NBA has new Age Limit

[NJHAWK]

According to fox sports Stern has come to an agreement with the NCAA to raise the age limit to 20. That will mean guys cant come out till after their sophmore year. I think this is VERY GOOD. It still has to be agreed to by the nba players assoc. but its expected the nba pa will pass it.

[AHF]

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According to fox sports Stern has come to an agreement with the NBA PA to raise the age limit to 20. That will mean guys cant come out till after their sophmore year. I think this is VERY GOOD.

I agree. I am definitely an advocate of getting more experienced and more marketable rookies in the league. Al Horfords rather than Al Jeffersons.

[Admin]

That is excellent! We have already started seeing the last age increase doing wonders for rookies coming into the league with at least a year of college under their belts. Making it 2 years should really help to develop players and it should make college basketball a lot more interesting as well.

Will that affect this years draft?

[NJHAWK]

I goofed with that 1st post. I meant to say the nba pa still has to agree to it. It said that they most likely will and the nba will give in on something else to make it happen but it didnt say what. As far as I can tell by reading the article it wont take effect till 2011 when the cba ends. I think they can get it done sooner though. Prolly before the 2009 draft.

[ATLSmith]

Good news for the NBA. Great news for the NCAA.

[exodus]

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According to fox sports Stern has come to an agreement with the NCAA to raise the age limit to 20. That will mean guys cant come out till after their sophmore year. I think this is VERY GOOD. It still has to be agreed to by the nba players assoc. but its expected the nba pa will pass it.

Getting agreement from the NCAA isn't that tough. Getting an agreement from the NBA Players Association is a different story. It has to be collectively bargained and i am not sure when this deal is up.

I doubt the players will just rubberstamp it.

[AHF]

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As far as I can tell by reading the article it wont take effect till 2011 when the cba ends. I think they can get it done sooner though. Prolly before the 2009 draft.

I seriously doubt they will implement it before the next CBA goes into place unless there is some major concession by ownership (which I view as being unlikely). I am sure the NBA PA will want something before agreeing to this kind of a change.

[NJHAWK]

Just reading the article it seems like the nba and nba pa already have a deal in place or know what it will take to get a deal done and think it will get done. I dont see any reason for Stern to have a press conferance today just to say they are almost there but need approval from the nba pa. That NCAA guy said the nba would give in on something to make it happen but he didnt know what. You are right about it prolly not going down before 2011 but if they can come to an agreemnent than just maybe it will happen next year.

[Lascar78]

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Getting agreement from the NCAA isn't that tough. Getting an agreement from the NBA Players Association is a different story. It has to be collectively bargained and i am not sure when this deal is up.

I doubt the players will just rubberstamp it.

I agree.

I thought they should have made it 2 years in the first place.

But honestly it's very strange. Keeping younger players out helps current NBA players, so I never understood the opposition. I get that they are looking out for the college guys too, but it's not the college players' union, it's the NBA players' union. It's in their interest, the NBA's interest, and the NCAA's interest to do this. The only people who lose are the occasional high school / college players who could go pro earlier, and they don't have a say.

[Diesel]

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According to fox sports Stern has come to an agreement with the NCAA to raise the age limit to 20. That will mean guys cant come out till after their sophmore year. I think this is VERY GOOD. It still has to be agreed to by the nba players assoc. but its expected the nba pa will pass it.

I see it for what it is.

It's not to help the league and it's not to help these young men. The move will force good players to stay in college for the sake of college. I wouldn't be surprised if Stern is getting a kickback.

I mean dang... to date, players who leave early (1 year and less) are still doing a lot better than player who play over 2 years. I want the Players Union to vote it down... but the benefit for them is that guys who SUCK who don't deserve to be in the league will still get to occupy a roster spot because good players will be stuck in college.

[AHF]

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According to fox sports Stern has come to an agreement with the NCAA to raise the age limit to 20. That will mean guys cant come out till after their sophmore year. I think this is VERY GOOD. It still has to be agreed to by the nba players assoc. but its expected the nba pa will pass it.

I see it for what it is.

It's not to help the league and it's not to help these young men. The move will force good players to stay in college for the sake of college. I wouldn't be surprised if Stern is getting a kickback.

I mean dang... to date, players who leave early (1 year and less) are still doing a lot better than player who play over 2 years. I want the Players Union to vote it down... but the benefit for them is that guys who SUCK who don't deserve to be in the league will still get to occupy a roster spot because good players will be stuck in college.

You think Stern is getting kickbacks on this and that is the reason he wants it? I don't buy that at all. He just wants guys to enter the league with more maturity and more marketability. It is the same reason the NFL and MLB both use restrictions on when people can enter the draft. Given the star system in the NBA, a guy like Greg Oden would be literally drafted in 8th grade (if not earlier) if there were not age limits.

[Diesel]

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According to fox sports Stern has come to an agreement with the NCAA to raise the age limit to 20. That will mean guys cant come out till after their sophmore year. I think this is VERY GOOD. It still has to be agreed to by the nba players assoc. but its expected the nba pa will pass it.

I see it for what it is.

It's not to help the league and it's not to help these young men. The move will force good players to stay in college for the sake of college. I wouldn't be surprised if Stern is getting a kickback.

I mean dang... to date, players who leave early (1 year and less) are still doing a lot better than player who play over 2 years. I want the Players Union to vote it down... but the benefit for them is that guys who SUCK who don't deserve to be in the league will still get to occupy a roster spot because good players will be stuck in college.

You think Stern is getting kickbacks on this and that is the reason he wants it? I don't buy that at all. He just wants guys to enter the league with more maturity and more marketability. It is the same reason the NFL and MLB both use restrictions on when people can enter the draft. Given the star system in the NBA, a guy like Greg Oden would be literally drafted in 8th grade (if not earlier) if there were not age limits.

Marketability...

You don't think Kobe, JO, KG, Smoove, Jefferson, Lebron, Mello, Durant, Oden, and company of others who was drafted with 1 year of less of college aren't marketable?

Check this out.

This year. Derrick Rose and Beasley will come out. Brandon Rush and Tyler Hansbrough will come out. Who is the most marketable?

My point is that staying in school doesn't really improve the players chances as a pro. Moreover, the only group being helped in this situation is college basketball. College basketball is being killed by the 1 and done... even though, the next year they get another group. College basketball is fending for matchups like Rose vs. Oden or Durant vs. Beasley. What would they have given to have Mello's Syracuse team vs. UNC with Felton and company. However, this doesn't help the players. Any of those players get hurt in those first 2 years and guess what... that's their career. They are James Forrest.. and they've played too long.

[AHF]

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Marketability...

You don't think Kobe, JO, KG, Smoove, Jefferson, Lebron, Mello, Durant, Oden, and company of others who was drafted with 1 year of less of college aren't marketable?

That is disingenuous. No one said guys who go straight from high school aren't marketable. Someone like Al Jefferson, however, is a lot less marketable than someone like Kevin Durant or Carmelo Anthony because they weren't promoted in college basketball.

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Check this out.

This year. Derrick Rose and Beasley will come out. Brandon Rush and Tyler Hansbrough will come out. Who is the most marketable?

That isn't the right question. The question is whether a two year college star is more or less marketable than someone who skips college. For a guy like Lebron, it doesn't make a difference. For guys like JR Smith, Josh Smith, Rashard Lewis, etc. they are much more marketable with college success than as young reserves in the NBA.

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My point is that staying in school doesn't really improve the players chances as a pro. Moreover, the only group being helped in this situation is college basketball. College basketball is being killed by the 1 and done... even though, the next year they get another group. College basketball is fending for matchups like Rose vs. Oden or Durant vs. Beasley. What would they have given to have Mello's Syracuse team vs. UNC with Felton and company. However, this doesn't help the players. Any of those players get hurt in those first 2 years and guess what... that's their career. They are James Forrest.. and they've played too long.

The NBA is helped by this in several ways. First, teams get an additional two years to scout players. They still are going to make drafting mistakes but they are much less likely to draft a Kwame Brown or Martell Webster high in the draft if they are more developed and there is more opportunity to scout them. That leads to teams making wiser investments of capital. James Forest and Kwame Brown could be the poster children for this. Teams are saying "thank goodness we didn't waste a pick on Forest" and are wishing they had never wasted such a high pick on Brown.

Second, the players come in more ready to contribute. Anyone think that Sebastian Telfair wouldn't have been a lot more ready to contribute with more experience? JR Smith? Jermaine O'Neal? Monte Ellis? Louis Williams? Andray Blatche? Third, the players come in with more people caring about them and more exposure that the NBA did not have to pay for. Imagine a guy like Louis Williams after a few years of college exposure compared to now.

[mrhonline]

I can actually see the NBPA agreeing to this because it means less roster space being taken up by unproven teenagers with "upside."

[Diesel]

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Marketability...

You don't think Kobe, JO, KG, Smoove, Jefferson, Lebron, Mello, Durant, Oden, and company of others who was drafted with 1 year of less of college aren't marketable?

That is disingenuous. No one said guys who go straight from high school aren't marketable. Someone like Al Jefferson, however, is a lot less marketable than someone like Kevin Durant or Carmelo Anthony because they weren't promoted in college basketball.

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Check this out.

This year. Derrick Rose and Beasley will come out. Brandon Rush and Tyler Hansbrough will come out. Who is the most marketable?

That isn't the right question. The question is whether a two year college star is more or less marketable than someone who skips college. For a guy like Lebron, it doesn't make a difference. For guys like JR Smith, Josh Smith, Rashard Lewis, etc. they are much more marketable with college success than as young reserves in the NBA.

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My point is that staying in school doesn't really improve the players chances as a pro. Moreover, the only group being helped in this situation is college basketball. College basketball is being killed by the 1 and done... even though, the next year they get another group. College basketball is fending for matchups like Rose vs. Oden or Durant vs. Beasley. What would they have given to have Mello's Syracuse team vs. UNC with Felton and company. However, this doesn't help the players. Any of those players get hurt in those first 2 years and guess what... that's their career. They are James Forrest.. and they've played too long.

The NBA is helped by this in several ways. First, teams get an additional two years to scout players. They still are going to make drafting mistakes but they are much less likely to draft a Kwame Brown or Martell Webster high in the draft if they are more developed and there is more opportunity to scout them. That leads to teams making wiser investments of capital. James Forest and Kwame Brown could be the poster children for this. Teams are saying "thank goodness we didn't waste a pick on Forest" and are wishing they had never wasted such a high pick on Brown.

Second, the players come in more ready to contribute. Anyone think that Sebastian Telfair wouldn't have been a lot more ready to contribute with more experience? JR Smith? Jermaine O'Neal? Monte Ellis? Louis Williams? Andray Blatche? Third, the players come in with more people caring about them and more exposure that the NBA did not have to pay for. Imagine a guy like Louis Williams after a few years of college exposure compared to now.

There's nothing disingenuous about any of my point. It is what it is. The best players in basketball right now didn't go to college at all. Kobe, KG, Lebron, JO, Mello etc.. 1 year of college may have enhanced their career by giving them some more name recognition... However, the fact that they didn't go to college doesn't seem to be a stumbling block.

AND..

Anybody will tell you.. The college game and the pro game are different games... and the pro game is not trying to be the college game and viceversa. IF you don't believe that.. ask yourself... how many great college coaches have been successful as pro coaches?

Uhm... Lon Kruger...

Uhm... Tim Floyd...

Uhm... Calipari.

Uhm... Carlisemo...

Really, the only name that fits is Larry Brown. and he was a pro coach first...

[exodus]

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Kobe, KG, Lebron, JO,

Mello

etc.. 1 year of college may have enhanced their career by giving them some more name recognition... However, the fact that

they didn't go to college

doesn't seem to be a stumbling block.

Melo won the NCAA title.

Nobody knew who JO was until he went to Indy.

Kobe wasnt very marketable at all his first couple of years as a reserve.

[AHF]

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Marketability...

You don't think Kobe, JO, KG, Smoove, Jefferson, Lebron, Mello, Durant, Oden, and company of others who was drafted with 1 year of less of college aren't marketable?

That is disingenuous. No one said guys who go straight from high school aren't marketable. Someone like Al Jefferson, however, is a lot less marketable than someone like Kevin Durant or Carmelo Anthony because they weren't promoted in college basketball.

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Check this out.

This year. Derrick Rose and Beasley will come out. Brandon Rush and Tyler Hansbrough will come out. Who is the most marketable?

That isn't the right question. The question is whether a two year college star is more or less marketable than someone who skips college. For a guy like Lebron, it doesn't make a difference. For guys like JR Smith, Josh Smith, Rashard Lewis, etc. they are much more marketable with college success than as young reserves in the NBA.

Quote:

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My point is that staying in school doesn't really improve the players chances as a pro. Moreover, the only group being helped in this situation is college basketball. College basketball is being killed by the 1 and done... even though, the next year they get another group. College basketball is fending for matchups like Rose vs. Oden or Durant vs. Beasley. What would they have given to have Mello's Syracuse team vs. UNC with Felton and company. However, this doesn't help the players. Any of those players get hurt in those first 2 years and guess what... that's their career. They are James Forrest.. and they've played too long.

The NBA is helped by this in several ways. First, teams get an additional two years to scout players. They still are going to make drafting mistakes but they are much less likely to draft a Kwame Brown or Martell Webster high in the draft if they are more developed and there is more opportunity to scout them. That leads to teams making wiser investments of capital. James Forest and Kwame Brown could be the poster children for this. Teams are saying "thank goodness we didn't waste a pick on Forest" and are wishing they had never wasted such a high pick on Brown.

Second, the players come in more ready to contribute. Anyone think that Sebastian Telfair wouldn't have been a lot more ready to contribute with more experience? JR Smith? Jermaine O'Neal? Monte Ellis? Louis Williams? Andray Blatche? Third, the players come in with more people caring about them and more exposure that the NBA did not have to pay for. Imagine a guy like Louis Williams after a few years of college exposure compared to now.

There's nothing disingenuous about any of my point. It is what it is. The best players in basketball right now didn't go to college at all. Kobe, KG, Lebron, JO, Mello etc.. 1 year of college may have enhanced their career by giving them some more name recognition... However, the fact that they didn't go to college doesn't seem to be a stumbling block.

First, the best players in the game didn't go to college at all? That hasn't been a real trend.

Dirk MVP 2007 - Foreign. No possible college.

Steve Nash MVP 2006 - College.

Steve Nash MVP 2005 - College.

Kevin Garnett MVP 2004 - No college.

Tim Duncan MVP 2003 - College.

Tim Duncan MVP 2002 - College.

Allen Iverson MVP 2001 - College.

Shaq MVP 2000 - College.

Second, there is no question that the elite players can succeed jumping straight to the NBA (although Kwame Brown is an example of an elite prospect who sure didn't).

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AND..

Anybody will tell you.. The college game and the pro game are different games... and the pro game is not trying to be the college game and viceversa. IF you don't believe that.. ask yourself... how many great college coaches have been successful as pro coaches?

Uhm... Lon Kruger...

Uhm... Tim Floyd...

Uhm... Calipari.

Uhm... Carlisemo...

Really, the only name that fits is Larry Brown. and he was a pro coach first...

Wow. That is a pretty remarkable tangent.

Tell me what of these points you dispute because I am not sure where you are going:

1) As a general rule, all but the truly elite high school players are more marketable entering the NBA having played in college rather than entering straight from high school.

2) As a general rule, NBA teams can better scout a college sophmore than they can a high school senior.

3) As a general rule, better scouting leads to more predictable draft picks.

4) As a general rule, players who play at least 2 years in college are better prepared to play their first year in the NBA than they would have been their first year straight out of high school. [Note that for point 4, these players are being compared against the younger version of themselves so it is a comparison of Kobe after two years in college versus Kobe in high school rather than Kobe versus some other player.]

[Diesel]

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AND..

Anybody will tell you.. The college game and the pro game are different games... and the pro game is not trying to be the college game and viceversa. IF you don't believe that.. ask yourself... how many great college coaches have been successful as pro coaches?

Uhm... Lon Kruger...

Uhm... Tim Floyd...

Uhm... Calipari.

Uhm... Carlisemo...

Really, the only name that fits is Larry Brown. and he was a pro coach first...

Wow. That is a pretty remarkable tangent.

Tell me what of these points you dispute because I am not sure where you are going:

1) As a general rule, all but the truly elite high school players are more marketable entering the NBA having played in college rather than entering straight from high school.

2) As a general rule, NBA teams can better scout a college sophmore than they can a high school senior.

3) As a general rule, better scouting leads to more predictable draft picks.

4) As a general rule, players who play at least 2 years in college are better prepared to play their first year in the NBA than they would have been their first year straight out of high school. [Note that for point 4, these players are being compared against the younger version of themselves so it is a comparison of Kobe after two years in college versus Kobe in high school rather than Kobe versus some other player.]

Here's the thing.

It's not a tangent... it was the point. The college game and the pro games are different. Hence, how does the college game prepare a player for playing the pro game better than the pro game would. Yes, I'm saying that it's more meaningful for a player to sit the bench and workout with the pros (IF he has the skills) than for him to go to college.

How many Adam Morrisons, Tyrus Thomas's, Shelden Williams, Adam Bogut, Shane Battier's most there be before you see that being successful in the college game means very little on the pro stage?

Everybody loves to call Kwame Brown and Telfair. However, for everyone of those guys, there's another player who never went to college who is dominating the game. For every one of them, I can point out about 4 guys who went to college who are doing less than they are!

[AHF]

All you need to say is "agree or disagree" with the 4 statements I posted. Obviously, if you want to explain go for it but I want to see where it is we disagree. From your last post, I still can't tell what you agree with and what you disagree with. You aren't a guy who dodges stuff like this, D! Just "Agree" or "Disagree" with or without an explanation for each of the 4 statements above (in bold). I'll make it easy:

1. Agree/Disagree - Optional Explanation:

2. Agree/Disagree - Optional Explanation:

3. Agree/Disagree - Optional Explanation:

4. Agree/Disagree - Optional Explanation:

[Diesel]

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All you need to say is "agree or disagree" with the 4 statements I posted. Obviously, if you want to explain go for it but I want to see where it is we disagree. From your last post, I still can't tell what you agree with and what you disagree with. You aren't a guy who dodges stuff like this, D! Just "Agree" or "Disagree" with or without an explanation for each of the 4 statements above (in bold). I'll make it easy:

1. Agree/Disagree - Optional Explanation:

2. Agree/Disagree - Optional Explanation:

3. Agree/Disagree - Optional Explanation:

4. Agree/Disagree - Optional Explanation:

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1) As a general rule, all but the truly elite high school players are more marketable entering the NBA having played in college rather than entering straight from high school.

Agree. with explanation: Very vague to say both general rule and elite players. You limit the field in the question to the point that there must be agreement. I mean, if we're not talking about a HS player who is now elite, who are we talking about?? If I were to mention that Sebastian Telfair and J.R. Smith had a lot of hype behind them or if I were to mention that Kwame Brown had a lot of hype behind him... what would you then say.... "I was talking about a general rule... there are exceptions".

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2) As a general rule, NBA teams can better scout a college sophmore than they can a high school senior.

Agree

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3) As a general rule, better scouting leads to more predictable draft picks.

Agree

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4) As a general rule, players who play at least 2 years in college are better prepared to play their first year in the NBA than they would have been their first year straight out of high school. [Note that for point 4, these players are being compared against the younger version of themselves so it is a comparison of Kobe after two years in college versus Kobe in high school rather than Kobe versus some other player.]

Disagree strongly.

Carmello Anthony didn't need 2 years of college. He probably didn't need the one year of college he played.

LaMarcus Aldridge didn't need 2 years of college.

Kevin Durant didn't need 2 years of college.

I would go out on a limb and say that Rose and Beasley will not need two years of college.

Here's my point.

This 2 year deal only helps the league. It hurts the player in every aspect.

You're a lawyer right. If right out of Law School, instead of going into a practice, you were made to spend 2 years of watching "the People's Court" on TV and being quizzed on the cases.... How would you feel?

Sure, you're doing Lawyer stuff...by watching the People's court but does it really prepare you any more than you already are? That's how college basketball and the NBA are... They are that far apart. It's like watching people's court vs. practicing law. OF course you may learn a thing or two... but you're just delaying the period of induction that you will have to go through anyway. Moreover, you open yourself up to the possibility of being injured.

If Greg Oden would have stayed one more year and injured himself again... What do you think would have happened to his draft stock?

I would rather see the young players get what they need from the game than to waste time, being used by college basketball and not get what they need to play the game.