Hawks main problem for the future.....

[thatsmydawg]

The way I see it is that any young free agent like a S. Jackson is going to be more focused on by other team defenses because we don't have a Duncan. This guy was able to stay almost invisible during the playoffs because of the other All-Stars around him. He had open shot after open shot because teams were insistant on not letting Duncan beat them. The Hawks would expect more of S. Jackson than I personally think he could contribute. The guy was cut by the Nets. Players tend to get hot during the playoffs after having so so regular seasons. I see S. Jackson as one of these type players (Horry. example). Unfortunately, I think the best avenue the Hawks can take is one that creates alot off capspace for multiple seasons so that when we get a player that could be "The One" we will have money to lure quality free agents who want to play with the newest phenom for the good of the team as All-Star quality role players(Malone, Payton. example). I want to resign JT, but he nor SAR will ever CARRY this team to a title so I say if we can trade either or both for draft picks and/or young players then do it. This situation sucks but if we are going to continue to not make the playoffs then I would like to see a roster of young players with potential to be someone than a roster of used to be All-Stars who can't play together good enough to even make the playoffs. Bottom line, I don't mind being the door mat for a few years if we can turn it around like the braves and (hopefully) the falcons have.

[Diesel]

Well, the first thing we have to do is stop lying to ourselves. This team took 4 steps backwards by trading Big Dog for Nothing. Unless Randy Holcomb is really Dominique Wilkins in hiding, we have not improved.

Free agency won't help this year and I'm not quick to say that having cap space will help in 2005. Our team has to look like it's trying to win. I read a little bit abot Odom the other day. Did you know he only wants to play for Miami or Denver. I don't think that it's about money, I think he's looked at Denver and seen that Kiki is building a winner. Miami might be about the city and climate but you can't deny that Butler, Odom, Wade would be an interesting core.

Back to the Hawks, the lies that we have told ourselves is that we are building and making ourselves better and getting ready for the future. The truth is that we are getting ready for a MAJOR rebuild in the near future if we don't make some trades that can take advantage of the talent we have NOW.

So what is very neccessary is for us to define what we want here in terms of a team:

Are we a Running team, defensive team, a halfcourt team, an offensive team, a team built around SAR, a team built around JT, or a Team built around Theo...

After we have defined that, we need to make moves that support that definition. That way at least we are going in the right direction.

An example of that kind of thinking is my latest trade proposal.

Theo/CC for BK/Lo/Battier.

First the rationale.

We are not a defensive team so keeping Theo as our main defender does not help him or us. Theo is a very good backside defender but when there are no other strong defenders, then Theo is isolated in the middle and subject to attack. That's what happened last year, and the blame was placed solely on Big Dog. BUT if you watched, it was evident that JT had a special brand of Olay defense and Reef wasn't a defensive standout either. So I say we trade Theo for that purpose. We get more of an offensive team.

The other part is that we definitely need some help at Sf/SG.

I have always like Battier. NO doubt. I think he's smooth enough on offense to compliment any team. I think getting him would be awesome for us. He fills the Sf spot. He's a player who can score about 14-18 ppg and pull down maybe 5-6 board per contest.

In our change, I say we bring in Lo too. I call Lo Lazy Lo. It's said out of Memphis that Lo is not liked by West. I think West will trade him. Even though Lazy Lo is not a great defender, I think one thing Lo does well is rebound. That is one of the most important things we need if we become an offensive team. I think Lo can easily be a 12-14/10 C. That would be great. Plus, Lo had better chemistry with JT than Theo.

Finally picking up BK. Say what you want, Knight is a good PG. I think having him as a BU will help JT/Dickau and Diaw. Brevin isn't blessed with Size, but he knows alot about defensive positioning, he knows about playmaking. I really see him as a guy who can help groom Dickau. Even if JT is not resigned, the deal is good for that purpose.

So what we have is:

Lo/SAR/Battier/Diaw/JT.

That's an offensive team. We won't get pushed around so easily. And we're not sitting waiting to die..

if we continue along the path we're going, we're waiting to die in 2005.

[KB21]

This team was projected by most experts to be in the top 4 in the Eastern Conference last season after the addition of Glenn Robinson. Remember, everyone was saying that this was a team with an all star front court and a potential all star in Jason Terry. They underachieved, mainly because of Glenn Robinson and his no caring ways.

The Hawks made the deal that they absolutely had to make. They got rid of Glenn Robinson, who did more to hurt the developing chemistry Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Jason Terry were gaining than he did to make this team better.

This team had one main problem last season. Turnovers. Glenn Robinson was the main turnover problem and the weakest defender of the starting five.

This team has some question marks at the 2 and 3 positions, but Jason Terry, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, and Theo Ratliff didn't lose their ability overnight. That's a solid core to build a playoff caliber team around. No, they probably won't lead a team to a championship by themselves, though I think Shareef's game will elevate once the Hawks get a strong coach.

But, in 2 years when the cap room benefits this team, a guy like Ray Allen may be the player that makes this team a championship caliber team.

[Traceman]

First of all, VERY few so called experts picked the Hawks to be a top 4 team last year. In fact, more said they would not even make the playoffs than said they would be top 4. Many were skeptical (apparently rightly so) that the team would be be able to fulfill the playoff guarantee because they thought the team still had several problems that the acquisition of Dog did not address.

Second, you continue to slander Dog with LIES about him not caring. Its amazing to me that all of you guys who look at the situation from afar make statements that he didn't care without knowing anything other than what you see on the court. I KNOW that Dog was VERY well liked by his teammates and that they didn't consider him to be THE problem on the team. I'm sure that Theo wanted him to be a better defender and I'm sure that his poor D frustrated Theo at times but I KNOW that Reef's and JT's poor D also frustrated Theo. In fact, I have SEEN and HEARD Theo and Reef arguing about defensive assignments on the sideline during the game on more than one occasion. I'm not saying that Theo and Dog didn't argue, I just never saw it. I also saw Reef yelling at JT on the court after JT made SEVERAL boneheaded, careless turnovers in a row. It was a VERY heated situation that had the assistant coaches separating them. Again, not saying it didn't happen ,but I never saw Reef (or anyone else) yelling at Dog or even indicating that he was shooting too much or turning the ball over too much. The only coach or player I EVER saw yell at Dog was Stotts. Stotts yanked him, yelled at him and benched him. After the incident happened, Dog didn't do anything other than what Stotts told him to do. He later said that Stotts was the coach and that he was right and Dog was wrong.

I guess what I'm saying is that there is no need to slander Dog and continue to make up this BS or spread unsubstantiated rumors about BS that you know nothing about. Chad Ford and Sean Deveny don't know ANYTHING about the interpersonal relationships of the players on the team and that is the only possible place that you are getting your info the Dog was ANY kind of cancer on this team. Why don't you listen to a source who KNOWS the players and who sees and talks to them on a regular basis throughout the season? That source would be Jaywalker, who as you well know, has a press pass as well as season tickets right behind the Hawks' bench. Jaywlaker has reported, REPEATEDLY, that Dog and his teammates got along ver well. Are you saying that you believe Deveney and Ford more than Jay?

[Guest]

Dog is Glen Rice overweight.THAT IS WHO HE IS.

Same smooth shot off screens, same posting up, same

good FT shooter, same high percentage shooter.

I really know why Dog turned it over...I haven't called

him a cancer...I just think he's a really, really bad defender.

[KB21]

If Dog cared, he would have taken it upon himself to work on his ball handling and his defense.

He didn't/doesn't though. All he wants to do is shoot. That's the only thing he cares about.

If he had half the heart and work ethic of Ira Newble, he would be an All-World player.

It's really too bad none of Shareef rubbed off on him. Shareef is one of the hardest, tireless workers in the NBA. His offseason program to keep himself in game shape is second to none, and a guy like Glenn Robinson can definitely use some of Reef's unselfish ways.

That's why the team is better with just Reef and JT than they were with Reef, JT, and Robinson. Reef and JT are two guys who want to win. They don't care about the stats they put up. Robinson only cares about the stats he puts up.

That's not slander. That's a fact that anyone who has followed his career can see. He was a one man show throughout his high school and college career, and he thinks that he can be a one man show in the pros.

[Guest]

Here's why people are talking/thinking about Stephan Jackson. Because he's young, he came straight from HS, and now, about four years later, is starting to show something. He's still unpolished, but he has that desire, appears to truly want to be the man and excel (sort of like Ricky Davis).

For a borderline team that has fantastic parts, we're grasping at straws. The main reason the Hawks are who they are is the lack of a true superstar. You take Kobe, TMac, probably even Paul Pierce, a healthy Vince Carter, etc...and you have a near championship quality team. Reef's a fine player, he's not "soft," but he lacks that final drive to simply dominate. We're the body of a Ferrari with the engine of a Honda...not a Isuzu, but you get my point.

Risking on someone like Stephan Jackson is the only real shot we have right now. We need an engine...and a driver.

[KB21]

I agree with that, but we are also in a position where instead of just signing someone, we have to look at the way that player is going to fit into the structure of this team.

I Stephen Jackson a guy that is going to come in, play out of control, and turn the ball over a lot, or is he a guy that is going to come in and play a role alongside Jason Terry and Shareef Abdur-Rahim?

For right now, we have to gear the offense so it starts with JT and goes through Shareef. Everyone else needs to fill a role, but those are the two players that will butter the bread offensively. That's the way it should have been last season. Instead of making a deal for Glenn Robinson, the Hawks would have been much better off giving Matt Harpring the MCE. He would have been a much better fit because he wouldn't have demanded the ball, would have given the Hawks the mid-range game they wanted, and would have been a better defender. It would have been much better for chemistry sake. That's a mistake Pete Babcock realizes he made, and unfortunately for him, it cost him his job (along with some other mistakes in the past).

So, basically we are back to where we were when we first traded for Shareef. We have JT, Shareef, and Theo to build around. Plug in two guys that will be role players offensively and will give you hard work on defense, and see what happens. I guarantee you that, as long as everyone stays healthy, the team will shock a lot of people with the right role players.

With all that said, I think Jon Barry is the best fit for this team.

[Guest]

KB...I think you vision JT/Shareef=Pierce/Walker

too much.I don't think it will work.

[KB21]

With a good coach, it could be better.

Paul Pierce is what makes that duo go anyway. Shareef is light years better than Antoine Walker in every aspect of the game.

Shareef and JT can be more like Kemp and Payton.

[Admin]

I wouldnt say that Reef is light years better than Antoine. Walker has gotten away from his game and has fallen in love with the 3pter, but he is still a very good PF. If he were playing for a team that didnt allow him to just sit back and jack up 3's like the Celtics do I think he would be far better.

Look at the stats of their careers

Reef

PPG - 20.7

RPG - 8.3

APG - 2.9

SPG - 1.3

BPG - .92

FG - .465

3FG - .302

FT - .807

Antoine

PPG - 20.8

RPG - 8.7

APG - 4.2

SPG - 1.52

BPG - .5

FG - .412

3FG - .333

FT - .665

Those are [censored] similar numbers for their careers. I truly believe that with Walkers fire if he played in a more controlled system he could put up even better numbers. Of course I also believe that Reef could put up better numbers if he really wanted to or had some motivating him to do so. Bottom line is that I dont think that either of them are better than the other. They are just about equal and both have some knocks against them (Reef cant win, Walker jacks up 3's).....but IMO they are about equal.

[Guest]

And Antoine supposed to be in better shape this

year according to sources.He seems to be working

out with Tim Grover MJ's old trainer.

[Playmaker0017]

KB21,

I am not impressed with either Paul Pierce or Antoine Walker. I am amazed that the team they play for actually wins.

What did the two of them - combined - shoot? 40%? 39%? Some god awful number.

I mean, the team should be named Selfish and Selfisher.

I think they just happen to play with a bunch of unselfish guys who want to contribute. They play well off of each other, and together are decent ball-handlers - but separately I don't think either of them would dominate.

I think either of those players in Atlanta would end up leading Atlanta to the cellar.

Play.

[Vol4ever]

You can talk about the defects of Robinson' s game and they are well chronicled, but I must add that Shareef plays NO defense and is just as turnover prone as Big Dog.

The problem with the Hawks without Big Dog that there is no player to get to the line and create mismatches on defense for the other team. The Hawks will be back to pre-Robinson days of a couple years ago that cannot score, period!

Shareef is a decent player and I like him, but he's not a upper echelon PF. I really miss Dan Roundfield, now he was a power forward!!!

Big Dog was a problem, but his ability to score the basketball will be sorely missed.

Just my .02

[drzachary]

Hm, the Hawks averaged 94.0ppg in 2001-2002, and 94.1ppg in 2002-2003. Not a whole lot of difference in the year immediately preceding Dog's arrival.

We did have Kukoc then, of course.

[Playmaker0017]

Vol4Ever,

Reef is an AVERAGE defender. He has taken many strides in this aspect of his game, and this is an old rap on him. He may not be high calibre, but comparing him to Big Dog is like comparing Glenn to Dion Glover in terms of shooting.

Also, I wouldn't call Reef a TO machine. That, again, is an old statement. His turnovers have gone down significantly. His turnovers are rarely the Big Dog kind... most of his turnovers come from offensive fouls or the old double team [censored] up.

He doesn't fall for the double team like he used to do when he was new in the league.

Sorry, I just think his game has progressed past that.

Play.

[Vol4ever]

Play,

The TO problem I am speaking of was before Dog. Reef would flash out past the foul line and try to take the defender one on one to the basket and would get the ball taken every time. I have also noticed that when he gets the ball in the post he has TO problems as well. He really needs to work on that part of his game, I like him because he is a good guy and doesn't cause problems. But defense is another area he needs to work on.

I was surprised he came out in the paper aboutDog being traded although Dogs offensive game did take pressure off of Reef.

Just my opinion

[Playmaker0017]

Vol4Ever,

Reef doesn't need to work on his ball handling in the post, so much as his agressiveness in the post. He spins TO the coverage. He spins to the middle instead of baseline. This leads him right into traffic and swatting hands. It is an ignorant play that Lionel Hollins and crew used to force him ot do.

I do think he needs to work on his defense, but it isn't the glaring issue it once was. Compared to Big Dog, Reef is Ben freaking Wallace.

I do not believe Dog helped take pressure off of Reef. The defense zoned Reef out of most games. They had a double - or - triple team BEFORE he touched the ball. That is NOT removing pressure.

Play.

[Traceman]

If Reef is such a tireless worker and such a great example for Dog, why is he a below average defender as well? If defense is all about desire and effort, why is Reef still considered to be an average defender AT BEST? Reef DOES work hard in the off season but he needs to FOCUS that work on D. He is no better than Dog on D but he SHOULD be. Dog is not quick enough to guard the most athletic SFs one on one but Reef SHOULD be quick enough to stay with the best PFs. Instead, they school him on a regular basis.

If Dog is not a good player and he doesn't care about winning and only cares about his stats (a RIDICULOUS, SLANDEROUS statement with no basis in fact), why is it that he could win playing alongside Ray Allen and Cassell and he couldn't win playing alongside Reef and JT? Are Allen and Cassell THAT much better than Reef and JT?

The truth is that Dog, as do MOST players in the NBA, wants to win. He might think that him shooting and scoring gives his team the best chance to win, and that may not always be correct, but he WANTS to win. And heart? The guy played hurt for the entire season with multiple injuries and never complained. But according to you, he didn't care about winning and only wanted to pad his stats. Whatever.