ESPN "Hopeless Hawks now NBA's biggest lost cause"

[Boondocks]

http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/may_peter/1587754.html

In reply to:

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The Hawks, as of now, provide none of that. Zero. You could make a pretty convincing case that Atlanta is now, officially, the Team Without Hope in the NBA. There is no other team, not even the still-in-the-womb Bobcats, which offers less hope for the few fans who still care. The Nuggets are awful, but they have Carmelo Anthony and a lot of money. The Clippers have finally arrived into the 21st Century. The Warriors at least have some tradeable assets. As we sit at the end of July 2003, there quite possibly is no worse situation in the NBA than the one in Atlanta. And we are led to believe that there is actually someone out there who wants to buy this thing?

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As if the season has already started, sheesh, to the best of my knowledge it's still the offseason.

[full_court_press]

No kidding!

We are still a good 3 months away from the season. At least wait and see what we do in the offseason!

We still have more talent than the Jazz and the Heat. Why aren't they being written off?

[Traceman]

and thus they have hope. I think that is where the article is coming from. We have no caproom and little ability to improve.

Theoretically, either of those teams could make an offer for JT that we wouldn't likely match. As Jaywalker posted, what if either team offers JT a 6 yr/$55 million deal but flips it so that he gets most of his money up front? They could offer him a contract where he would receive in excess of $11 million next year. If the Hawks match such an offer, they will be right back in luxury tax land and therefore, adding a FA with the MCE would be out. We would likely be filliing out our roster with minimum players if we had to match such a deal.

I love the Hawks but the situation IS pretty bleak right now. We very well could be in the worst situation of any team in the league and I don't see a lot of realistic ways we can significantly improve over what we did last year. As we sit here today, I'll be shocked if we win the 35 games that we won last year. SHOCKED!

I question whether or not we have more talent that the Heat due to the fact that they DESTROYED us in 3 out 4 games last year

[Vol4ever]

I'd say it will be more like 25 games

[Diesel]

Like I said when we traded Dog...

We need to trade SAR/Theo too.

It's not fair to deprive them the chance to compete for a title because we are not trying to compete. I think McDavid will gut the team. I think that the trade between Atl/PTL/Dal has some merit but it doesn't make sense to take on Lafrentz' contract being that he's not good.

Maybe Theo/CC goes to PTL for Sabonis/Wells.

[KB21]

....in 2001-2002.

Getting rid of Big Dog improves the team by simply subtracting him. The defense immediately gets better and the offense becomes more flowing.

Boris Diaw can give the Hawks what Ira Newble gave them, only Diaw is a much better ball handler and has much better court vision.

The only thing this team would lack from that team is DerMarr Johnson, and quite frankly, he's still an option at this point. It's not known if he will ever be an effective player though.

Just bringing back Dion Glover would make this team just as good as the team that ended the season last year with a 6-2 record in April.

When this team hires George Karl, and from what I was told today, that's almost a lock, this team will have a shot at the playoffs this year in the Eastern Conference.

Look at the Eastern Conference. There aren't very many teams that are better than the Hawks if they can put some good role players around Shareef and JT.

[Lascar78]

I don't want Karl. But even with him I don't see why we shouldn't make the playoffs as long as we sign a decent swingman or two, and maybe another big man to ride the bench.

If we get Glover, DJ (if he's ready to play a full season) or Stephen Jackson, I think we'll be ok, maybe make the 8 spot. Of course things look horrible right now because we haven't re-signed JT, haven't signed any FA's, dont yet have a new owner or coach. But I still have faith that all that will happen and we'll be fine. The real key is to get a good coach. I'd prefer fratello or Carlisle, but Karl is already a HUGE improvement over Stotts or Kruger. Of course we should have kept Mussleman but its too late for that.

[Diesel]

We will not be better by subtracting Grob.

We have replaced him with NO ONE. That's a huge problem. 20 ppg gone down the drain. 7 rpg gone. We have nothing to show for it.

The load falls on reef along with 3 extra defenders.

You say nonsense all day KB. Well, this year, if we remain in the state we are, you will be made fun of all season. I'll be sure to bring you a BIg Dog Box score too.

I mean, the level of your hypocrisy is so great that you don't even realize it. You defend JT by saying we had No coaching, No System, and we needed More ball handling... BUTTTTTTT you don't see how those same things effected Big Dog's play?

You don't know why SAR and Now JT are shocked that Big Dog was traded for Nothing? They realized that the whole system was flawed and now they are not really playing for anything.... Just riding out the next 2 years until contracts are up. That's sad.

[Lascar78]

wrong. we replaced Dog with Diaw. We replaced a scorer with a passer/ball handler/defensive presence because that's what the club needs. You can't underestimate how much a smooth offense will do for all players and all stats. That's more important than a decent shooter who loses the ball if he doesn't shoot it, and who gets smoked on Defense. As of right now we lost our SG and have not replaced him with anything. But I have confidence that this will be taken care of.

You guys on this board are obsessed with stats. But if you forget about all that and think about what happenned everytime Dog got the ball or was on the ball on defense it was really bad overall. He killed what little rhythm we had. And that's not something you can disprove to me with any rhetoric or stats.

[Diesel]

We replaced a 21/7 vet for a Rookie who was Mediocre in Europe.

Let me explain that.

This wasn't Diaw's first time in the draft. He withdraw twice because it was said that he was not good enough for the NBA. Well, not much changed this past year. He's a player in Euorpe who was flawed. Now had it been the NBA, it's alright.. But in Europe, he didn't face this level of competition. He's never played anybody as good as Tmac or Kobe or Iverson.

And this is supposed to be Grob's replacement. I betcha he won't beat out CC for the starting Spot. Like I said, stop smoking the crack.

[KB21]

Diesel has his head so far up Big Dog's ass that he can digest Big Dog's food for him.

Big Dog brought nothing to this team. This is what he can't figure our, or just simply refuses to admit.

He constantly ignores the fact that the team was much better without him, using the schedule as the excuse which I've done proven is not the case.

[KB21]

Well, Karl has already stated that he wants to coach in the NBA next season, plus he said that his next job isn't going to be about money. He's out to prove that he can still coach in this league, and considering that he wants to coach in the NBA and the Hawks are the only job that is open, he's showing interest in this job.

I've been told that Karl's people have contacted McDavid's people, and once the sale is OFFICIALLY finalized, Karl will be hired as the Vice President/Head Coach and may have an ownership stake in the team.

He fits the high profile coach that McDavid wants to hire as well.

[swolehawk2]

How can make JT's stats seem ordinary when only 5 cats in the league have his numbers....then throw out Dog's stats like he is Larry Bird or something...How can you just over look all Dog's flaws and just look at his stats...but pick out every little flaw in JT's game. Overall, JT contributed much more to the team than Dog.

Does JT have pictures of you and a farm animal or something?

[TheDude]

Hawks + Glenn Robinson = No Playoffs

Hawks - Glenn Robinson = ?

that simple..

but this article is ridiculous.. I hope the writer is just a disgruntled Hawks fan and has given up. Otherwise he's an idiot. Without BigDog the year before last we made a decent run and got better as the season goes. Now we have basically the same team but with Theo healthy and a little cap room. We're just fine.

To me, it depends on the health of DJ.

[emeans]

KB you are totally dilussional. This team will be terrible next year. Trading Glenn makes this team better????? What??... Who on this team can spot up and shoot the ball other than JT....No one.

ESPN is right...this team is in total shambles and some of you guys on here are either blind or just don't want to admit the truth. This team stinks with Shareef and JT.

We need to admit that we are totally rebuilding this team. I kind of agree with Diesel, we probably need to let Shareef, Theo and JT go to another team so that they can compete. The Hawks are in SHAMBLES!!!! We don't even have an owner.

[Traceman]

for 3 straight years before he got here.

[Traceman]

I don't see how a guy who average 5 ppg, 5 rbg and 4 apg in the summer league is going to replace 21/7. Of course all of Dog's rebounds were "easy rebounds" that he got because the ball just happened to fall in his lap and he only scored 21 ppg because he shot so much. If Diaw shoots Dog's 43% from the field this year and 34% from 3 point land while taking HALF as many shots, I'll be THRILLED with him.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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Without BigDog the year before last we made a decent run and got better as the season goes.

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before last season there was a guy who can run the offense named Toni Kukoc... and even with him, the only reason we looked better was because of the ease of schedule down the stretch.

BUT.... We got nothing for Big Dog.

It doesn't or shouldn't take a genius to know that we will be bad.

Your equation says it all.

Hawks + Grob = no Playoffs.

Hawks - Grob = No Playoffs.

If you think losing 20 points 7 rebound ALtogether will make us Better, I have some oceanside property for you to look at on fair St.

[Iman]

I'm with DocHawk and some of the others. This time a year ago before the Dog trade we were thinking we should look solid for the playoffs once we added Theo to our roster. Our biggest risk was the fact that many of our players were repeatedly injured, Theo, Kukoc, Dion, even CC and Hendu. We dropped Kukoc and his salary and bad health for Dog, a known reliable player with obvious defensive weaknesses and a large salary. Still when you broke it down and looked at the stats it looked liked we might be among the top in the EAst, at least it looked that way to me. We even started the 2003 season fairly well then we saw that it just didnt work, mainly JT was our only ballhandler and our forwards really gave up alot defensively.

It would have been interesting to see if a Coach and more time together in combo with a ballhandler or two might have solved the problem. But a safer solution, especially when you consider salaries was just to dump the Dog. Now we're back to needing to figure out who will be our third offensive threat. The Dog gamble cost us an 8th pick last year for who knows what kinda pick in 2005 or so but it did get us out of our injury risk problems and Kukoc's salary.

So to me the question is who will be our Coach and who will be our third scorer. If we get lucky with those positions I dont see why we cant be a midlevel Eastern playoff team.

[thecampster]

at the end of the article it said, "That's not much. It'll be even less if Dallas can pry Ratliff away. The Hawks are clearly looking ahead -- two years from now, they might actually have some cap room. But you've still got to play the 2003-04 and 2004-05 seasons."

So Dallas wants Ratliff....my question is, "How Bad???"

Seeing as Dallas has Van Exel, would they give up Nash, Bradley and a future conditional pick (based on a finals appearance)?

Atlanta trades: C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 31.1 minutes)

Atlanta receives: PG Steve Nash (17.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 7.3 apg in 33.1 minutes)

C Shawn Bradley (6.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 21.4 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +15.7 ppg, +1.3 rpg, and +7.1 apg.

Dallas trades: PG Steve Nash (17.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 7.3 apg in 33.1 minutes)

C Shawn Bradley (6.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 21.4 minutes)

Dallas receives: C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 81 games)

Change in team outlook: -15.7 ppg, -1.3 rpg, and -7.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Atlanta and Dallas being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Dallas had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

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You have been assigned Trade ID number 1171920

or

Atlanta trades: C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 31.1 minutes)

PG Dan Dickau (3.7 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 1.7 apg in 10.3 minutes)

Atlanta receives: SF Antoine Rigaudeau (1.6 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.6 apg in 8.3 minutes)

C Shawn Bradley (6.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 21.4 minutes)

PG Steve Nash (17.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 7.3 apg in 33.1 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +13.6 ppg, +1.1 rpg, and +6.0 apg.

Dallas trades: SF Antoine Rigaudeau (1.6 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.6 apg in 8.3 minutes)

C Shawn Bradley (6.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 21.4 minutes)

PG Steve Nash (17.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 7.3 apg in 33.1 minutes)

Dallas receives: C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 81 games)

PG Dan Dickau (3.7 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 1.7 apg in 50 games)

Change in team outlook: -13.6 ppg, -1.1 rpg, and -6.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Atlanta and Dallas being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Dallas had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

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You have been assigned Trade ID number 1171923