Woody SUCKS...............PEROID !

[Plainview1981]

I agree 100% if you're saying that we don't have a high powered offense. But at the same time, our offense doesn't "SUCK". I mean, if you consider offense scoring over 100 points as the bench mark then you must love the Knicks and the Warriors. I tend to believe that the defensive teams actually set a slower pace than those who don't play defense. The Lakers may prove me wrong, but so far, it's pretty accurate.

The scoring is down because the team keeps jacking up 3's and not making them. Outside of Bibby, nobody has actually shot the 3 ball well this month. But when you watch the team you see that the team takes ALOT of random shots. Often the hot hand isn't being fed. Also, it looks like the team often is trying to improvise. There is enough talent on the team that it works sometimes. However, it's been just barely enough to get by.

So, you see a very small point differential. Actually, the team has given up more points than it's scored this month:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...pg&split=41

Maybe the team isn't listening to what Woody says when it comes to the offense, but it doesn't make sense for them to listen to him and play better defense but totally disregard him when it comes to offense. So, I'm going to say that he is a poor offensive coach.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Hotlanta1981

[TruJerz]

Like I said a few weeks back . . .

The minute we become a good team, people will still complain about Woody, because we're not a GREAT team. Woody will never get the credit he deserves on this board, unless we get to the Eastern Conference Finals. And we bet not lose in less than 5 games when we get there. If we do, people will blame him for it.

It'll always be something with Woody that keeps people from giving him his props . . just like it is with Marvin.

I agree..couldnt say it any better. if it aint Woody, its Marvin..WTF is wrong with yal man?? lol

Wake up and stop blaming it all on the coach. you all see all these coaches, whether good or bad, getting fired and its not making a difference..maybe its time to point the finger at someone else. how about the GM or the star players for once..SMH

[DJlaysitup]

Our offense is slowed by a couple things.

1.) Al Horford is really a power forward and simply can't match up inside on offense against 7-footers. He's an effective positional defender and doesn't hurt us overall by any means - but he just can't often post up against the better NBA centers due to size.

This is primarily because - with Woody's system (the old Piston's style offense) we would be better off with a 7-footer of some skill - Al at PF - and JS at SF. Bibby and JJ are a given at the guards. That would be an excellent lineup...but we can't do it because we cling to the hope that Marvin will "mature".

2.) Marvin Williams simply isn't aggressive enough or athletic enough to provide us with true SF productivity. Not just talking about minutes or PPG - but being a real threat who needs to be game planned for and who doesn't disappear at crunch time.

Trade Marvin and filler for a serviceable center and we would be much more formidable in the paint.

....That's your Christmas present Deisel :cheers:

[tonegully]

Well how about we keep Marvin and maybe run some the offense through him. Instead of him just getting shots after JJ dribbles for 20 seconds.

Our offense doesn't flow. Everyone knows how our possessions go. There are numerous times when we are shooting terrible, just terrible shots when more than 15 seconds on the shot clock.

FLOP is not a PG and when he runs the point nothing good happens. He is a shooting guard not a PG. We have a PG sitting on the bench going to waste.

Woody needs to use the bigs on the bench. I bet if he played Solo in the paint to help wear down some of them 7ft. Then AL could get a break with the other teams big man being tired. But really HORF's post up game is horrible. He cant even dribble and back someone down at the same time. He is to busy looking at the ball.

Also when will Smoove develop? He still shoots 3s, does not attack the basket, his BBIQ is still low, his mid range jumper is suspect and his man on man defense is barely average. He lets people back him down or get the ball deep in the paint and he just tries to wait to get a block. Smoove is awsome with weak side D help, but his man on man D is lacking big time.

Personally i think our D needs to step up. We dont play deny the ball type of D. We play the i hope the other team misses D. If we play any other team besides the Thunder we wouldve lost that game.

[HawksBalla]

Unfortunately for your position:

We are 20th in team scoring. Sorry, but this does suck

15th in team FG%. About as mediocre as you can be

10th in 3 Pt%. Remember when we were #1 or #2? Didnt last too long

11th in team assists. This has improved dramatically

9th in team turnovers. I'll take this as well, considering that we run the Iso-Joe offense and play Josh Smith

Statistically, this is not an offense that sucks.

I think this offense is far below what it could be. We run an Iso-Joe offense with our favorite play being Bibby and Joe pass it back and forth until one of them gets open. We dont post up Smith or Horford enough. We dont run enough screen plays for Marvin. And I dont think we run enough for how athletic we are.

My biggest problem is Woody's use of the bench and playing time. See, I'm thinking about later on down the road when we get to the playoffs and our starters are on fumes, Joe especially, and we end up playing the Cavs or Magic. We will never make the nba finals if we are playing an eight-man rotation in December. And not only does it burn us out now, it could have future implications. We have to sign Bibby because Law isnt being developed. And will JJ think about going somewhere else because he's tired of plying 40 minutes a season?

So until the offense improves and our bench gets a chance to develop some confidence, I am not a Woody fan whatsoever.

[Diesel]

I think this offense is far below what it could be.

I have to disagree with you strongly here.

Here's why.

We have nobody on this team who can play a low post offensive game. SMoove doesn't do it. Horford can't do it. And Marvin is just a stand alone set shot shooter. Imagine... we are an 18 win team without a low post scorer?? How many times does that happen? Ever? Had Smoove not been hurt, we would probably have more wins than 18... maybe 23 wins...

Just to prove my point, I will take the top 8 teams in both dvisions.

Team W L +/- GB PCT Team W L +/- GB PCT

1 BostonCeltics 27 4 9 - .871 1 LALakers 24 5 8 - .828

2 ClevelandCavaliers 25 4 10 1.0 .862 2 SanAntonioSpurs 19 10 3 5.0 .655

3 OrlandoMagic 23 6 7 3.0 .793 3 NOrleansHornets 17 9 3 5.5 .654

4 AtlantaHawks 18 10 4 7.5 .643 4 HoustonRockets 19 11 7 5.5 .633

5 DetroitPistons 16 11 2 9.0 .593 5 DenverNuggets 19 11 4 5.5 .633

6 MiamiHeat 16 12 1 9.5 .571 6 PortlandTrailBlazers 18 12 5 6.5 .600

7 NJNets 14 15 -2 12.0 .483 7 DallasMavericks 17 12 3 7.0 .586

8 MilwaukeeBucks 14 16 2 12.5 .467 8 UtahJazz 18 13 3 7.0 .581

Boston = KG and Perkins both can play in the post.

Cleveland = Big Z and varejao can play in the post.

Orlando = Dwight Howard!!

Detroit = Sheed Wallace can score in the post anytime he feels like it.

Miami = Micheal Beasley, Shawn Marion, and Udonnis Haslem all avgs over 12 ppg.

NJ = they have found this guy named lopez...

Milwaukee and Andrew Bogut.

Lakers = Pau. Odom. Bynum.

Spurs = Duncan.

Hornets = West and Chandler.

Rockets = Yao

Nuggets = Nene and Martin.

PTL = Odom.

Dallas =

Utah = Milsap and OKur (not to mention Boozer).

So best case scenerio is that we're like Dallas. We have Iso Joe. They have Iso Dirk.

We have an OG named Bibby. They have an OG named Terry. Otherwise we are different from them.. our similarity is in the fact that we rely on the three point shot to make up for a lack of a post game. You usually don't say that about championship teams. Ours is a personnel problem. If we had Boozer or Stoudamire, I don't think we'd have this problem.

[DJlaysitup]

Boston = KG and Perkins both can play in the post.

Cleveland = Big Z and varejao can play in the post.

Orlando = Dwight Howard!!

Detroit = Sheed Wallace can score in the post anytime he feels like it.

Miami = Micheal Beasley, Shawn Marion, and Udonnis Haslem all avgs over 12 ppg.

NJ = they have found this guy named lopez...

Milwaukee and Andrew Bogut.

Lakers = Pau. Odom. Bynum.

Spurs = Duncan.

Hornets = West and Chandler.

Rockets = Yao

Nuggets = Nene and Martin.

PTL = Odom.

Dallas =

Utah = Milsap and OKur (not to mention Boozer)....

I agree with you D - but I think it shows the lack of post-up talent in the league overall. Let's face it - as far as true post-up moves Miller is better than Dwight Howard (although he is nowhere near the overall impact player). There are so few McHale-like drop step guys around. The guys you mentioned can do it sometimes and a few are real good (like Duncan). That said - we still need to be in the game at that position. An average or borderline post up guy is better than nothing. I guess it's OK to be perimeter oriented on offense - but it helps to have an attacking 2 or 3 - somebody who can really light that fire. We still seem to have a conglomeration of 6'9" (or so) guys who stand around and watch our guards play offense for the most part.

Oddly - even though Zaza has no post moves to speak of - when he's in they often run the O through him a bit and it looks better. (as long as he passes back out).

Edited December 27, 2008 by DJlaysitup

[Plainview1981]

Our offense is slowed by a couple things.

1.) Al Horford is really a power forward and simply can't match up inside on offense against 7-footers. He's an effective positional defender and doesn't hurt us overall by any means - but he just can't often post up against the better NBA centers due to size.

This is primarily because - with Woody's system (the old Piston's style offense) we would be better off with a 7-footer of some skill - Al at PF - and JS at SF. Bibby and JJ are a given at the guards. That would be an excellent lineup...but we can't do it because we cling to the hope that Marvin will "mature".

2.) Marvin Williams simply isn't aggressive enough or athletic enough to provide us with true SF productivity. Not just talking about minutes or PPG - but being a real threat who needs to be game planned for and who doesn't disappear at crunch time.

Trade Marvin and filler for a serviceable center and we would be much more formidable in the paint.

....That's your Christmas present Deisel :cheers:

I would buy your number 1 if the league was full of talented centers, but it's not.

[tonegully]

Our offense is slowed by a couple things.

1.) Al Horford is really a power forward and simply can't match up inside on offense against 7-footers. He's an effective positional defender and doesn't hurt us overall by any means - but he just can't often post up against the better NBA centers due to size.

This is primarily because - with Woody's system (the old Piston's style offense) we would be better off with a 7-footer of some skill - Al at PF - and JS at SF. Bibby and JJ are a given at the guards. That would be an excellent lineup...but we can't do it because we cling to the hope that Marvin will "mature".

2.) Marvin Williams simply isn't aggressive enough or athletic enough to provide us with true SF productivity. Not just talking about minutes or PPG - but being a real threat who needs to be game planned for and who doesn't disappear at crunch time.

Trade Marvin and filler for a serviceable center and we would be much more formidable in the paint.

....That's your Christmas present Deisel :cheers:

Marvin stays dammit..lol

[Diesel]

The scoring is down because the team keeps jacking up 3's and not making them. Outside of Bibby, nobody has actually shot the 3 ball well this month. But when you watch the team you see that the team takes ALOT of random shots. Often the hot hand isn't being fed. Also, it looks like the team often is trying to improvise. There is enough talent on the team that it works sometimes. However, it's been just barely enough to get by.

So, you see a very small point differential. Actually, the team has given up more points than it's scored this month:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...pg&split=41

Maybe the team isn't listening to what Woody says when it comes to the offense, but it doesn't make sense for them to listen to him and play better defense but totally disregard him when it comes to offense. So, I'm going to say that he is a poor offensive coach.

It's almost as if the 129 point outburst from the Hawks tonight was a retort to this post.

[Plainview1981]

It's almost as if the 129 point outburst from the Hawks tonight was a retort to this post.

Well, Chicago hasn't no big men. Other than a shot block or two, Tyrus can't do much on the defensive end and Aaron Gray was the starting center. That's only the second time they've hit 100 points this month on a big home stand. Shall we not forget that they scored 113 points on Chicago before. On top of that, alot of those late 4th period points were stat padding at the end. Chicago kept fouling and putting the Hawks to the line basically after the game was done over.

[bonethugz]

yes i do want law and jones play a little bit more but hey we have 18 wins.

and for last night's game, when we were close in the fourth with zaza and flip on the floor while they were killing us. he took them out and our starters back in and we won. that's not really something but i bet he wouldn't/couldn't do that, let say two years ago. woody is really learning/adjusting.

[Peoriabird]

Our offense is slowed by a couple things.

1.) Al Horford is really a power forward and simply can't match up inside on offense against 7-footers. He's an effective positional defender and doesn't hurt us overall by any means - but he just can't often post up against the better NBA centers due to size.

This is primarily because - with Woody's system (the old Piston's style offense) we would be better off with a 7-footer of some skill - Al at PF - and JS at SF. Bibby and JJ are a given at the guards. That would be an excellent lineup...but we can't do it because we cling to the hope that Marvin will "mature".

2.) Marvin Williams simply isn't aggressive enough or athletic enough to provide us with true SF productivity. Not just talking about minutes or PPG - but being a real threat who needs to be game planned for and who doesn't disappear at crunch time.

Trade Marvin and filler for a serviceable center and we would be much more formidable in the paint.

....That's your Christmas present Deisel :cheers:

You may need to spit out a few more of those black feathers before posting again! The team is pretty good as is, deal with it!

[tonegully]

Im going to go ahead and bump this thread.