$50+M for Terry?

[jezmund]

I think we both are kind of thinking from the same perspective on this issue. Although all of the specifics aren't the same, the ideas are similar. I felt like I was on my own for a second there.

[Double_Dribble]

this is ridiculous. where is your retraction on the kevin willis thing? nevermind, i get the feeling you don't do those things.

on to your argument.

first of all, the only chemistry that damon and qyntel know right now is mary jane. alright, cheap shot, but right now, that's all they've earned.

secondly, damon is not as good a pg as jt is right now. maybe he was four years ago, but that guy has fallen off the wagon. if mo cheeks, who knows pg's, doesn't trust him, then why should we?

third, your plan would have us blowing everything up again in two years when the doobie brothers don't work out. jt still produces, and the fact that there wasn't a single ballhandler, not one, on the team except jt, was a big reason why the team was abysmal in turnovers.

this team was top 10 in offensive fg% and defensive fg%. the other teams that were made the playoffs. the difference was the turnovers. having other ballhandlers with jt should make the difference.

fourth, terry stotts likes to run. we saw that more as the season went on, stotts encouraging the team to get out in transition. as the defense improved, so did the transition game. a full camp with stotts should clarify this further.

lastly, knight and vaughn have proven to be backups, and nothing more. once knight's contract runs out, he will be min vet every year until he is through, and vaughn has been cast aside by three teams now and will likely be a vet min as well until he is ignored by the league.

on another note, at what salary would you consider jt to be worth signing? for how long?

personally, i don't see a 7 year, 50 million dollar contract being that bad, especially when he starts at around 5 million.

[Diesel]

First.... Even MJ used the sticky weed. He got caught but you didn't hear about it.

Secondly, Damon hasn't run an offense in a long time. Remember, in PTL he has Shared PG duties with Anthony, Pippen, Anderson, McInnis, and Daniels. Here, he would be the man. I think Butch Carter (of all people) used D.S. the best. The idea of a rotating PG and an offense run through the Forwards and SGs have made D.S. seem like a worse gaurd than he is.

Third. Two years will be an interesting time anyway. I doubt that Stoudamire won't work out. IN fact, it was reported that he worked out with the Hawks for the last 2 summers (being that he's a resident of Atlanta) and he looked darn good. I think in 2 years, he'd take the big Pay Cut to remain with us at home (as we hope Shareef would). If we can get both guys under contract for Say 17 million together, we'd still have 23+ million to spend on FAs. That could mean ANYBODY.

In reply to:

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ourth, terry stotts likes to run. we saw that more as the season went on, stotts encouraging the team to get out in transition. as the defense improved, so did the transition game. a full camp with stotts should clarify this further.

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One thing you're missing. Terry is not a PG. It would be much easier to run with a guy who can run an offense. I suggest you look over Stoudamire years as a Raptor. He ran and ran often.

I would sign JT to a 6 year deal between 32 and 36 Million. With a team option at 4 and a Player option at 5. However, 50 million? NO. He's not worthy. He's a Shooting gaurd.

[beav]

Portland would not have a need or interest in taking out our garbage. They would never take robinson. In addition to having zero need at small forward whether pippen leaves or not, they aren't going to take anymore players (paul allen called a rare press conference last month to guarantee it) with any big blotches on their personal records. They certainly wouldn't take their chances on a guy that they don't even need, that plays no defense, and has recently gone through his legal bumps.

Stoudamire is definitely better in a running offense, I agree. However, the inherent problems involved with a 5-9 3/4 guard that needs to shoot 25 times a game minimum and carries a career 41% FG percentage should be obvious.

[Guest]

Stoudamire sucks a left nut.If the guy was so good

he wouldn't he buried in Portland.Look at what Stoudamire

did a decade ago???I also remember that David Robinson

was a MVP back then....That doesn't mean anything

now.

The guy is about like a Kenny Anderson.Heck,Stoudamire

is just barely better than Brevin Knight.

While I agree that JT is not much of a PG,Your obession

with scrubs like Kenny Anderson,Brevin Knight, and offering

a 10MPG Willis 4 million a year???Who really cares if

Damon is from Atlanta....or Willis lives in Atlanta...or

Kenny Anderson played for GA Tech.Who really cares?

Just because they live or where born here doesn't mean

we bring them all here.

Stoudamire is a short and pudgy guy that can't shoot

and opponents double off and leave him open.

[jjjohns3]

You say JT is a SG in a PGs body, so why do you constantly want to trade for Damon Stoudamire?Who is shorter,doesn't have a will to distribute{unlike JT,who atleast wants to try PG to help the team} & has a more bloated contract,not to mention he's a pothead.

~Peace

[KB21]

Because Diesel has always been against Jason Terry for whatever reason. He never intended to give him a chance, and now that Jason Terry has proven him wrong, he just won't let go. He comes up with these hair brain ideas for trades, and he overvalues every player on the Hawks team except Jason Terry.

Jason Terry puts up numbers that are comparable to Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis, but Diesel likes to overlook that.

The thing that should really be putting a craw into Diesel is the fact that JT is garnering more interest than anyone thought he would on the market.

But, the fact remains, the Hawks will match pretty much any offer that isn't outlandishly rediculous for Jason Terry.

[Diesel]

KB,

I'm not against JT. IN fact, I think he will be a very important part of this team. ONCE we put him in his right position. I mean, it's been 4 years KB. HOW LONG do you think we ought to continue to search for that complimentary piece to play beside JT? Think about it realistically....

This year, we spent our first round Pick getting a guy who is of NO USE to us unless JT is here. It's not our first attempt at this either. Our first attempt was signing EMAIL to a 2 year deal. If you learned nothing from the EMAIL saga, you learned that:

1. Having a complimentary player does NOT help the development of JT as a PG.

2. When the Complimentary player gets Hurt, What then?

It's been 4 yrs KB. Mike Wilks can come off the street and do a better job of being a PG than JT. Why is that?

And what's worst than the inability to recognize JT for what he is, is the Blame game. How many people have taken the blame because JT doesn't fit?

From JJ to Deke to Knight to Lon to Babcock to Grob to soon to be SAR. All these guys are taking the blame for Losses when we have a SG playing PG. But the funniest part is you who defend him. You guys say... "well, he's never been given a chance to play PG". It's been four years. Most of the reason JT hasn't played Much PG was because he doesn't like being the PG. Even his father said that he prefers being the OG.

Now, once we realize the truth about JT, there are some realistic conclusions that we must come to.

1. Finding a complimentary player is going to be difficult. There are only a handful of KNOWN players that can compliment JT.

a. Odom

b. Penny

c. Barry

d. G. Hill

e. Pippen

f. Payton

That's a very small List of OGs and Point forwards. Most of them are Old or injured.

2. Diaw is an Untested Rookie.

You say that he was this and that in Europe? Well that means very little. You say that he was the guy who they put on the other teams best perimeter player. Whoopta [censored] Do. However, I don't think none of those guys were players like Tmac, Kobe, or Ray Allen.

Diaw is untested by our standards. To suggest that he's going to be a starter is wishful thinking. Right now, I have more trust that Hansen will turn out to be a good solid player than Diaw will be a starter.

You say well in Europe he played.... Well so did Tskitishvili. This is what they said about him:

In reply to:

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At just 18, is one of the top overall prospects in Europe. Very precocious feel for the game. Excels in many aspects. Can shoot from long range, battles for rebounds. Struggles defensively, but just needs time to develop his strength. Has very good agility and can run the floor. Great offensive touch. Could grow another few inches. Talk in Europe is that he will be better than Pau Gasol. Will probably end up at 7-1.

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The guy I have seen play is far from being better than Gasol.

[Guest]

Diesel you are forgetting some names...

Gaines?

Eric Snow

Stackhouse?

But you are right.We all wanted JT to be the PG...But he

just can't do it and I don't think he could if he wanted too.

He thinks he's the PG just because he averaged 7APG.

[jjjohns3]

He WON'T think he's a PG until he averages 7 apg & leads us to the playoffs. And look at the names you mentioned KB, he puts up similar numbers to Marbury & Francis,true. But look who's playing the 2guard in their offenses!!! That's the difference.

~Peace

[Diesel]

It's more than just the 2 gaurd... Marbury played in Minn where his 2 gaurds were Malik and Peeler. Both of those guys are shooters, neither one is really a ball handler. Francis has had the luxury of having Mobley there, but Francis might score a lot, but he also is a good PG. He might put up high points and turnovers, but when you watch Houston play, it's not like he's just out there at the 1 position. He's actually running the offense. JT is just out there.

[Traceman]

the time! Their offense mainly consisted of trying to see who had the mismatch and letting that player try to beat his man individually. It got a LITTLE more structured after Yao got there but still, they didn't really run set plays that often. That was one of Rudy T's biggest critcisms before he was basically forced out of the job. Francis and Terry play the game in a similar fashion, Francis is just a better, more athletic player. He's no more of a "true PG" than JT is and if anything, he has shown LESS ability than JT to run a team.

As for Marbury, he too is a better player than JT but he DID have more ballhandling help in Minnesota than JT did last year. KG is a 20/12/6 guy and Googs was an EXCELLENT ballhandler and passer at PF. In addition, Peeler and Sealy both handled the rock better than Ira ever has.

[Traceman]

you think Reef deserves a RAISE from the $14.6 million he will be making 2 years from now? PLEASE! I'd MUCH rather pay JT a deal that averages $7 million/season than to pay Reef a deal that averages over $18 million season. That is what you suggest by saying that Reef's salary will go up when he becomes a FA. No way in [censored] is Reef worth THAT much more than JT. I'd MUCH rather pay JT $6.5 million or so in 05/06 and go after another FA (or FAs) with the $16 million or so we would have to pay Reef for his "raise" than to pay Reef $16 million and not have to pay JT's $6.5 million.

Do you realize that if we gave Reef a raise in 05/06 as you suggest and signed him to a 7 yr deal, we would pay him AT LEAST $27 MILLION DOLLARS in the last year of that deal? TWENTY SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS for a guy who has never won more than 35 games in a season! Meanwhile, JT would make around $9 million in the last year of his $50 million deal. Reef [censored] sure ain't worth $18 million/season more than JT. JT's HUGE contract? Give me a break man! JT's contract at $50 million is chump change compared to what will be paying Reef if we give him a raise when his current deal expires.

All that being said, if we gave JT a $50 million deal, we could STILL sign Reef to a max deal in 05/06 (I wouldn't) and STILL have upwards of $16 million to go after FAs. The only players we would have under contract would be JT at $6.5 million or so, Nazr at $5.5 million or so and Reef at $16.4 million or so.

You say that we overrate our players but I think more often than not, people here UNDERRATE our players when comparing them to players of other teams. That DEFINITELY is the case if you guys think that Stoudemire is as good as JT. How many teams do you hear trying to make deals to acquire Stoudemire right now?

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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It got a LITTLE more structured after Yao got there but still, they didn't really run set plays that often. That was one of Rudy T's biggest critcisms before he was basically forced out of the job.

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OMG, I can't believe this. First off, they did run offenses. Many. As a matter of fact, one of the criticisms of Griffin was that he's developing because there were too many plays to learn. Houston does look for mismatches, but a lot of times, there are 2 man games with Backdoor cuts. That's why Mobley and Francis put up so many Alley Opps. Or did you think that was a natural part of their game. Had you noticed that Mobley and Francis still alley opp when the other guy with the afro and the long socks replaces one of them??

One more thing. Rudy T. wasn't forced out??? Rudy T. has Cancer? Gosh.... Get it right.

[Traceman]

There is a reason he shared the PG duties with all those guys. He is not that good! You act like Anthony, Daniels and McInnis are All Stars or near All Stars. They aren't and Stoudemire is not good enough to clearly distance himself from any of them.

As for Pippen and Anderson, I sure wish JT had the benefit of playing alongside talented guys like that as Stoudemire does. JT might be an All Star if we had one of those guys at SG or SF.

If Reef is going to take a pay cut to stay in Atlanta, why not give that money to JT instead of sorry a$$ Stoudemire? Actually, if Reef would return for a salary starting at $14 million, we would only be paying him and JT around $20 million for the 2 of them. I'd MUCH rather pay Reef and JT $20 million than to pay Reef and Damon ANYWHERE NEAR that amount.

Stoudemire as a Raptor was a shoot first PG on a TERRIBLE team. He didn't run that team and he didn't make his teammates better. He was their only real offensive threat and played as such.