Nice to be 2-0... But Big Al got to provide something in the post.

[Plainview1981]

Watching these two games it's clear the Hawks need some kind of post game. Not really a 20PPG type of guy, but a guy that you can throw it down low to when the game starts to get out of hand like the Philly game. It was almost like watching the 2006 Suns without the shooters in that first half. All the jump shots combined with the defense cause me to throw my remote against the wall which broke it of course.

It's up to Al and Marvin to give something in this area until a player with some kind of post game can be added. I also think that the combo of Evans/Murray will either be really good or completely worthless. That will change from night to night obviously. I noticed Bibby's shoot is as inconsistent as ever.

The good thing is that it doesn't appear that Josh will be sitting on a big contract. JJ looks healthy and ZaZa has give some good effort. But I don't think we'll know how the team is really good to do once they suffer a few L's. Looking at the division though, it seems that Washington has injury problems. Orlando has no depth at all, so a few injury problems could give the Hawks the division title. I don't really see Miami or Charlotte doing much.

[coachx]

I agree.

I love having 3 perimeters shooters in the game with Smith and Horford but your right. We have no post game (other then JJ) with Horford at C and Smith at PF. That will catch up to us on nights where the outside j's are not falling.

If ZaZa keeps his play up (and does not force his own offense) I would be all for giving ZaZa more time at C IF Horford and Smith show they can score more efficiently in the post vs. SFs and PFs. It would make sense to assume that Horford could muscel lighter and shorter PFs around more then he can centers and the same for Smith vs. smaller SFs rather then PFs.

We alwayse got JJ who is, easily, one of the top 3 post up SGs in the league. We could go to that more as long as the other guys like Evans, Bibby (even Law and Marvin) are hitting outside shots. Both Bibby and Evans seem more then adequate to keep the defense honest with JJ in the post. However, with Evans in the game the defense may switch their biggest wing on JJ to better defend him in the post. This is why Marvin has to add that corner 3. With Marvin on the floor, as the SF, the defense has no choice but to play their smaller wing on JJ (who JJ can dominate in the post).

You got to surround your post player with outside shooters and that is the only problem with puting JJ in the post.....he is also our best and most consistent outside shooter.

That will be the 76ers achilles hill. Brand is a heck of post player but they have NO shooters to surround him with.

In a perfect world we would take David Anderson and ZaZa into a lab and mix their DNA. Then we would would have a scrappy center with outside range (a Bill Lambier if you will). The perfect (non allstar) compliment to Smith at SF and Horford at PF to make it easier for them to score in the post but this isn't Mad Science.

We can get to the 2nd round of the playoffs with this team as is. However, to be championship material we have to find a post presence. Maybe that guy is on the team now, maye there not. Time will tell.

One thing is for sure. This roster is deeper then last year. So Woody has to be the mad scientist to find the right chemistry. So far so good ! However, energy and hustle, which seems to be the recipe now, can only take you so far.

Edited November 4, 2008 by coachx

[tonegully]

Thats what they shouldve be practicing in the off season.. creating shots. That goes for Big AL in the post and Marvin off the dribble, but i guess its to late now.

[coachx]

Thats what they shouldve be practicing in the off season.. creating shots. That goes for Big AL in the post and Marvin off the dribble, but i guess its to late now.

Marvin already does a pretty good job on creating off the dribble and getting to the foul line. Didn't he lead the team in FT attempts last year. Its his 3 point shot that needs work and he has been working in it. Hopefully we see results on the floor. If teams have to come up to the 3 point line to guard Marvin he can drive around them with ease. Not to mention the proper spacing it will create on the floor.

The thing with Horford practicing creating space and his post moves is that in practice he is going vs. the likes of ZaZa, Solo, and Morris........He probably scores rather easily vs. them. Not exactly the same level of cometition as the 2 centers he faced this season (Dwight Howard and Samuel Dalembert , who could both be allstar centers this year in the East).

Edited November 4, 2008 by coachx

[crimedog]

Part of it has been strategy as we haven't really made an effort to get the ball to Al or Josh in the post and to an extent we haven't needed to. While Joe is shooting this hot, we are going to go to him if we are playing a good opponent.

We also haven't really run the pick and roll with Bibby and Al or Josh, we haven't really iso'd either in the high post too often... stuff we know is effective, so I wouldn't get too concerned until we start trying it a lot and the guys just can't do it. While Joe is shooting 58% from the field, we are going to run everything through him until we play a crappy team and we can let him breathe and be a spot up shooter for a little.

[Atlsportfanz]

Yeah, in the first two games, I don't think we've run the pick and roll or pick and pop with AL yet. Either one would be nice to see with Bibby or Joe. Probably Bibby since Joe takes two guys with him anyway.

Smith and Marvin need to continue to flash into the paint and Mike and Joe need to look for them when they do.

Horford is going to have his hands full going up against Chandler and I'm hoping that Josh and David West will wash each other out. West is much stronger on offense but Josh is better on defense so who knows?

[crimedog]

Horford is going to have his hands full going up against Chandler and I'm hoping that Josh and David West will wash each other out. West is much stronger on offense but Josh is better on defense so who knows?

I think they might put Josh on Tyson and Al on West because Tyson isn't as much of a threat to score so Josh can roam, then in crunch time they might switch it back.

[coachx]

Speaking of pick and roll !

Our "shooting coach" ,Mark Price, sure could run an effective pick and roll with Brad Daughrety, Larry Nance, or Hot Rod Williams.

I'm sure Bibby can do it if asked but Price would really help polish it. With the way Al is hitting that mid range jumper that could be deadly and should be the go to offense when JJ gets a breather to start the 2nd quarter. (Bibby gets his breather with around 5 minutes to go in the 1st. )Its better then iso's for Flip Murray (even though he is a baller you can iso him any time...preferably when the shot clock is running down, not early in the clock as the first option).

Price may be too soft spoken to ever be a head coach but I bet he could be one heck of an assistant with his weath of knowledge of leading several 50 + win NBA teams throughout his career. Those Cavs had some playoff wars with Jordan's Bulls the players would really relate too come playoff time as well.

Give that man a promotion and get him on the bench ! Heaven forbid he step on Woody's toes an implement such a functional play as the pick and roll. Woody is such an offensive genius and all.

Teams can know the pick and roll is coming all day but you if you run it right, with the right players, its one of the more unstoppable forces in basketball. Just ask Jerry Sloan, Malone, Stockton, D. Williams, Boozer, and Okur.

Bibby / Law and Horford are no Stockton / Malone (yet) but they are good enough and have the skill set to cause some serious damage.

Edited November 4, 2008 by coachx

[AtLaS]

Bibby's bread and butter for his entire career has been the pick and roll. He's a top 5 PG in the NBA at the P&R and it's a shame that we don't let him run it. Him and Horford would be great at it because of Horford's ability to hit the midrange jumper.

[Wretch]

Agreed. We REALLY need some reliable low post options. Though I think it's Smoove and Al that need to provide that low post scoring. I think Marvin needs to continue to attack the basket and he needs to use that little hook that worked for him last year. Most of all, it's up to Woody to make sure we get some inside play. He needs to encourage it and draw up some plays to get it done.

[Atlsportfanz]

I think Al is the perfect guy to run the pick and roll with. Between he and Josh, Al's got the more polished 15 footer. And he's a wider body so Bibby might have more time on the pick.

If they ever run it with Josh, I want him to show the ball and then drive to the hole. No Jumpers!!!

[DrReality]

They do need to put Al in the offense, but he does a lot of things that are not always seen in the box scores. I think the different options of rotations will provide opportunities that will emerge over the season. Good to have something to look forward to.

[Plainview1981]

Part of it has been strategy as we haven't really made an effort to get the ball to Al or Josh in the post and to an extent we haven't needed to. While Joe is shooting this hot, we are going to go to him if we are playing a good opponent.

We also haven't really run the pick and roll with Bibby and Al or Josh, we haven't really iso'd either in the high post too often... stuff we know is effective, so I wouldn't get too concerned until we start trying it a lot and the guys just can't do it. While Joe is shooting 58% from the field, we are going to run everything through him until we play a crappy team and we can let him breathe and be a spot up shooter for a little.

They surely needed to in that game against Philly. Can't expect to be able to overcome being down big very often. There will be plenty of nights where the Hawks can't buy a jump shot in stretches.

[h2t]

Watching these two games it's clear the Hawks need some kind of post game. Not really a 20PPG type of guy, but a guy that you can throw it down low to when the game starts to get out of hand like the Philly game. It was almost like watching the 2006 Suns without the shooters in that first half. All the jump shots combined with the defense cause me to throw my remote against the wall which broke it of course.

It's up to Al and Marvin to give something in this area until a player with some kind of post game can be added. I also think that the combo of Evans/Murray will either be really good or completely worthless. That will change from night to night obviously. I noticed Bibby's shoot is as inconsistent as ever.

The good thing is that it doesn't appear that Josh will be sitting on a big contract. JJ looks healthy and ZaZa has give some good effort. But I don't think we'll know how the team is really good to do once they suffer a few L's. Looking at the division though, it seems that Washington has injury problems. Orlando has no depth at all, so a few injury problems could give the Hawks the division title. I don't really see Miami or Charlotte doing much.

You know we did play against 2 of the best and most athletic centers in the East...Al will be a fine option against all but 3-4 teams in this conference.

Marvin i'm not so sure. Would be pretty sick to get a Dalembert type guy to clog up the middle..then move Al to PF, JS to SF, JJ SG, Bibby/Acie PG. Maybe we already have that guy in Zaza...or am i dreaming? meh

Lets just hope Marvin starts draining 3's so it's a moot point.