Smoov for the long term? or will it be Marvin

[vdunkndunk]

Right now I'm liking what I see from Marvin more than what I see from Smoove. I love Smoove's shotblocking, rebounding, dunking, athleticism, and SOMETIMES his passing....but I hate his ballhandling, post-game, jumpshot, turnovers, and shot selection.

I just don't see how he improves his ballhandling much, but I could imagine him improving the rest of the negatives I mentioned. But Marvin just seems to fit at SF and he gives you what you need at that position, whereas Smoove is a bit of a 'tweener and I'm just not sure what his ceiling is.

Basically, if we could turn Smoove, some expiring contracts, and maybe Zaza or Shelden into someone like Pau Gasol or Jermaine O'neal, I'd probably do it. I just feel like Horford could give us a slightly bigger, more rugged, and more skilled PF, and if we could get a legit 7-foot all-star with a back-to-the-basket game, I think that's just what we need. Horford isn't as athletically gifted as Smoove and he'll never block as many shots, but I think he'll be a bounder rebounder, a more reliable scorer (hopefully) and a better team player.

The worst thing about trading Smoove though is that Hawks games would be a lot more boring without him.

[AtLaS]

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I don't see it. his form on his shot isnt very good. His jump hook doesn't look like anything special, and he is going to be shooting it over taller players most of the time. He has had a few blocked already.

I think people have been seeing things in Horford that aren't really there. Remember he is the same age as Smith and Marvin. I would like to see him score in double figures for the second time before i start projective offensive success for him.

As much of a headache as Smith can be he can make a big impact on a game (although sometimes it is a negative one). I just don't see Horford being an impact player. I see him sort of like Childress at the 4, solid but not special.

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So because he's a rookie and isn't scoring at will, you don't see him being an "impact player?" Players do improve, you know. Boozer averaged 10 and 7.5 his rookie season and he's now a 20 and 10 guy. Just because he isn't scoring at a rediculously high rate right now doesn't mean anything.

What would you expect in his first 6 games to tell you that he was going to be an "impact player"? It's not exactly easy to come in and average a double double in your first 6 games, especially given our horrible offense and the lack of getting easy baskets.

[DJlaysitup]

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Right now I'm liking what I see from Marvin more than what I see from Smoove...

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I do too - to a degree. You see - Marvin isn't tasked with as much as JS is.

Now it may be JS tasking himself - - that would be my guess.

Marvin can hit his jumpers and rebound now and then - but he doesn't have the impact on the game that JS has.

JS - on the other hand - takes considerably more weight on his shoulders.

[Yeti]

Tough subject since JS is a hometown boy.

Athletically, I'd take Josh but he seems to be a head case. Someone needs to sit him down and tell him what the real situation is - he seems to think he's MJ. So I'd have to take Marvin if forced to choose. But I think we can keep Horford, Josh, and Marvin. When you factor in rotations and injuries there are MORE than enough minutes for all of them.

We need to focus more on 1 and 5 - we need more help there. Just accept the wealth at forward rather than tear it down.

[Diesel]

I think you're hitting the nail on the head.

Just like the second string QB always looks good. A 3rd to 4th option scorer will look good especially if he's not the focus of the offense. We don't draw up plays for Marvin. He scores based on work. That's good, however, that also means that his scoring is not by design, it's by opportunity. Those opportunities are produced by our 1st and 2nd option scorers (in the offense). If we were to trade Smoove away, we better get a scorer like Gasol or Paul because otherwise, Marvin would have to step up with less opportunities.

[exodus]

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I don't see it. his form on his shot isnt very good. His jump hook doesn't look like anything special, and he is going to be shooting it over taller players most of the time. He has had a few blocked already.

I think people have been seeing things in Horford that aren't really there. Remember he is the same age as Smith and Marvin. I would like to see him score in double figures for the second time before i start projective offensive success for him.

As much of a headache as Smith can be he can make a big impact on a game (although sometimes it is a negative one). I just don't see Horford being an impact player. I see him sort of like Childress at the 4, solid but not special.

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So because he's a rookie and isn't scoring at will, you don't see him being an "impact player?" Players do improve, you know. Boozer averaged 10 and 7.5 his rookie season and he's now a 20 and 10 guy. Just because he isn't scoring at a rediculously high rate right now doesn't mean anything.

What would you expect in his first 6 games to tell you that he was going to be an "impact player"? It's not exactly easy to come in and average a double double in your first 6 games, especially given our horrible offense and the lack of getting easy baskets.

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Boozer was a much better scorer in college than Horford. Boozer is also bigger with a longer reach.

I have seen Horfords jump shot and hook and they don't look that good. He was billed as "NBA ready" but the only thing that looks NBA ready to me is his rebounding.

Basically i am in the same position i was last summer.People are attributing skills to Horford that i don't see when i watch him play.

[Nicholasp27]

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He has had a few blocked already.

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he has had 13% of his shots blocked

to compare, let's look at:

boozer: 11%

shaq: 8%

okafor: 12%

duncan: 7%

bosh: 10%

now, just focus on 'inside' shots, since so many bigs like to shoot jumpers...

horford: 13%

garnett: 11%

boozer: 13%

shaq: 12%

bosh: 20%

okafor: 16%

jermaine: 11%

gasol: 8%

amare: 7%

diaw: 19%

yao: 7%

not bad at all, considering most of the other guys get all-star calls for them, not rookie calls against them

draws foul:

horford: 24% of the time

garnett: 8.1% of the time

boozer: 13.7%

shaq: 13.8%

bosh: 21.2%

okafor: 26.3%

jermaine: 15.2%

gasol: 18.5%

amare: 11.9%

diaw: 4.8%

yao: 14.9%

only okafor draws the foul more of the big guys here...most of them get calls for them while horford gets rookie calls against him

think about that for a second...24% of the time horford tries to score, he is fouled...that is HUGE for our center to be able to do

i know, all of this is small sample size, but u guys are the ones who want to condemn horford after 6 games, saying he can't be an allstar or saying he can't play center

[pound4pound]

That is the truth about Woody's offense - it runs the center thru the high post and leaves a jump shoting 7 footer a wide open shot.

Our offense is designed for Rasheed Wallace, Vlade Divac, Pau Gasol, Rick Smits, Kevin Garnett, or dare I see even Jason Collier to be that high post man.

We don't have that person on this roster but we still try and run Sheldon, ZaZa, and Horford up high. Our coach is incapable of making the adjustments to fit his personnel - which is more up tempo.

Any armchair NBA coach can tell you we have three advantages on this roster - Youth, Athleticism, and Depth. We have one HUGE disadvantage - height. How does T-Lue pounding the ball for 23 seconds running around a Horford high screen accentuate our advantages and lessen our weakness?

Marvin or Smoove, it could be both! We run them to death so they only get 30 minutes a night, we win 50 games with the right cheme, Phillips is packed so we can afford to pay them both $10 million a year.

[Nicholasp27]

exactly

we need a coach that will play to our team's strengths

with chill backing up jj/marvin and horford/shelden able to backup smoove as well as play center with zaza, there is no reason for any of those guys to get much more than 30mpg

jj can get 35 as the star, but that leaves 157 mins for marvin/chill/smoove/horford/zaza/shelden = 26mpg...some like shelden may get 20, but u get the point...none of the guys NEEDS to play 35 or 40mpg...we have the depth such that there isn't much dropoff when starters go to the bench so let's utilize that

everyone can play closer to 30mpg and be fresher for when we play 6 games in 10 days and when we play back-to-backs...and we could then play hard ALL 48 mins of the game, not just 30 or 40 mins of the game

we would be so tough to beat if we played with 100% effort for 48mpg and we ran for 48mpg...we have the personnel...we just need the coach to set the right mindset and make the right rotation calls

also, we need someone to play pg with law...lue/aj don't cut it...speedy would, but he's not healthy...for now, going with chill/jj/marvin/smoove/horford for stretches when law is out may be our best bet...run that lineup for 10mpg, let law play 25-30mpg and lue more like 10mpg...and have a coach that won't let lue just pound it at halfcourt for 10 seconds at a time

[AtLaS]

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Boozer was a much better scorer in college than Horford. Boozer is also bigger with a longer reach.

I have seen Horfords jump shot and hook and they don't look that good. He was billed as "NBA ready" but the only thing that looks NBA ready to me is his rebounding.

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I figured the reach argument would come up, but frankly it doesn't help Boozer at all. Horford as a rookie is already a comparable rebounder to Boozer, and Boozer plays next to Okur which gives him many more opportunities to rebound. Horford is also already MILES better as a defender.

Boozer gets alot of easy finishes inside and has a good midrange J (he takes over 50% jumpers). Once Horford's J improves and we get some kind of offense, Horford will drastically improve offensively IMO.