My Take On The Big Dog Trade - Show Me

[Traceman]

JT and Reef will both likely get more shot attempts out of necessity. We'll just have to see how they fair when faced with double (and triple) teams due to the absence of a 20+ ppg scorer.

The funny thing is that I don't have a problem with the IDEA that Dog was a bad fit here. I can understand why some of you have come to that conclusion. Personally, I think that he would have fit just fine if we had a 2nd balhandler at SG but I guess we'll never know.

That being said, I fail to see how this trade has benefitted the team in any form or fashion ON THE COURT. I hear all the addition by subtraction BS being spewed forth but until I see us win more games next year than we won last year, I won't believe it.

Until I see us turn this so called "flexibility" that we gained in the trade into something tangible, I don't like it. Even if we had traded Dog for a young, up and coming player and an expiring contract, it would have made a lot more sense to me. Even Glen Rice and Nachbar was SOMETHING. As much as I didn't want him here, I would have rather have taken Spree than Brandon's contract because at least we would have been trying to win. But we got NOTHING (A top 15 protected future 1st? Please!). Basically, we GAVE away Kukoc and TJ Ford for a late 1st.

I guess we'll just have to see what the finished product looks like that we trot out there to open the season. Right now, I'm not optimistic at all. I hope we bring DJ back. At least that would be something positive to root for.

[Traceman]

Dog was here for one season and the team won more games than it has at any time since JT has been here. Dog was here for one season and Reef won more games than he has won at any time in his ENTIRE CAREER! Those things are both true, yet our poor record, the best record that either JT or Reef have EVER been associated with, was primarily the fault of one man. Yeah right.

Both Reef and JT have proven that they can put up big stats on lousy teams. Dog has proven that he can put up big stats on winning teams. If Reef is anywhere close to being as good as Ray Allen and if JT is anywhere close to being as good as Sam Cassell, why is it Dog's fault ALONE that the team couldn't win last year?

As for the JT to Kidd comparison, sure JT puts up comparable stats but tell me, when was the last time that JT ran a team like Kidd? When was the last time JT put the team on his back and carried them to victory? When was the last time JT locked up his man on D? When is the last time that JT said he was the leader of the team? As I said, big stats on a lousy team. And I like JT! No comparison between those two though.

As for Diaw, he MAY give us Ira's 8 ppg. I don't think he'll shoot much better from 3 pt land and I don't think he'll defend as well as Ira did right away.

As for our record, we'll see. Unless we make a trade though, I don't think this team will be better than last year's version. I don't see any FA's that we can bring in that will make us better than we were last year. Unless we see an incredible recovery from DJ or unless the light finally comes on for Glover, I think we are in for a LONG season.

[KB21]

The Hawks won 35 games last year, and it can be easily inferred that they would have never gotten to 30 wins had Big Dog stayed healthy.

The Hawks won roughly the same amount of games as they did last year, with over 300 player games missed due to injury, and they won roughly the same amount of games as they did with JR Rider on the team.

The only impact Glenn Robinson had was a negative impact.

This team only won 26 games with him in the line up. They got to 35 wins because he didn't play at the end of the season.

[Iman]

I'm sorta with you Traceman. I thought a ballhandling guard(Diaw) and a good coach(Fratello) could turn our "4 potential all-star" team into something. I think it looks good on paper just as it did going into last year. Maybe they just needed to play together longer.

But after watching how poorly we played at times last year I just dont think it was worth the risk. I think we have a better chance of being good without Dog and we save a few $million. Now we have some financial flexibility.

I think you pretty much had it last year yourself. You said Dog and Reef just dont fit together because neither play solid defense and neither can ballhandle. Was that gonna change this year?

I say we stick DJ and Diaw out there with Theo for some long arm defense ran by Fratello. JT and Reef will get us 20+ per game. Maybe we'll even let Reef play a little SF again this year and get Hendu and Nazr some more time. We'll be fine. Maybe we'll even make the playoffs if some Dickau and our rookies can give us something.

[Diesel]

Dog may have been weak on defense...

But offensively, Dog scored 20+ and Dog took the pressure off of Reef in the low post. Over last season in those famous last ten games of the season, SAR's FG% went down. Teams will key on Shareef.

[Guest]

I don't remembe the Hawks being in any pressure

situations....So I don't know where you got that from.

[Diesel]

Well,

Before we got Dog, Reef would have to playing being doubled and tripled all season long (like he will be this year). Why do you think he was the one who complained and came to Dog's defense? Reef understood that with Dog on the court, he faced less defenders. It's simple basketball. If you have 2 scoring threats ala Boston, teams cannot focus on one. I call it pressure and you might have playoffs in mind but during the course of every game, an offensive threat like Shareef will feel pressure from defenses who spent the last 2 days working on a game plan to stop him.

[Gray Mule]

With a defensive, ball handling rookie set to replace him,

Hawks will miss the scoring of Ira Neuble from the second

half of the season more than Big Dog.

While not known for his scoring poweress, Ira did improve

over the two seasons that he played here. He was a

much more complete player when he left, compared to

when he arrived. He was big and strong around the

basket, picking up several baskets on putbacks of rebounds.

This will be harder to replace than what Big Dog brought

to the Hawks. Big Dog did take the pressure off of SAR

when he was on the floor. He could score, hitting shots

in bunches when he was hot. That will certainly be missed.

Ira was left open when they would double team. He

hit several shots because of that and teams started to

pay attention to him more and more. He played with the

greatest intensity of any Hawk, guarding the best player

for the opposition most of the time.

Don't get too far down on this team until we find out who

will ultimately be on the floor this season. We know that

there are empty slots to be filled and we were told that

more trades were likely.

Are we rebuilding? Well, yes and no. We are changing.

Will we still have the core of players that we had before?

No, because Ira and Big Dog won't be there. Who will

we sign? Who will we trade? These questions must be

addressed before we can answer.

Rebuilding: Starting over.

Retooling: Adding to the core already in place.

Also, who will be the head coach and will he be allowed

to have a full compliment of coaches? What about the

scouting department, the weakest link in the entire

Hawks orginization and perhaps the smallest in the N.B.A.

So many questions yet to be answered. Don't give up

on the season just yet. Hawks are not even ready for

pre-season. We've been down for so long that up seems

a long way off. Our patience wears thin as we struggle

to find the answers.

[Traceman]

You can infer that the team was better without Dog if you like. That still doesn't change the FACT that without Dog, neither JT nor Reef have ever won more than 33 games in a season.

There were a number of reasons that we finished with a good record last season. See the previous season. The easier schedule down the stretch WAS a factor, just as it was the previous season. Theo was MUCH better down the stretch. He was horrible to start the year. Stotts' coaching was starting to have an effect. We played more games at home. Yada, yada, yada. The bottom line is that I can come up with any number of reasons why we improved down the stretch just as you can come up with any number of reasons why Dog was the reason we sucked last year. Like I said, we'll see.

[Guest]

and with Dog we won 35? come on, what's the difference...

[Diesel]

The difference is that you don't trade a 21/7 player for nothing and expect to be better because of it. In the History of Basketball can you find a case where that Philosophy worked?

In a way, History has repeated itself. Danny Manning has bolted for Phoenix and we have nothing to show for trading Nique to LAC.

If we go into the season like this, we can expect to win maybe 24 games this season. If I was Reef, I'd be pissed too. Big Dog wasn't the problem and he wasn't the only factor in our losing Season. I would say that the main problem was the guy we are about to give a 9.19 per season deal to.

[Traceman]

all of the previous season with even worse results. It would have been different if the team had been a playoff team BEFORE Dog arrived but they weren't.

The team never jelled but that didn't mean that it couldn't have jelled if given another opportunity. We attempted to address 2 of our biggest problems by drafting Diaw - lack of a 2nd ballhandler in the starting lineup and lack of a solid perimter defender. Now, we'll never know if Diaw could have filled those voids successfully.

We have NOTHING tangible to show for trading Dog. "Capspace" and "flexibility" are just buzz words that management is using to try and pull the wool over the eyes of the fans for the next 2 years. If we win between now and then, it is because someone has done something pretty special or totally unexpected such as DJ or Glover becoming an overnight sensation. I won't believe that we will improve due to "capspace" or "flexibility" until I see it happen. SHOW ME the quality FAs that we can bring in as a result of Dog being gone. SHOW ME how we are going to improve due to the absence of Dog. Until I see it, I won't believe it.