What distinguishes Woodson from other coaches

[AHF]

This thread is not intended for those who want Woodson gone.

It is intended for the Woodson supporters to articulate what aspects of Woodson make him standout as the best candidate among the list of guys available this offseason, including:

Mike D'Antoni

Avery Johnson

Mike Fratello

Rick Carlisle

Jeff Van Gundy

Marc Jackson

Anyone else you want to discuss

For me, I would start a review of D'Antoni talking about his innovative offensive scheme, etc. What sets Coach Woodson apart as the best available option for this team for 2008-09 and beyond? What is your description of his standout characterstics?

Thanks.

[Joker]

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This thread is not intended for those who want Woodson gone.

It is intended for the Woodson supporters to articulate what aspects of Woodson make him standout as the best candidate among the list of guys available this offseason, including:

Mike D'Antoni

Avery Johnson

Mike Fratello

Rick Carlisle

Jeff Van Gundy

Marc Jackson

Anyone else you want to discuss

For me, I would start a review of D'Antoni talking about his innovative offensive scheme, etc. What sets Coach Woodson apart as the best available option for this team for 2008-09 and beyond? What is your description of his standout characterstics?

Thanks.

Marc Jackson unproven....

What Woody is, is a smart coach who knows and teaches defense well to those who will listen. He develops players well (not this season) and works hard as a coach. Overall he is just average, I don't see him becoming a good or great coach. He can be a elite assistant like our assistant Herb Brown.

Fratello is a vet coach, he been around the block. He knows everything and has all the experience. His fire is one of his problems because of his age. He is a great coach, not elite like Riley or Phil Jackson. He could be elite with the right talent.

Avery is firery... He works hard... Connects well with players and instills defense in anyone willing to learn. Below average X's and O's guy and Del Harris is the reason he did what he did in Dallas. He is a average coach at best. The talent and Dell Harris made him look better then what he is. He can become a above average to good coach, but needs more seasoning and better decision making abilites for a coach.

Mike D. I'm getting tired so I will make this quick. Great philosophy and everyone knows that.... Knows his personnel really well and how to get the most out of it... Really smart and knows it... Teaches a philosophy which fits better in the East in the West. One of the best coaches in the NBA. He is a great coach.

Rick Carlisle is a great coach who can be elite, to me the best coach in the NBA outside of Phil Jackson and Larry Brown. He will get the most out of his players unless his players give up on him. He is on the boarder of elite.

JVG is a good coach... believes too much in his system.... connects with some well and others not so much.... Really will die for his players and they respect him for it... Never been a coach you heard players say they didn't respect... He believes in his system too much just to repeat again. Needs to learn to better he coaches system in order to become great.

[KB21]

I think Mike Woodson is a coach that has a good understanding of what it takes to win in the NBA. He's a guy that would probably work better with a veteran team that understands what it takes as well. There seems to be a disconnection between him and the players on this team at times. I think a lot of that is due to the youth of this team though. Mike stresses defense and rebounding.

Mike D'Antoni has a great approach to coaching offensive basketball, but overall, his system will not succeed at winning championships because he completely ignores defense. I think he would be the right coach for some teams, but I don't think he is the right guy for the Hawks. Yeah, he would bring an up tempo offensive style, but it will be at the expense of defense. This year shows that he doesn't know how to adjust to a slower paced style, because Phoenix was lost after the Shaq trade.

Avery Johnson is a coach that I believe would be talked about the same way Atlanta fans talk about Mike Woodson if he had gone to a team like the Hawks were 4 years ago. Much like Mike, Avery stresses defense. Avery's strong point is that he was a point guard and has that view of things. His weak point is that he tries to coach too much on every possession. I think he was helped a lot by having Del Harris at his side previously, and he was somewhat exposed when Del retired.

Mike Fratello is the best coach on the list, hands down. If we can get him, we should do it.

Mark Jackson has no experience in coaching whatsoever.

Rick Carlisle is a great candidate that stresses defense and understands how to teach defense, but is he going to bring d*ck Harter to coach the offense with him?

Jeff Van Gundy is a lot like Carlisle in that he is very strong with defense but offensively, he is extremely weak.

[Joker]

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I think Mike Woodson is a coach that has a good understanding of what it takes to win in the NBA. He's a guy that would probably work better with a veteran team that understands what it takes as well. There seems to be a disconnection between him and the players on this team at times. I think a lot of that is due to the youth of this team though. Mike stresses defense and rebounding.

Mike D'Antoni has a great approach to coaching offensive basketball, but overall, his system will not succeed at winning championships because he completely ignores defense. I think he would be the right coach for some teams, but I don't think he is the right guy for the Hawks. Yeah, he would bring an up tempo offensive style, but it will be at the expense of defense. This year shows that he doesn't know how to adjust to a slower paced style, because Phoenix was lost after the Shaq trade.

Avery Johnson is a coach that I believe would be talked about the same way Atlanta fans talk about Mike Woodson if he had gone to a team like the Hawks were 4 years ago. Much like Mike, Avery stresses defense. Avery's strong point is that he was a point guard and has that view of things. His weak point is that he tries to coach too much on every possession. I think he was helped a lot by having Del Harris at his side previously, and he was somewhat exposed when Del retired.

Mike Fratello is the best coach on the list, hands down. If we can get him, we should do it.

Mark Jackson has no experience in coaching whatsoever.

Rick Carlisle is a great candidate that stresses defense and understands how to teach defense, but is he going to bring

d*ck

Harter to coach the offense with him?

Jeff Van Gundy is a lot like Carlisle in that he is very strong with defense but offensively, he is extremely weak.

Mike D' teaches defense, so I disagree... Phoenix played solid defense when needed too, not like the Nuggets who never played defense. Steve Nash is just a terrible defender. His lack of quickness on D hurt them all the time. Even AJ, could drive on Nash. His lack of D hurt that team and stayed getting other players in foul trouble. Amare wasn't much better, he like Josh Smith but has a position. The players hurt D'Antoni defensive credibity more then D'Antoni.

[KB21]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-d...=yhoo&type=lgns

I think this highlights some of the characteristics of the coaches mentioned in this article that are mentioned in your thread. Some of the characteristics are some I didn't mention, such as Rick Carlisle's poor communication skills that got him ousted in Detroit and ultimately in Indiana as well. Also, Avery Johnson seems to be a little too cocky for his own good.

The issue with Mike D'Antoni is what I stated in my thoughts though. Mike doesn't teach defense, and he doesn't run a tight ship. His style will not win championships in the NBA, and I really feel he struggled to adjust his style to a more conventional style after the trade for Shaq.

[DrReality]

Woody is a great assistant coach, that does what is needed, plays a role. But he is not a head coach.

[Joker]

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http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-d...=yhoo&type=lgns

I think this highlights some of the characteristics of the coaches mentioned in this article that are mentioned in your thread. Some of the characteristics are some I didn't mention, such as Rick Carlisle's poor communication skills that got him ousted in Detroit and ultimately in Indiana as well. Also, Avery Johnson seems to be a little too cocky for his own good.

The issue with Mike D'Antoni is what I stated in my thoughts though. Mike doesn't teach defense, and he doesn't run a tight ship. His style will not win championships in the NBA, and I really feel he struggled to adjust his style to a more conventional style after the trade for Shaq.

Carlisle had poor communcation skills with UPPER MANAGEMENT, not his players. He had problems with J.O. and that's the only player I heard of say anything negitive about R.C.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Rick Carlilse is reported going to Dallas. He'd be my first choice too if I were Cuban...his team always seems to be overachieved (mark of a good coach).

[Admin]

Do you realize that Mike Woodson won MORE playoff games in that Boston series than Fratello has won since he was the coach of the Hawks in 1988? In the last 20 years he has won TWO PLAYOFF GAMES with a record of 2 wins and 20 losses. Sure he knows the game but he isn't far above a .500 career winning percentage and has only won the division once in his career.

[Cwell]

maybe THAT's why a guy supposedly so great hasn't had a job in forever.

[Admin]

He has only been out of the game for a year. He took Memphis to the playoffs 2 years in a row (although I think he did it on Hubie Brown's coaching) and then in the beginning of the 06 season the Grizzlies were awful and that was it for Fratello. Even with all the talent he had in Cleveland they were never more than a decent team. They won 47 games in his best year.

[KB21]

His Cleveland teams never had great talent and largely overachieved while he was the head coach. Notice the steady decline that Cleveland had after they replaced Mike Fratello with Randy Whitman, John Lucas, and Paul Silas before Mike Brown came in and road on LeBron's coattails.

[Admin]

That's because most of their good players retired. They had a lot of talent in Cleveland while he was there. They didn't have a superstar but they had good, intelligent players.

You cannot make excuses for his 2-20 playoff record since 1988 though.

[Seano]

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You cannot make excuses for his 2-20 playoff record since 1988 though.

Wow! I had no idea...

2-20, eh? Uhmmmm, no thanks. To me, that should eliminate him from consideration completely.

[Joker]

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That's because most of their good players retired. They had a lot of talent in Cleveland while he was there. They didn't have a superstar but they had good, intelligent players.

You cannot make excuses for his 2-20 playoff record since 1988 though.

Tyrone Hill was a good player for Cle. I agree, he had smart players. I felt he was a great coach going by what he did in Atlanta. I didn't think about him in Cle. I excuse him for what happened in Memphis, becuase it was Hubie team.

[KB21]

He didn't have the horses to win in the playoffs with either Cleveland or Memphis. In both places, he didn't have the go to scorer that he had with Dominique Wilkins in Atlanta. He didn't have that one guy he could go to that could create his own offense. He took over a Cleveland team that had an aging Mark Price, an aging Larry Nance, and an always injured and aging Brad Daugherty. I think it was around 1996 when they blew that up, and Mike had a team that had the likes of Brevin Knight, Derrick Anderson, Cedric Henderson, and Zydrunas Ilgauskaus. It was a team that was good enough to get to the playoffs, but they weren't good enough to win in the playoffs. In Memphis, he had the no defense playing Pau Gasol and no one else that could generate offense or defend with the exception of Shane Battier on the latter. That team overachieved big time under Mike Fratello, and when they dealt his only quality defender and the glue of that team, the rest went to pot. Mike stayed on them to play defense, but they tuned him out.

His 2-20 playoff record means nothing to me because of the teams he had. It's an accomplishment that those teams were even in the playoffs. The fact that Mike Fratello is an excellent motivator, excellent tactician, and excellent teacher of defense is what I'm high on, and I also like the fact that he has transitioned and won with both the up tempo, pressure oriented style that he used in Atlanta and the milk the clock, grind it out style that he used in Cleveland. In Mike's 6 seasons with Cleveland, the Cavs won 47, 43, 47, 42, 47, and 22 games in the lock out season. In the 5 seasons after they fired him, the Cavs won 32, 30, 29, 17, and 35 games, and the 35 was in LeBron's first year under Paul Silas.

[Admin]

His big 3 in Memphis (did you forget about Mike Miller?) are equal to our big 3 in Atlanta so why would we expect him to be able to win here?

I understand that you like Fratello and I understand the nostalgia for him but if Mike Woodson can win 3 games in one series against the best team in the league there is no way to spin being 2-20 over a 20 year period.

That doesn't even bring up that he probably cost us the title in 86 since there is no way we should have blown that series against the Celtics. He's just not the type of coach that will win the coaching match up against the other coach on a regular basis.

[Murat]

Quote:

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This thread is not intended for those who want Woodson gone.

It is intended for the Woodson supporters to articulate what aspects of Woodson make him standout as the best candidate among the list of guys available this offseason, including:

Mike D'Antoni

Avery Johnson

Mike Fratello

Rick Carlisle

Jeff Van Gundy

Marc Jackson

Anyone else you want to discuss

Ok AHF I would want them in this order:

1. Avery - he is energetic, defense first, likes physical players.

2. Freatello - Great teacher, experienced, likes physical ball.

I would say no to:

Mike D'Antoni - I think he is a good coach, but our team doesn't have what he needs.

Marc Jackson - No more rookie coaches please

Carlisle - reminds me of Woody.

Jeff van Gundy - He is jewish.

[KB21]

He absolutely is a coach that can go head to head with any other coach and out coach them. And Atlanta's big three is much better than Memphis's big three.

Joe Johnson is a much better player than Pau Gasol. Gasol doesn't defend and doesn't create shots for himself. He's a second fiddle player that is a poor defender, and Joe is a lead dog who is an above average defender.

Josh Smith is better than Shane Battier. I love what Battier brings to the game, but you won't see him put up the 28 point, 10 rebound, 5 block shot games that Josh will put up.

Al Horford is much better all around than Mike Miller or whoever else you want to put in there.

The fact is though. Mike Fratello's teams do not underachieve. He has always gotten the most out of the talent he has. I can't say that for Mike Woodson. I think this team underachieved by 8-10 games this year.

[Admin]

Man I could not disagree with you more. I know how you get when you really like a player/coach so I'm not going to waste my typing knowing that nothing will change your mind until you are proven wrong ... ahhemm Druckenmiller

The bottom line is that if a team is good enough to make the playoffs they are damn sure good enough win more than 2 out of 22 playoff games.