative about MW. This is the worst kind of heresay. No credentials other than "friend".

If Marvin does not progress this season then we can all be disappointed but until such time comes then these types of posts are worthless.

[Zone034life]

Wish I could have read this post before I went to work today but I will gladly ask him tommorow. I would like to know myself honestly.Although I did wonder why an all world recruit was coming off the bench. I think that is fine if he accepted that role in college because they won the national championship proving coach williams was right not to start Marvin. But as for the Hawks that isn't enough for a guy who has so many expectations.The Hawks need Marvin to be the second or third option not just a complimentary part. If Marvin doesn't step up then the Hawks would need someone else (Acie,Horford,Chillz,etc.) to step up and be a clutch performer. The spurs have the luxury to have Manu come off the bench. I don't know if the Hawks can be successful without Marvin averaging 17 pts, 8 rbs and 3 ass. Are those reasonable numbers to set for next season or am I to high or to low?

I would like to know what all of you guys think would be a good year for Marvin. Its time to curve this conversation from negativity to your expectations of Marvin.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Good year for Marvin:

Shooting: 47% or above FG, around 85% FT, and 33% 3FG

( This is the thing I want him to improve on, more than anything else. And if he becomes a better finisher from close range, it will. If he really becomes a good finisher around the rim, he has a chance to shoot around 50%. It is not imperative that Marvin increases his shooting range. If anything, I want him to do exactly what Luou Deng did, and become a mid-range MONSTER. Deng also finished well around the rim. )

Points: 15 - 18 ppg

( Marvin is either going to solidify himself as the #2 scorer on this team, or he's going to play within the team concept, and not try to force much. Horford is the wild card in how much Marvin averages a game. The more points Horford gets, the less likely Marvin will be that #2 scorer. Marvin's ability to knock down free throws may also help him in the scoring department. )

Rebounds: 5 - 7 per game

( I don't see Marvin becoming a more efficient rebounder. If Shelden's minutes increse, Marvin won't get many chances at rebounds. Smoove, Horford, and Shelden all have a shot to be over 6 rpg, with Smoove and Horford maybe grabbing 8 boards a game )

16.9 ppg . . 5.3 rebs . . 2 asst . . 49% FG . . 84% FT . . 33% 3FG

I would consider that a very good year for Marvin.

[TexasPete]

I agree with you 100% about what would make Marvin's year 3 progress acceptable. The fact that we have other options this season like a better Smoove, a rested JJ, a strong pair of new rookies, a year older Childress, and a healthier Claxton mean that Marvin's scoring will likely not jump by 4 or 5 ppg.

However, a 3 ppg improvement on a better team is fine. Plus, his rebounding needs to get to 7 and his defense should improve.

Diesel will still rag on him but the rest of us should be happy with 16/7.

[thesheedera]

I would have thrown out 16+ ppg 6.5+ rpg, 2.5+ apg, both as what I expect and what I think will indicate solid progression. I hope and expect to see a drop in the ratio of jump shots to all shots. Also, I'd really like to see improvement on is his PER. I don't think that's the be-all end-all by any means, but it can be a good measure of whether a player is positively or negatively impacting the team, or somewhere in between. I think Marvin's been too much of an in between guy so far.

I think he very rarely hurts the team when he's on the floor, but rarely can you say "gosh, he really carried us in that game/half/quarter". That needs to change, and to do so he needs to take more risk. He'll make more mistakes if he does so, but that's the only way to grow into an impact player.

The stats should improve, but most importantly I hope we see a more mature and proactive player on the floor, which is difficult to measure.

Two very different players can have 13 and 6 and have much different impacts on his team's ability to win.