Georgia vs Alabama

[AHF]

Next year barring more major injuries the OL should be very good. Don't forget how young they are.

My problem is that the o-line always seems to be a year or two away. (Clearly, that hasn't been the case every year but the years where the line is experienced and talented are the exception). Losing our LT this year was a killer.

[EazyRoc]

UGA got whooped by an SEC team. No big surprise. When everyone was hailing them as the National Champions, I had my doubts and not because I was a Tech fan. People had already counted out the defending champions and an upstart program like Alabama (which I picked as a surprise team in another post). The bottom line is people looked at all the skill players, and started having wet dreams about a championship. However, there was just nothing they could do with that elephant on Alabama's line or a good senior QB.

[DrReality]

They had not played up to a top five team all year and got exposed. Humble pie may do them some good.

Anyone remember that British band? Peter Frampton.

[High5]

My problem is that the o-line always seems to be a year or two away. (Clearly, that hasn't been the case every year but the years where the line is experienced and talented are the exception). Losing our LT this year was a killer.

Well it's not like this is just potential. They have been good, they just need to all be on the field together.

[jhay610]

I agree with a lot of what's been said here. UGA's offensive line has been a weakness more years than it has been a strength. The game is won and lost in the trenches. It doesn't matter if you have Tom Brady back there if you don't have time to throw (see last year's super bowl).

That said, I don't think it was as bad for the offensive line vs Alabama as everyone is making it out to be. They weren't blowing anyone off the line, that's for sure, but Stafford had some time back there more often than not. I thought it was interesting that Bobo and Richt didnt even try to run between the tackles though, where Moreno is most effective. He is so shifty he can take the smallest crease and then just burst through the second level. Once he gets rolling like that he is one of the toughest guys to bring down, when he's heading straight at you, that I have seen in a very long time. His hips are just so quick and he destroys the angles guys take on him. He is much more effective that way than when he's running on the outside because he's really not that much of a pure speed demon and his special abilities don't get a chance to shine as much. I'm sure Bobo and CMR know this. I guess that shows how little confidence the coaches have in the line.

Defensive line has been consistent at not getting pressure all year, no matter who we are playing. I can't believe we didnt try to bring more pressure on John Parker Wilson, who is prone to mistakes when under fire. To just sit back in a cover 2 and let a senior QB pick you apart is unforgivable, in my opinion. This after last year's squad led the SEC in sacks.

Let's also not forget that UGA VII is still finding his way in the SEC, as this was his first serious test against a good SEC West team. He'll only get better as the season wears on.

Comparing Richt to Donnan is just ridiculous. It doesn't even bear a response, really, but here's one anyway. Love it or hate it, UGA has been a contender for the SEC since Richt has been at the helm, and has been a top 10 team 5 out of the last 6 years. Richt himself has been SEC coach of the year twice, to go with 2 SEC championships. Donnan was, well, Donnan. They won a Peach Bowl or an Outback Bowl every now and then.

To say he can't recruit is also asinine. UGA has top 5 classes almost annually now and if you need any confirmation of his coaching ability check out how many Dogs are playing on Sundays right now. They are an NFL factory.

As for the Ga Tech-UGA, ahem "rivalry" (how does the saying go about it not being a rivalry if one team wins all of the time?), even if Ga Tech pulled off the upset this year, you still couldn't consider it a rivalry until Ga Tech proves that they can consistently play at UGA's level for several years running. I root for both programs, but Ga Tech is just not there right now and haven't been for quite a while.

I find most anti-dog fans are at least as absurd and obnoxious as the blind redneck dog fans that actually have no connection to the university, other than geographic proximity. The dogs are just a polarizing bunch, right now, for whatever reason. You find all the Tech people and random Pac-10 and Big 10 fans coming out of the woodwork to post on the AJC blogs when UGA is humbled. To me, that shows that the dogs are doing something right because they are relevant. Under Donnan, no one even cared.

The dogs' weaknesses were exposed in this one, but let's not forget that last year they suffered a similar rout at UT and fell all the way to #23, when everyone wrote them off. We all remember how that turned out. You can stumble like this early and still have a great season. That said, UGA has to get much tougher on both lines and take a more aggressive attitude right there. They started winning last year when they got things rolling on both the offensive and defensive lines - specifically in the Florida and Auburn games. You just have to man up and stop pussyfooting around with screen passes and toss sweeps. If they don't improve LSU will do the same thing to them - they might be the one team that's even better than the Tide up front.

[TroyMcClure]

I agree with a lot of what's been said here. UGA's offensive line has been a weakness more years than it has been a strength. The game is won and lost in the trenches. It doesn't matter if you have Tom Brady back there if you don't have time to throw (see last year's super bowl).

That said, I don't think it was as bad for the offensive line vs Alabama as everyone is making it out to be. They weren't blowing anyone off the line, that's for sure, but Stafford had some time back there more often than not. I thought it was interesting that Bobo and Richt didnt even try to run between the tackles though, where Moreno is most effective. He is so shifty he can take the smallest crease and then just burst through the second level. Once he gets rolling like that he is one of the toughest guys to bring down, when he's heading straight at you, that I have seen in a very long time. His hips are just so quick and he destroys the angles guys take on him. He is much more effective that way than when he's running on the outside because he's really not that much of a pure speed demon and his special abilities don't get a chance to shine as much. I'm sure Bobo and CMR know this. I guess that shows how little confidence the coaches have in the line.

Defensive line has been consistent at not getting pressure all year, no matter who we are playing. I can't believe we didnt try to bring more pressure on John Parker Wilson, who is prone to mistakes when under fire. To just sit back in a cover 2 and let a senior QB pick you apart is unforgivable, in my opinion. This after last year's squad led the SEC in sacks.

Let's also not forget that UGA VII is still finding his way in the SEC, as this was his first serious test against a good SEC West team. He'll only get better as the season wears on.

Comparing Richt to Donnan is just ridiculous. It doesn't even bear a response, really, but here's one anyway. Love it or hate it, UGA has been a contender for the SEC since Richt has been at the helm, and has been a top 10 team 5 out of the last 6 years. Richt himself has been SEC coach of the year twice, to go with 2 SEC championships. Donnan was, well, Donnan. They won a Peach Bowl or an Outback Bowl every now and then.

To say he can't recruit is also asinine. UGA has top 5 classes almost annually now and if you need any confirmation of his coaching ability check out how many Dogs are playing on Sundays right now. They are an NFL factory.

As for the Ga Tech-UGA, ahem "rivalry" (how does the saying go about it not being a rivalry if one team wins all of the time?), even if Ga Tech pulled off the upset this year, you still couldn't consider it a rivalry until Ga Tech proves that they can consistently play at UGA's level for several years running. I root for both programs, but Ga Tech is just not there right now and haven't been for quite a while.

I find most anti-dog fans are at least as absurd and obnoxious as the blind redneck dog fans that actually have no connection to the university, other than geographic proximity. The dogs are just a polarizing bunch, right now, for whatever reason. You find all the Tech people and random Pac-10 and Big 10 fans coming out of the woodwork to post on the AJC blogs when UGA is humbled. To me, that shows that the dogs are doing something right because they are relevant. Under Donnan, no one even cared.

The dogs' weaknesses were exposed in this one, but let's not forget that last year they suffered a similar rout at UT and fell all the way to #23, when everyone wrote them off. We all remember how that turned out. You can stumble like this early and still have a great season. That said, UGA has to get much tougher on both lines and take a more aggressive attitude right there. They started winning last year when they got things rolling on both the offensive and defensive lines - specifically in the Florida and Auburn games. You just have to man up and stop pussyfooting around with screen passes and toss sweeps. If they don't improve LSU will do the same thing to them - they might be the one team that's even better than the Tide up front.

I think you are speaking to me. Let me say that yes, I do feel you have the same old dawgs here. No one wants to admit that Florida and Tennessee are waay down from when Donnan was the coach. That's a big difference. Maybe Richt is responsible for that by better recruiting. That would be the only way he is better than Donnan. Purely as a coach during the week and on saturdays, I'll take national title winning coach Jim Donnan any day.

Again perception is often at odds with reality. I don't really care where Georgia is ranked. I do know they are basically the same team they were years ago. The only thing that's changed is

Spurrier is gone. Georgia still averages 2.5 losses a year under Richt. How is that really different from say the 3.5 that Donnan had?

Check the record on Jim Donnan. He's a very good coach. And unlike Mark Richt, he has beaten Jim Tressel in a National Title game. You guys that think he can't coach must have never played football or didn't pay attention. To show the lack of respect that many of you do is quite simply amazing. It's not like they don't coach at that level. Ask Michigan. Talent is usually the only difference. He got a raw deal at UGA. And it's not like Richt runs a monastery here. But I guess most GA fans are willing to have a team full of undisciplined thugs on and off the field if that means 2.5 losses instead of 3.5. Not a big difference to me.

Edited September 30, 2008 by TroyMcClure

[AtLaS]

I think you are speaking to me. Let me say that yes, I do feel you have the same old dawgs here. No one wants to admit that Florida and Tennessee are waay down from when Donnan was the coach. That's a big difference. Maybe Richt is responsible for that by better recruiting. That would be the only way he is better than Donnan. Purely as a coach during the week and on saturdays, I'll take national title winning coach Jim Donnan any day.

Again perception is often at odds with reality. I don't really care where Georgia is ranked. I do know they are basically the same team they were years ago. The only thing that's changed is

Spurrier is gone. Georgia still averages 2.5 losses a year under Richt. How is that really different from say the 3.5 that Donnan had?

Check the record on Jim Donnan. He's a very good coach. And unlike Mark Richt, he has beaten Jim Tressel in a National Title game. You guys that think he can't coach must have never played football or didn't pay attention. To show the lack of respect that many of you do is quite simply amazing. It's not like they don't coach at that level. Ask Michigan. Talent is usually the only difference. He got a raw deal at UGA. And it's not like Richt runs a monastery here. But I guess most GA fans are willing to have a team full of undisciplined thugs on and off the field if that means 2.5 losses instead of 3.5. Not a big difference to me.

Troy, a one game difference in wins is huge in college football, don't even try to play that off. And, our guys who get in trouble are disciplined, ask Odell Thurmond and numerous others who I don't feel like looking up right now.

And, no mention of wins? Only losses, huh? Richt has the best winning % of ANY coach in the SEC since he's arrived, including an astounding 26-4 road record, 2 SEC titles and 2 BCS bowl wins. When the Dawgs went 13-1 in 2002, we would've went to the MNC in basically ANY other year, we just happened to be unlucky that the top 2 teams didn't lose a game and went undefeated. LSU has had good timing with 1 and 2 loss seasons, we haven't. Auburn had the worst shaft in history by going undefeated and not getting an opportunity. Getting an opportunity to play in the MNC requires a lot of luck unless you go undefeated which is very, very hard.

That's fine that you'd take Donnan over Richt, you are 1 in a million, literally.

It's also funny that you are now criticizing everyone else just because Bama won a few big games, we'll see what happens when they lose a few. I'm not doubting Saban as a coach, but your perception of Richt is WAY off.

[TroyMcClure]

Troy, a one game difference in wins is huge in college football, don't even try to play that off. And, our guys who get in trouble are disciplined, ask Odell Thurmond and numerous others who I don't feel like looking up right now.

And, no mention of wins? Only losses, huh? Richt has the best winning % of ANY coach in the SEC since he's arrived, including an astounding 26-4 road record, 2 SEC titles and 2 BCS bowl wins. When the Dawgs went 13-1 in 2002, we would've went to the MNC in basically ANY other year, we just happened to be unlucky that the top 2 teams didn't lose a game and went undefeated. LSU has had good timing with 1 and 2 loss seasons, we haven't. Auburn had the worst shaft in history by going undefeated and not getting an opportunity. Getting an opportunity to play in the MNC requires a lot of luck unless you go undefeated which is very, very hard.

That's fine that you'd take Donnan over Richt, you are 1 in a million, literally.

It's also funny that you are now criticizing everyone else just because Bama won a few big games, we'll see what happens when they lose a few. I'm not doubting Saban as a coach, but your perception of Richt is WAY off.

How am I one in a million? He won a national title, atlas? Against Jim Tressel.

Going undefeated is very hard. You know what isn't hard? Not getting penalized or arrested repeatedly. Georgia has no discipline and a lot of talent. There is a void of coaching in Athens.

Again, you don't want to talk about how Georgia really isn't any better than before. Florida is just worse. So is Tennessee.

And no... a one game difference, especially when given an extra game in the schedule is not a big difference.

I'm not criticizing brecause Bama won. I'm criticizing because so many seem to have no clue what football coaches do or don't show any respect for what Jim Donnan did. He got no support from above at Georgia. To act like he's not even in the conversation of comparrison to Richt is just naive, to say the least.

And to point out that Odell Thurman was disciplined is just silly. The Bengals have had numerous problems with him.

One more thing... That was not a big game. At least not to Alabama. They have a scary game against Rich Brooks this week and still have to play Tennessee, LSU, and Auburn. Those are big games. Losing a single game is unacceptable to Saban. Richt seems to be just fine doing this every year.

[AHF]

People should not discount Jim Donnan because he was a quality coach but he wasn't at Richt's level. He didn't recruit at Richt's level (which has hurt UF and especially UT) and certainly didn't produce at Richt's level. Donnan deserves respect because he was a coach who would have been a dream for lot of teams to land but calling him a national championship coach as if it makes him better than Richt seems a bit disingenuous. Is David Dean a better coach than Richt because he is a "national championship" coach?

Donnan could clearly coach but the reason people weren't clammoring for him when UGA let him go was that he had not shown that he could elevate a program. UGA marginally improved from the aweful Ray Goff to the much better Jim Donnan but they never really elevated themselves from the 3rd-5th best in the SEC range. UGA has elevated itself both in its conference and nationally since Donnan left. Nobody should be comparing Donnan to Woody or anything, but the mere fact that people can't give Donnan credit doesn't make him any better than Richt when every measurable basis supports Richt as having done the better job.

All that said, Richt needs to stop having his teams fall short to really look any better than John Cooper's career at Ohio State.

[AtLaS]

Going undefeated is very hard. You know what isn't hard? Not getting penalized or arrested repeatedly. Georgia has no discipline and a lot of talent. There is a void of coaching in Athens.

THIS is the first season we've had in the top of the NCAA in penalties. In fact, in Richt's 7 years we've only had ONE season in the top 25 of overall penalties, 2003 and this year so far. You are completely wrong.

I'm not criticizing brecause Bama won. I'm criticizing because so many seem to have no clue what football coaches do or don't show any respect for what Jim Donnan did. He got no support from above at Georgia. To act like he's not even in the conversation of comparrison to Richt is just naive, to say the least.

I'm not disrespecting Donnan, but compared to Richt AT UGA, he is nothing.

I agree that it wasn't a big game in terms of both teams would still control their own destiny regardless of who lost. But it was a big game in that two top 10 teams played.

Losing a single game is unacceptable to Saban. Richt seems to be just fine doing this every year.

So how many undefeated seasons has Nick Saban had?? Again, LSU just had great timing with their 1 and 2 loss seasons unlike Georgia, but you conveniently won't acknowledge that.

**Crickets, sound of tumbleweed rolling by**

[jhay610]

How am I one in a million? He won a national title, atlas? Against Jim Tressel.

So what. Seems everyone that goes to a national title game with Tressel wins, save Miami, who was robbed by that bogus pass interference call. Also, we are talking about a Division I AA national championship here, not IA. Just want to point that out.

But I guess most GA fans are willing to have a team full of undisciplined thugs on and off the field if that means 2.5 losses instead of 3.5.

Hogwash. One loss per season is huge in college football. This stat also conveniently overlooks the fact that the NCAA added an extra game to the schedule beginning in 2006, plus the fact that UGA has played in three extra games against the top opponent from the SEC West in Richt's tenure, in the form of the SEC Championship Game. Plus the fact that UGA has played in consistently better bowl games in Richt's tenure against better opposition than it did in the Donnan era.

Also, I was waiting on the "T" word to come out. This is the canned response from your type, Troy, whenever there are young black athletes that have run-ins with local law enforcement. The fact of the matter is, no coach can babysit all of their players around-the-clock. Keep in mind that these are 18-23 year old kids. Most kids do stupid things. That's just the way it is. Some years are going to be worse than others in this regard and there really is not a crystal ball that will tell you how a kid is going to behave once he gets the freedom to roam a college campus as, um, vibrant as UGA.

Losing a single game is unacceptable to Saban. Richt seems to be just fine doing this every year.

So was the loss to Louisiana-Monroe acceptable then? Saban has never had an undefeated season. He was fortunate in that the year they won the Chip, he was able to sneak in there with a loss. The way the B©S is set up, it really comes down to luck and popular opinion.

Look, Donnan was a good coach and I agree that he didn't really get a fair shake when he was sent packing. He pulled UGA up from the dark ages of the Goff area and brought them to an upper-mid-tier SEC team. They still weren't on a Florida/Tennessee level, though, which they obviously are now. And it wasn't because of lack of talent. There are a lot of players from the Donnan years that have gone on to be absolute studs in the NFL, yet the Dogs, to my knowledge, never even won an SEC East crown.

You can't just say "well Tenn and Florida are down, that's why UGA looks better." There are proportions at work here. UGA is up, therefore the other programs must go down. There are only so many athletes to go around, so every time UGA signs a 5 star recruit, that is one less game-changer that is available to their rival schools. Also note that a "down" Florida team won a national championship just 2 seasons ago.

Every measurable statistic confirms that Mark Richt is a superior coach to Jim Donnan. If Richt's teams are better talented, that is not a strike against his coaching abilities, but rather an endorsement. A large part of coaching in college football is tied up in recruiting. If you can't get the athletes, then you are not a good college football coach. Lloyd Carr is a pretty good coach, but he became irrelevant in his later years because he wasn't pulling the top-flight recruits and it showed on the field.

I just can't gather how anyone could believe that UGA has not progressed since the hiring of Mark Richt and the end of the Donnan years.

Edited October 1, 2008 by jhay610

[DrReality]

did you see where they are moving an OL to tight end. He's 6'6" and 280. Hell of a target and once he catches it he'll be able to rumble.

[TroyMcClure]

So what. Seems everyone that goes to a national title game with Tressel wins, save Miami, who was robbed by that bogus pass interference call. Also, we are talking about a Division I AA national championship here, not IA. Just want to point that out.

Hogwash. One loss per season is huge in college football. This stat also conveniently overlooks the fact that the NCAA added an extra game to the schedule beginning in 2006, plus the fact that UGA has played in three extra games against the top opponent from the SEC West in Richt's tenure, in the form of the SEC Championship Game. Plus the fact that UGA has played in consistently better bowl games in Richt's tenure against better opposition than it did in the Donnan era.

Also, I was waiting on the "T" word to come out. This is the canned response from your type, Troy, whenever there are young black athletes that have run-ins with local law enforcement. The fact of the matter is, no coach can babysit all of their players around-the-clock. Keep in mind that these are 18-23 year old kids. Most kids do stupid things. That's just the way it is. Some years are going to be worse than others in this regard and there really is not a crystal ball that will tell you how a kid is going to behave once he gets the freedom to roam a college campus as, um, vibrant as UGA.

So was the loss to Louisiana-Monroe acceptable then? Saban has never had an undefeated season. He was fortunate in that the year they won the Chip, he was able to sneak in there with a loss. The way the B©S is set up, it really comes down to luck and popular opinion.

Look, Donnan was a good coach and I agree that he didn't really get a fair shake when he was sent packing. He pulled UGA up from the dark ages of the Goff area and brought them to an upper-mid-tier SEC team. They still weren't on a Florida/Tennessee level, though, which they obviously are now. And it wasn't because of lack of talent. There are a lot of players from the Donnan years that have gone on to be absolute studs in the NFL, yet the Dogs, to my knowledge, never even won an SEC East crown.

You can't just say "well Tenn and Florida are down, that's why UGA looks better." There are proportions at work here. UGA is up, therefore the other programs must go down. There are only so many athletes to go around, so every time UGA signs a 5 star recruit, that is one less game-changer that is available to their rival schools. Also note that a "down" Florida team won a national championship just 2 seasons ago.

Every measurable statistic confirms that Mark Richt is a superior coach to Jim Donnan. If Richt's teams are better talented, that is not a strike against his coaching abilities, but rather an endorsement. A large part of coaching in college football is tied up in recruiting. If you can't get the athletes, then you are not a good college football coach. Lloyd Carr is a pretty good coach, but he became irrelevant in his later years because he wasn't pulling the top-flight recruits and it showed on the field.

I just can't gather how anyone could believe that UGA has not progressed since the hiring of Mark Richt and the end of the Donnan years.

First off, my type is unlike anything you know, I guess. I find your response in this area idiotic. It implies racism by me and is totally untrue. A thug is a thug regardless of color. UGA has had quite a few white players with run ins with the law. But I guess you didn't know that. So who's being racist? What ?"type" should I throw you into? Absolutely pathetic, jhay610.

Secondly, I just want to point out that a football game is a football game, no matter the level. By mentioning Tressel I was trying to illustrate that coaches at that level coach the same game and can be very successful at the highest level of college coaching.

Thirdly, this isn't about Jim Donnan. I just said I didn't see how they were really any better. To me, they are not. They always lose a game or two that they shouldn't have and still hurt themselves more than other teams do. That is basically the same thing as under Donnan. I was hating a little as a fan, but the SEC titles the Dawgs have recently should be appreciated.

Fourthly, the loss to Louisiana - Monroe was totally unacceptable. That game was an important lesson that they have learned.

Fifthly, to act like Richt has no control over who he recruits and how they behave is just completely ridiculous.

And lastly, I do agree Georgia has improved... but not really that much.

Edited October 1, 2008 by TroyMcClure

[AtLaS]

Saban and LSU (post Saban) were just lucky with their 1 and 2 loss seasons, as it is with every team, it requires luck. Probably 75% of the time, the 2002 Dawgs would have went to the MNC, but it just so happened that their were 2 undefeated teams that season. If the same happened to Saban, he wouldn't have a championship either. But, he would still be considered a great coach.

They always lose a game or two that they shouldn't have and still hurt themselves more than other teams do.

EVERY team always loses a game or two that they shouldn't have, that's college football. Including your unprecedented coach Saban.

[jhay610]

First off, my type is unlike anything you know, I guess. I find your response in this area idiotic. It implies racism by me and is totally untrue. A thug is a thug regardless of color. UGA has had quite a few white players with run ins with the law. But I guess you didn't know that. So who's being racist? What ?"type" should I throw you into? Absolutely pathetic, jhay610.

Whoa. Strong words. My apologies if I offended you by incorrectly typecasting or stereotyping you. I just get very frustrated by many fans around here who are so quick to throw around the "thug" word when it comes to black athletes. It happened with Michael Vick way before he ran afoul with the law - people wanted him run out town just because he had Rows in his hair. I don't think my words were "idiotic" or "pathetic," I just probably jumped the gun a bit.

I am well aware of the white players and their problems with local law enforcement. Just didnt think you were.

Sorry.