Marvin Williams improvement

[Atlantaholic]

I was looking at Marvin's stats this morning and comparing his stats from this year to last year and I could see almost no improvement.

The FG% is up by 20% and... well, that's basically it. His MPG are up by 2 and his scoring is up by 2 points. His rebounding and assists are basically identical... Furthermore if you look at his per 36 his numbers from his first seaason are pretty much just as good as this years stats...

I guess his recent "injury" will be brought up... However, last year he had the wrist injury which affected his play for the first few weeks he played in, so I think those factors cancel each other out.

I think at this point we have to look at Marvin's development as a disappointment (aside from the fact that we should not have drafted... based on his own merits).

Seeing as how depth is a huge problem for this team, and how Childress basically makes Marvin redundant, I would be all for trading him for a pair of solid players (Parker/Garbajosa).

I would probably give him another year to see if he can show signs of becoming a Rudy Gay type player... having said that, if a good deal was out there for Marvin, I would trade him without much hesitation

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

I think at this point we have to look at Marvin's development as a disappointment (aside from the fact that we should not have drafted... based on his own merits).

Marvin Williams has improved this year per48 TENDEX but considering he was young and had a poor rookie season suggesting he could only be expected to improve rapidly and still somehow got worse last year the improvement this year is insubstantial.

Per48 TENDEX

05-06 16.66

06-07 16.42

07-08 19.83

He's still only the 6th best player statistically on our team and just ahead of the recently trade Anthony Johnson (19.17). Sorry for a #2 pick. Meanwhile JS is putting up a per48 TENDEX of 27.84 and Horford 21.76 as a rookie.

I too would trade MW. His cost to resign will be inflated over his value because of his former pick status. However, that same inflation applies to his trade value. I think we can get more for MW than he gives us.

W

[ATLSmith]

This is just a hunch, but I think that we will keep our core players for next season. This includes Marvin. Woodson will be replaced. BK and the ASG will want to see what a new coach can do with the same players (and hopefuly a new big, from where I don't know).

If things aren't going well for some of the players by mid season, there's a good chance that they will be traded then.

I'll admit that Mavin has some work to do, but he won't be traded away just yet. I like his determination and work ethic. This guy wants to win badly and will take the steps to get there.

[mrhonline]

His numbers were improved through January, and his defense is markedly better.

It's obvious to any unbiased fan that his wrist injury was affecting his shooting. I'm not going to throw him under the bus because of one bad month when he's clearly less than 100% and still playing hard on D.

[Lacsho]

Quote:

---

His numbers were improved through January, and his defense is markedly better.

It's obvious to any unbiased fan that his wrist injury was affecting his shooting. I'm not going to throw him under the bus because of one bad month when he's clearly less than 100% and still playing hard on D.

Man, don't you know, around here they throw everyone under the bus. It doesn't matter if they're hurt or not. JJ has been hurt, and the bus trampled him. They threw Bibby under the bus after one bad game. Chillz gets thrown under the bust through out the season. It just doesn’t' stop. These fans are like Georgia's weather, one should always keep a coat, because they change daily.

[Atlantaholic]

Quote:

---

His numbers were improved through January, and his defense is markedly better.

It's obvious to any unbiased fan that his wrist injury was affecting his shooting.

Are you referring to last years injury? What does that have to do with his current slump? Supposedly it's his thigh that is injured now. (supposedly, though I haven't seen any sign of his thigh hindering his game over the last two weeks)

Marvin hasn't been consistent at any point of his career... And it has a lot more to do with the fact that he is exclusively a mid range jumpshooter with no other offensive skill except putting his head down and driving into defenders' chests for fouls. He is Wesley Person without as good a touch or range and with slightly better athleticism.

His defense is improved, but it's not like he is a great defender. He is at best pretty good, but mostly average.

I think we can get more value out of him through a trade

[mrhonline]

Quote:

---

Are you referring to last years injury?

Please tell me you noticed his wrist has been taped up for weeks.

Quote:

---

Marvin hasn't been consistent at any point of his career...

That's absurd. Even his harshest critics admitted he was our most consistent player the 1st half of the season.

Quote:

---

His defense is improved, but it's not like he is a great defender. He is at best pretty good, but mostly average.

His defense the last month has been the best on the team at times. As usual, no one notices.

Quote:

---

I think we can get more value out of him through a trade

Trade him for what? The only thing the Hawks need is a center - something Marvin wouldn't net.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Marvin hasn't been consistent at any point of his career...

That's absurd. Even his harshest critics admitted he was our most consistent player the 1st half of the season.

I would argue that it wasn't a "half" but a quarter and it was the ONLY quarter MW has ever been ANY good. You're right, he's consistently average.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

His defense is improved, but it's not like he is a great defender. He is at best pretty good, but mostly average.

His defense the last month has been the best on the team at times. As usual, no one notices.

For the year MW is only the 7th best Hawk in terms of opponent's production. I believe that you are not only mistaken but a fool to say such things.

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708ATL.HTM

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I think we can get more value out of him through a trade

Trade him for what? The only thing the Hawks need is a center - something Marvin wouldn't net.

If he's so GD "consistent" and valuable as you suggest then he would net a center. I agree that MW alone might not net a center, but he AND ZaZa (a replacement at center and an expiring contract) could.

W

[Murat]

Quote:

---

Marvin hasn't been consistent at any point of his career...

Stop it right there mister. He was our most consistent player untill about mid Janury. You can say whatever you want, but i watched every freaking game and my eyes don't lie.

P.S I am not fuckking blind!!

Marvin has sucked lately though, he has been "consistently" bad.

[Murat]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

His defense is improved, but it's not like he is a great defender. He is at best pretty good, but mostly average.

His defense the last month has been the best on the team at times. As usual, no one notices.

For the year MW is only the 7th best Hawk in terms of opponent's production. I believe that you are not only mistaken but a fool to say such things.

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708ATL.HTM

W

hahaha i watch games and if Marvin is our 7th best defender than we are best defensive team on the planet. If we don't hold teams to only about 50 point a night than we suck.

Walter throw the stats aside and tell me, Do you really believe that Marvin is only our 7th best defender? be honest. I think he is our 2nd best defender, Joe being the first.

The reason Marvin is 7th in your "stat" book is because he guards other teams best players.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

I was looking at Marvin's stats this morning and comparing his stats from this year to last year and I could see almost no improvement.

The FG% is up by 20% and... well, that's basically it. His MPG are up by 2 and his scoring is up by 2 points. His rebounding and assists are basically identical... Furthermore if you look at his per 36 his numbers from his

first seaason

are pretty much just as good as this years stats...

I guess his recent "injury" will be brought up... However, last year he had the wrist injury which affected his play for the first few weeks he played in, so I think those factors cancel each other out.

I think at this point we have to look at Marvin's development as a disappointment (aside from the fact that we should not have drafted... based on his own merits).

Seeing as how depth is a huge problem for this team, and how Childress basically makes Marvin redundant, I would be all for trading him for a pair of solid players (Parker/Garbajosa).

I would probably give him another year to see if he can show signs of becoming a Rudy Gay type player... having said that, if a good deal was out there for Marvin, I would trade him without much hesitation

I hear the excuse train getting crunk. It will be rumbling through this thread in a moment. TexasPete will be driving with Thesheedera on the caboose.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

I was looking at Marvin's stats this morning and comparing his stats from this year to last year and I could see almost no improvement.

The FG% is up by 20% and... well, that's basically it. His MPG are up by 2 and his scoring is up by 2 points. His rebounding and assists are basically identical... Furthermore if you look at his per 36 his numbers from his

first seaason

are pretty much just as good as this years stats...

I guess his recent "injury" will be brought up... However, last year he had the wrist injury which affected his play for the first few weeks he played in, so I think those factors cancel each other out.

I think at this point we have to look at Marvin's development as a disappointment (aside from the fact that we should not have drafted... based on his own merits).

Seeing as how depth is a huge problem for this team, and how Childress basically makes Marvin redundant, I would be all for trading him for a pair of solid players (Parker/Garbajosa).

I would probably give him another year to see if he can show signs of becoming a Rudy Gay type player... having said that, if a good deal was out there for Marvin, I would trade him without much hesitation

Your point is true and noteworthy. Marvin hasn't improved much of anything else. His shot is falling, but increased minutes doesn't amount to increased output.

[Atlantaholic]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Marvin hasn't been consistent at any point of his career...

Stop it right there mister. He was our most consistent player untill about mid Janury. You can say whatever you want, but i watched every freaking game and my eyes don't lie.

P.S I am not fuckking blind!!

Marvin has sucked lately though, he has been "consistently" bad.

Well, that's kind of my point. He hasn't had a good full season since he has been here.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Marvin Williams has increased his efficiency every year in the league

2005-2006

Marvin Williams

9.5 EFF

171st in NBA

4th page (151-200)

2006-2007

Marvin Williams

12.5 EFF

115th in NBA

3rd page (101-150)

2007-2008

15.3 EFF

81st in NBA

2nd page (50-100)

He has moved up on the page of significance in that category every season. His rookie year, he was on the 4th page of the 151st-200th most efficient in the league. That is not good company at all. It's scrub territory.

His first year as a starter last year he moved up to the 3rd page of the 101st-150th most efficient players in the league. That's the respectable starter page. You are now among the great role players in the game like Tayshaun Prince.

In Marvin's 2nd year a starter this year, he has again jumped an entire page to the 2nd page. He's now among the 50th-100st most efficient players in the league. Now you're approaching the familiar names.

Will Marvin move to the 1st page of household names in the top 50 next year? Maybe, maybe not.

But to say that he has shown no signs of progression considering the jumps of efficiency is a little absurd.

[Atlantaholic]

Quote:

---

That's absurd. Even his harshest critics admitted he was our most consistent player the 1st half of the season.

The fact he was good for two months of the season and bad for two months of the season is the definition of inconsistancy... I don't know why you are arguing when you are agreeing with me.

Since December Marvin's FG% is 40%... During the first half it was over 50% that is a huge dropoff

Quote:

---

His defense the last month has been the best on the team at times. As usual, no one notices.

He's not shutting anyone down ever. Also, considering how abysmal our defense has been as of late, this is faint praise at best.

Quote:

---

Trade him for what? The only thing the Hawks need is a center - something Marvin wouldn't net.

I would trade him for a long list of players... We probably could have gotten Artest for Marvin.

[Atlantaholic]

Quote:

---

Marvin Williams has increased his efficiency every year in the league

2005-2006

Marvin Williams

9.5 EFF

171st in NBA

4th page (151-200)

2006-2007

Marvin Williams

12.5 EFF

115th in NBA

3rd page (101-150)

2007-2008

15.3 EFF

81st in NBA

2nd page (50-100)

He has moved up on the page of significance in that category every season. His rookie year, he was on the 4th page of the 151st-200th most efficient in the league. That is not good company at all. It's scrub territory.

His first year as a starter last year he moved up to the 3rd page of the 101st-150th most efficient players in the league. That's the respectable starter page. You are now among the great role players in the game like Tayshaun Prince.

In Marvin's 2nd year a starter this year, he has again jumped an entire page to the 2nd page. He's now among the 50th-100st most efficient players in the league. Now you're approaching the familiar names.

Will Marvin move to the 1st page of household names in the top 50 next year? Maybe, maybe not.

But to say that he has shown no signs of progression considering the jumps of efficiency is a little absurd.

You have to look at his numbers per minutes played man. Obviously.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Quote:

---

You have to look at his numbers per minutes played man. Obviously.

And other guys in the league aren't logging solid minutes?

BTW, Marvin is averaging a whopping 1.4 more minutes per game this year vs last year.

He's just a better basektball player this year even with the latest slump

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

He's just a better basektball player this year even with the latest slump

I wonder what Joe's numbers look like compared to last year!

[Atlantaholic]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

You have to look at his numbers per minutes played man. Obviously.

And other guys in the league aren't logging solid minutes?

BTW, Marvin is averaging a whopping 1.4 more minutes per game this year vs last year.

He's just a better basektball player this year even with the latest slump

He is not that much better... and he is getting worse.

His rookie year was stronger than his sophomore year.

His improvement from his rookie year to now, has not been big at all. He isn't doing anything better this year than last... except drawing a few more fouls.

He was a #2 pick... I simply expected more of him in his third year. I think most people did.

[pimp]

JJ is a proven scorer , that faces double teams night in and night .

You cant compare JJ to a player that scores most of his points on open jumpshots , due to JJ getting doubled.