It's time to Bite The Bullet for some of us...

[BHayley]

Mike Woodson is a good coach right now.

I was an adamant supporter of Woodson the last 3 years and really got pissed with him after lackluster halves (1st Minny game, Chicago game) this year, but I can't hate on what he's doing.

Jdu made the same post last week, but that was before these last couple of games.

Our defense is looking incredible right now--we could've used Nazr M. but I am satisfied now. Every shot is being contended, teams are running low on shot clocks, and there are fewer and fewer easy baskets every game for our opponents.

Unfortunately, once Lue comes back, Lue will resort to him for whatever reason.

Of course the offensive substitution patterns could be a bit better, but it was wonderful seeing Mario get 19 minutes last night.

My only complaints right now for Woodson are he needs a better offensive playbook and to keep one of our big 3 (Marvin / JJ / Smoove) in at ALL times.

Our team has gotten better to a .500+ (hopefully) level as it has gotten older, and this can be attributed to Woodson's developments of the players.

Hopefully we can gut out a win against Utah tomorrow (I think Okur is out), and then the feeble Miami Heat Wednesday.

[DavidSomerset]

Woody has done a very good coaching job so far this year.

To have such a young team at 11-12 with the schedule we've had, while playing such spectacular defense...I am completely content with him.

Not too many coaches would have this team at a better record than we are at right now.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just don't change your mind if Deron and Boozer come in here, and take it to us. Hawksquawk opinions tend to wildly change, based on one win or one loss.

Woody is an average coach, not a bad or good one. I've always said that, even last year. People wanted to blame Woody for all of our problems last year, and not the injuries. But we were pretty much in the same position last year, that we are this year.

Last year, we were 8 - 10 with Marvin not playing any, Speedy hurt off and on, Lue just getting hurt to begin a 3 week absence himself, and Chill in the middle of a 4 week injury hiatus himself. Yet, this team was surviving.

Then we lose JJ for 4 games, and lose 3 out of 4, only beating Memphis by 1 or 2. We get Marvin and JJ back, but then Smoove goes down for 8 games. By the time we get most everybody back off of injury, we've lost 11 out of 12 games, and we're pretty much done.

The difference this year is . . .

- (( knock on Wood and pardon the pun )) JJ, Marvin, and Smoove haven't had some sort of extended injury

- even though the PGs are hurting, AJ has been steady enough to keep us afloat

- all of the experiences that our core group has been through for the past 3 years, have made them mentally tough. They just don't panic even when they're playing like ish ( unlike the fan base ).

- and Woody has always known that defense has to be the thing that gets us to the next level. That's why role players like Ivey, Bozeman, and now Mario, have always played, when they probably shouldn't see the floor.

People can complain about the offense, but if we're a consitent defensive team, we're going to be in just about every game we play. If the Hawks are going to be a "grind it out" team that can consistently win without scoring 95 points in a game, then so be it. Even in some of the games we've lost this year when the offense had been horrible, we were very much in the game until the defense breaks down for a 5 minute stretch.

When the Pistons won their title a few years ago, they were one of the more lackluster offensive teams in the league. But they could ugly things up and slow you down on the other end . . hence the term . . DEEEEEE-TROIT BASKETBALLLLLLLLLLLL.

Like I said three weeks ago, this team is built to DEFEND, not to run. Our running is always going to come about because we've played excellent defense on the other end. But we're definitely a team that can't force the run. Woody did try to make us run, but he quickly realized that we were turning the ball over by the boatloads, when we tried. That's when we slowed down the pace, concentrated on taking better shots, and really started making an effort to shut down teams.

The result is the Hawks being winners of 8 of 12 games.

[BHayley]

Exactly.

Sorry about all the typos in my post. Didn't feel like editing.

I am DYING to see what this team would look like if Acie, Childress and Speedy were all COMPLETELY healthy

We'd have NO reason to use T.Lue, and having those guys driving the lane would open up outside shots.

Request for Woody: LEAVE PLAYERS OUT UNTIL THEY'RE FULLY HEALTHY (see Acie, Childress)

[Dexmethylphenidate]

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Exactly.

Sorry about all the typos in my post. Didn't feel like editing.

I am DYING to see what this team would look like if Acie, Childress and Speedy were all

COMPLETELY healthy

We'd have NO reason to use T.Lue, and having those guys driving the lane would open up outside shots.

Request for Woody: LEAVE PLAYERS OUT UNTIL THEY'RE FULLY HEALTHY (see Acie, Childress)

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And don't play them 35 minutes the night they come back.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's hilarious on how only a few people have commented on this thread. Woody is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Woody is the "hip-hop music" of coaching. When something bad happens, blame hip-hop. If hip-hop puts out something good, people cry about it not putting out enough good.

Woody is hip-hop.

[coachx]

The team is playing their tails off. Thumbs up to Woddy for holding it together. Big win considering West was the only bench guard we had off the bench.

Big Props to Smith and Marvin for their play of late. Add JJ geting hot to that and the team is rolling pretty well. Hopefully we can get the bench healthy. With that, things would be going as well as can be expected.

We have played some really good games lately (Bobcats and Grizz game). The Jazz will be a heck of a test. Their well coached and execute on both ends of the floor. A team without any real weakness.

The only area I see us attacking is Horford on Okur. Hopefully Okur won't light us up with 3's. If we keep the Jazz's 3 point shooting in check we have a good shot to win.

[Swatguy]

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It's hilarious on how only a few people have commented on this thread. Woody is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Woody is the "hip-hop music" of coaching. When something bad happens, blame hip-hop. If hip-hop puts out something good, people cry about it not putting out enough good.

Woody is hip-hop.

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I have recognized Woody's merits for some time. And players have too. Many Ball-type guys have (Kevin Willis, 'Nique and others) said much the same. Woody has taught and father'd these players for 3+ years. Simply, when the players buy into the message, we win.

[TroyMcClure]

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Woody has done a very good coaching job so far this year.

To have such a young team at 11-12 with the schedule we've had, while playing such spectacular defense...I am completely content with him.

Not too many coaches would have this team at a better record than we are at right now.

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That's not necessarily the point. When judging Woodson, you have to look at the whole body. I've seen enough to know that if we get to the point of being a playoff team, he will invariably fail us.

I think we really could have been much further along in the rebuild if we had had a different coach. He's striving for mediocrity it seems.

Having said that... I must say that we are finally beginning to run some offense and look a little like a professional team. Kudos to Woody.

We'll cross the "he's not good enough make us an elite team" bridge when, and more importantly if, we ever come to it.

[BHayley]

If he's such an incompetent coach, how would he get us to the playoffs in the first place?

[Dexmethylphenidate]

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If he's such an incompetent coach, how would he get us to the playoffs in the first place?

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There are many proofs to suggest he's a below average coach; there are too many to list. Perhaps someone will make a thread to list how bad a coach he is after a game. The talent on his team alone will win despite him... even though they are not maximized to their potential.

I'm anxious to see his subs when Lue, Salim and Chillz gets back from injury.

[DavidSomerset]

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Woody has done a very good coaching job so far this year.

To have such a young team at 11-12 with the schedule we've had, while playing such spectacular defense...I am completely content with him.

Not too many coaches would have this team at a better record than we are at right now.

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That's not necessarily the point. When judging Woodson, you have to look at the whole body. I've seen enough to know that if we get to the point of being a playoff team, he will invariably fail us.

I think we really could have been much further along in the rebuild if we had had a different coach. He's striving for mediocrity it seems.

Having said that... I must say that we are finally beginning to run some offense and look a little like a professional team. Kudos to Woody.

We'll cross the "he's not good enough make us an elite team" bridge when, and more importantly if, we ever come to it.

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That's a matter of opinion.

Not that my opinion is any more qualified...Most people here know way more about basketball than me, however, the one thing that no one can argue with is wins and losses relative to the level of talent on the team.

He has been given a crappy roster in his 4 years here, and has overachieved relative to the amount of NBA ready talent on those teams.

Only this year of his tenure should any cogent, realistic fan have had the idea that we SHOULD, or even really could make the playoffs...And as of right now, it is looking like a very great possibility (I think Hollinger has it at 75%).

I believe that Woody has this team playing about as well as any "good" coach would be.

Since when do teams this young play such great, disciplined defense?? It is completely uncharacteristic of the age of the players we have...And that is 100% due to Woody's attitude of preaching DEFENSE, DEFENSE, DEFENSE ever since he got here.

As I've said before, there are a number of things Woody does that I do not agree with, and I do not think he is anywhere near a perfect coach, BUT as long as he continues to exceed my expectations of WINS and LOSSES for the roster than he is given, I am not going to complain one bit.

Sitting where we are right now this year (7th in the Eastern Conference), I think it would be absolutely ludicrous to say that we have not OVERACHIEVED.

Very, very good coaching job by Woody so far this year...He is a great leader for these players...They are really developing.

[MikeWilksBooth]

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He has been given a crappy roster in his 4 years here, and has overachieved relative to the amount of NBA ready talent on those teams.

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So you consider winning 30 games max as over achieving?

[DavidSomerset]

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He has been given a crappy roster in his 4 years here, and has overachieved relative to the amount of NBA ready talent on those teams.

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So you consider winning 30 games max as over achieving?

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I consider winning 30 games with the youngest team in the NBA when your 4-5 best players are injured and out for extended periods of time to be a pretty dang good showing.

It is important to take absolutely every circumstance into account.

You can't just compare Woody to Flip Saunders (just an example) and say he is worse...Flip has a much more experienced and BETTER NBA ready talented team.

Now that our players are getting older, the wins come easier...Think that is a coincidence?

No one should EVER realistically expect much of anything from the youngest team in the NBA.

[AHF]

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If he's such an incompetent coach, how would he get us to the playoffs in the first place?

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I think that is all a question of expectations.

Given the state of the Eastern Conference, the talent on this team, and the length of time Woodson has had to imprint his system, I would not view it as "getting us into the playoffs" since I think that the team should be in the playoffs but for catastrophic injuries or a coaching failure.

If you view this team as lacking the talent of a playoff team I could definitely see a view that Woodson is "coaching them up" to overcome their lack of talent and make the playoffs.

If you view this team as easily having playoff talent then missing the playoffs is a huge indictment of the coaching and being one of the last teams in the playoff mix isn't much of an accomplishment.

Personally, I think this has been Woodson's best job as a coach so far - although I still get frustrated with his lack of creativity on offense. He has underacheived with this group in the past even given our youth (in my opinion) but has them close to on track this year. A major step up for him and the team.

[MikeWilksBooth]

30 games in the eastern conference is amazing....I can't support Woody because once Lue is back it's all going downhill

[AtLaS]

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as long as he continues to exceed my expectations of

WINS and LOSSES

for the roster than he is given, I am not going to complain one bit.

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That's just not a way to measure a coaches ability. Because you aren't evaluating anything other than wins and losses, you aren't evaluating games that COULD have been won, and small things he does that deter the team in the wrong direction.

Do you think Chicago fans expected to win 49 games in 04-05 when they started the season 0-9??

Do you think Toronto expected to finish 3rd in the East last season after almost everyone predicted them to have one of the worst records in the NBA??

No, they didn't. The problem is that this team (Hawks) has a LOT more talent than just being an 11-12 team. Toronto didn't look like they had a good roster last season, until they made the playoffs. The Bulls didn't look like a good roster in 04-05, until they made the playoffs.

Evaluating on mere wins/losses on the basis of NOTHING else just isn't evaluating a coach, at all.

[DavidSomerset]

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as long as he continues to exceed my expectations of

WINS and LOSSES

for the roster than he is given, I am not going to complain one bit.

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That's just not a way to measure a coaches ability. Because you aren't evaluating anything other than wins and losses, you aren't evaluating games that COULD have been won, and small things he does that deter the team in the wrong direction.

Do you think Chicago fans expected to win 49 games in 04-05 when they started the season 0-9??

Do you think Toronto expected to finish 3rd in the East last season after almost everyone predicted them to have one of the worst records in the NBA??

No, they didn't. The problem is that this team (Hawks) has a LOT more talent than just being an 11-12 team. Toronto didn't look like they had a good roster last season, until they made the playoffs. The Bulls didn't look like a good roster in 04-05, until they made the playoffs.

Evaluating on mere wins/losses on the basis of NOTHING else just isn't evaluating a coach, at all.

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In the world of sports, wins and losses are literally the only thing that matter.

The Hawks have a lot of RAW and YOUNG talent relative to other NBA teams...But look at the age of our best players....Considering the amount of "NBA ready" talent, we should NOT be better than 11-12 so far this year.

11-12 with this team, given our schedule is overachieving for this roster.

Hope Woody keeps up the good work.

[AHF]

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BUT

as long as he continues to exceed my expectations of WINS and LOSSES for the roster than he is given, I am not going to complain one bit.

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You predicted about 38 or 39 for this season so he is pretty much on pace.

I am not sure what you predicted for the last few seasons seasons but I imagine the win totals weren't much lower than the 13 (worst in the entire league by 5 games); 26 (third worst in the entire league); and 30 win (4th worst in the entire league) results.

[AtLaS]

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In the world of sports, wins and losses are literally the only thing that matter.

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Yes, but there are things that coaches do and don't do that DETERMINE wins and losses, and you are ignoring that. You aren't evaluating Woody on what he ACTUALLY does.

Again, in 04-05 most Chicago fans would have been happy with 35 wins (at BEST), considering how young they were and starting 0-9. So you would have applauded a coach that achieved 35 wins that season, even though we now know that they were a 47 win team?? Obviously you would have. The problem is that you would've overlooked that hypothetical coaches' fallacies just because he won as many games as you personally expected. When if you actually looked back at some of the things he did wrong, you would realize that more games could have been won.

Not only that, just because YOUR PERSONAL expectations are 38 wins, doesn't mean everyone else feels that way. I feel this team could win 45 games easily, and we have the talent to do so. Yeah we are young, but most of the players are already MORE than capable NBA players. Our young players have lots of experience, our youth is no longer so much that it deters us from making the playoffs IMO. I agree that we are too young to be a contender, but we are NOT too young to make the playoffs. Obviously you don't think we are a playoff team by only expecting 38 wins, which is really underrating our talent IMO.