$50+M for Terry?

[jezmund]

If Terry is offered that much from Denver than we need to say bye. We shouldn't spend more than we were planning to to keep a player that is getting too much from some other team. I'd almost rather pickup Speedy Claxton at around $4M per season than resign Terry at like $7-8M per.

[Diesel]

If Denver or Utah decides to throw big Money at Terry, it could be like when Detroit threw Big Money at Koncak. Do we match? Do we let him go? I say we evaluate what's around? For those of you who really want to get rid of Grob, I say:

If Denver offers 50 million,

1. Take the Loss on Terry.

2. Trade Grob/Nazr to PTL for Stoudamire/Woods/future 1st.

3. Sign DJ and let the brawl begin.

Stoudamire/DJ/Woods/SAR/Theo

or

Stoudamire/Hansen/DJ/SAR/Theo

or

DS/DJ/Diaw/SAR/Theo.

[Diesel]

IF Denver makes an offer to JT.... 50 million.

I would let JT go.

Sign Vaughn.

Then trade: Nazr/Dickau to Memphis for Battier/Knight.

Sign DJ.

Sign McCoy

I would have:

Knight/Vaughn

DJ/Diaw

Grob/Battier/CC

SAR/Hendu

Theo/McCoy

[Guest]

Well if we lose JT for nothing we will not have enough

talent anyways.Dermarr sucks as a player....Theo is

injury prone and we have no go-to guy.If JT leaves

without us getting a sign and trade we might aswell

trade Shareef and Dog and just start over.We will not

have enough talent to make the playoffs.

[TheDude]

could we just sign and trade him...if we see denver is going to offer that much, maybe we talk to denver about a sign and trade so they won't have to pay as much...

[jezmund]

Yeah I've thought about some kind of sign-and-trade where we don't take the same amount of salary back necessarily but we get a decent young player in return. For example, if we lossed him to Utah, maybe we could get Harpring in return. It's definitely better than nothing. Than we could turn around and trade Grob for Stoudamire.

Stoudamire/Diaw/Harpring/SAR/Theo

Actually, now that I think about it, if JT leaves for basically nothing, we might need to look at trading SAR for some depth.

[jjjohns3]

If we lose JT then we just wasted a draft pick on Diaw,If we expected JT to leave we would've taken Howard. We only drafted Diaw so he could complement JT in the backcourt.

~Peace

[jezmund]

If we lose Terry, I'd push for a trade with Portland.

Grob/Nazr/CC for Stoudamire/D.Anderson works

Stoud/Dickau

Anderson/Hansen

Diaw/DJ?

SAR/Hendu

Theo/???

Portland would have....

McInnis/??

Wells/??

Grob/Patterson/Woods

Wallace/Randolph

Davis/Nazr

Obviously, Portland wouldn't probably stop there.

[Double_Dribble]

vaughn and brevin did little while they were here, save for showing that they can't start at pg in the nba.

here is orlando, desperate for pg help, telling vaughn to see you later, that should say more than a mouthful.

jt has his flaws, but they pale in comparison to the flaws of these other players that are listed.

sometimes folks can only see the good in the players on other teams, but go out of their way to see the bad on players on their own teams. it's the same with every team.

it's unlikely that other teams will pay that much for jt, but if we had to pay him 7 years and 50 million, i would do it.

besides diesel, you are willing to pay a 40 year old kevin willis a 2 year, 9 million dollar deal to come off our bench, so what's wrong with paying 7 million a year for a young guard who can actually make a positive difference like jt?

[Diesel]

So JT cost us, JT Plus another first rounder.

What happens if Diaw gets hurt?

[Diesel]

First, Vaughn and Brevin did play the PG position here. If Brevin or JT were 6'8, Brevin would have never left Atlanta. Brevin was offensively and defensively the PG we needed here. Unfortunately, he was too Short to play beside JT.

Vaughn on the other hand, wasn't as Polished or as good defensively as Knight, but Vaughn could run an offense better than JT. Whatever problems Vaughn found in Orlando, that's a different team. Sorta Like Toni in Philly. Nobody knows why Toni didn't work in Philly, but he didn't. Has nothing to do with his ability.

I'm not going to say that JT has flaws. You keep trying to put words in my mouth. I'm saying that JT is a SG. Plain and Simple. That's not a flaw. The flaw is that we don't want to recognize it. However the whole league has. Read anything about JT outside of Atlanta. It will tell you, SG trapped in a PG body. Sound familiar? Thats because that's what he is.

Lastly. ABout Willis. I think Willis is what we needed Last year. When we had the roster space, I wanted Willis instead of Ira. I thought that him being back there would be good. Our offense needs size. Right now, I don't see Willis taking a vet min. Contract. The man just helped shut down Shaq on his way to the finals. If Theo is 235 and Nazr is 245.. We will need somebody here that is about 260 to help even out our roster. I was saying 1 year for the MCE. However, if you want to see if he'd take 2 year 4 million or 3 year 6 million... go ahead. The point is that we can use him.

[Double_Dribble]

first of all, you said 2 years, 9 million for Willis.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....;o=0&fpart=

secondly, brevin was being exposed by the likes of chris whitney nightly when he was here (and when he was healthyly, which isn't often). he's too small to play with anybody and get abused because of it. like boykins in golden state, he can play a useful role off the bench, but that is all.

thirdly, vaughn didn't work in utah, he didn't work here, and now he hasn't worked in orlando. that's quite a trifecta.

lastly, jt isn't a prototype pg, but listen to billy knight when he says that jt is a GUARD, and a dang good one. so what did knight do? he got another GUARD to play with jt.

he isn't restricted to pigeonhole designations for players, he simply sees great talent.

[Diesel]

Actually, I did Listen to Billy Knight.

Billy Said JT is the best SHOOTER On our team.

http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/Billy_Knight...s-79011-33.html

When Billy said we want to free up JT so that he can SHoot the ball, what do you think he means?

Free him up from what?

Messing up the PG position of this team. You see, Even Billy Understands that JT IS NOT a PG.

You guys keep trying to make it sound like being a SG trapped in a PG's body is something NEW? You keep calling him not the norm. Try this on for Size.

JT is the same as Iverson.

The exact same MOLD. Too Short to be a SG but plays just like one. JT does NOTHING remotely similar to a PG. He runs the offense about as well as Alan Houston and Micheal Jordan Could. He sees the defense about as well as Alan Houston and Micheal Jordan could when they tried to play PG. Remember, MJ put up what looked like Impressive Assist numbers as a PG... However, his team chemistry sucked. Just Like Iverson.

Stop fighting the truth. JT is NOT a POINT GAURD. Not by nature and he's resisting training. He's a SG. If he were 6'7, nobody in their right might would try to make him a PG. So why try NOW?

[Double_Dribble]

Knight says that jt is a GUARD, and doens't bother to tie up jt with a label...he set against that.

he thinks jt has a numerous amount of skills that works well on a team. so knight went out and got a backcourt player or two that he thought would work well with those skill sets.

you keep making it sound like jt is just a SG, when Knight says he is a G. why try and label him? knight doesn't want jt to be the ONLY one handling the ball, and therefore he brings in someone to let jt move around when the time calls for it.

last year, that wasn't an option because there was nobody else BESIDES jt to handle the rock. now there is.

so stop the labeling, be it pg or sg, and let's see what happens when there are two guards in the game, blending skill sets.

maybe then you'll get the best out of jt and the backcourt in whole.

[Traceman]

You guys balk at signing JT to a $50 million deal and yet you are willing to pay Damon "Freakin" Stoudemire $30 million for the next TWO years? WTF? Even worse, you guys are willing to pay Stoudemire $14,625,000 next year when JT's first year salary in a $50 million deal would be no more than $5.5 million? If that's not bad enough, you guys are willing to pay $15.75 million for Stoudemire in 04/05 when JT would be receiving no more than $6.2 million in 04/05? My God! Dog is a downright bargain at $10 million this year and $12 million next year when compared to what Stoudemire will make over the next 2 years.

But all that is almost beside the point. JT is BETTER than Stoudemire! Period! JT lights Damon up every time we play Portland. You think JT has limitations, look at Damon. He can't guard my grandmother, he is no more a "true PG" than JT is (he's a scoring PG) and when he plays a lot, he turns the ball over more than JT does. He put up big numbers in Toronto on a HORRIBLE team A LONG TIME AGO. His numbers in Portland have been nothing special and they [censored] sure don't warrant $30 million over 2 years. You mean to tell me that you think Damon is almost $10 million/season better than JT! Puhlease!

On top of that, you want to bring in Stoudemire AND Qyntel Woods? Why, so they can come in here and teach our guys how to roll blounts and hide weed from the cops? You CAN'T seriously think that a lineup of:

Theo

Reef

Woods

DJ

Stoudemire

is better than

Theo

Reef

Dog

DJ (or Diaw)

JT

The 2nd squad is equal to or better than your squad at EVERY position! Not to mention we lose depth at Center because we have no one to backup Theo. We don't gain ANY capspace to help with luxury tax issues. The deal just SUCKS!

And don't get me started on sorry a$$ Jacque Vaughn. HE SUCKS! Orlando is DESPERATE for PG help and this guy can't cut the mustard when playing with one of the top 3 players in the NBA plus a bunch of shooters.

BREVIN KNIGHT? Come on man! He is not much better than Vaughn. He is an injury prone little runt who can't make a wide open 10 foot J. To make things worse, his salary nesxt year is within $500,000 of what we will pay JT next year if we give JT a $50 million deal.

As for Willis, you don't see him taking the vet min? He's 75 years old, that's all he's going to get! You think his stock went up last year because he had a few good moments in the playoffs? Not likely. He is a year older. If he's lucky, his stock won't go DOWN. I'm sure SA will offer him the vet minimum to return and he might go back there. That being said, I would certainly offer him no more than 2 yrs at the vet minimum because that's all he worth. Kenny Anderson, Walt Williams, Adreian Griffin and other FAs are going to be playing for the vet minimum or not much more. Why would Willis get any more than those guys?

This is another classic case of Hawks fans overvaluing players on other teams and undervaluing our guys. Utah and Denver have interest in JT to play POINT GUARD. How many folks are recruiting Stoudemire, Knight or Vaughn to play PG? UT and Denver are not recruiting JT as a SG. Kiki is well respected around the league for his ability to evaluate talent. If he thinks JT is a good PG, he's a good PG. In addition, you think Jerry Sloan would want JT at PG if he can't play the position? Man oh man oh man!

[Packfill]

Amen! (no religious conotations intended).

[sinctybldh]

Thank you Traceman. After I read some of these posters opinions I shook my head. Amazing how some of these people come up with these ludicrous ideas.

[cyman3]

thank u traceman... i tried my best to stay out of this post as much as possible... why? it wasnt worth explaining.

But u did it anyways.. thanks dude

[jezmund]

Of course the 2nd lineup is better. Damon Stoudamire's salary and JT's have nothing to do with eachother. We would have 7 yrs. of JT at more than he is worth. If we can't win with what we have now, how are we suppose to put together a winning team when SAR salary will go up when he becomes a FA, no one would seem to want to play for us unless we over pay them, and we have JT's huge contract. Stoudamire is obviously overpaid as are Robinson and Crawford, the two that would probably be traded for him if it were to happen. They are all also signed for the same amount of years remaining. Can we do better than Stoudamire? I'm sure we can.... that was just a random idea for conversation purposes. Stoudamire is undersized and turnover-prone, yada yada yada. Let's just forget that the players on our team play for our Hawks for a moment and try to form an unbiased opinion about them. Chances are, we overrate our own quite a lot. None of us work in a front office and have any clue about what is actually going on except for maybe JayWalker to some exstent. That's what we all do is just throw out ideas. Would I do the trade I mentioned, not definitely, but I would look into and give it some thought if it were an actual possibility. It's hard for me to see if I think a trade will actually help us unless I put it down and let it sink in a little.

[Diesel]

I disagree with your evaluation of EVERY position.

I posted the trade because if we were in a battle to keep JT and the cost was 50 million dollars, I say let him walk. I mention the D.S. trade because I know that PTL is looking to trade him and would probably take Dog/CC/Hendu and some of our other bad contracts to get rid of him.... PLUS Woods. I think Woods will be a decent player but I wouldn't make him a starter just yet.

The point is that D.S. Is still a better PG than JT could ever be. D.S. Contract ends in 2 years. IF we were to sign JT to a 50 million dollar deal, more than Likely, JT would be a long term signing. I'd rather have 2 years of D.S. than 7 years of JT at an average of 7 million+ a year. I just don't think he's worth it. I think it would handcuff us because eventually we'll find out that he's a SG and that we have wasted a lot of time trying to find the right player to play beside him.

The other advantage of this trade is chemistrywise, it gets rid of Big Dog and Makes us a Running team. Regaurdless of who you put in at SF, we can run. IF we decided to play Woods there (for Example), we take a leap forward Chemistry wise. I would also love to get rid of CC's contract in the process.

So.... You have mentioned the minus' from your perspective. Here is the explanation from mine.

1. JT is not worth a 50 million dollar deal.

2. D.S. is a better PG than JT.

3. We lose Salaries like Big Dog/CC/Hendu.

4. We get building blocks for the future (Woods).

5. We maintain a style. What are we now? A running team? A halfcourt team? We have to be one or the other. We see that Both don't work when you don't have the right PG.

Also, there are other options... .LIke D. Armstrong (why do you think we called) or Knight or Vaughn or any other capable PG.