Texas A&M vs. Texas on ESPN classic

[uga2006]

Acie Law is beasting. The guy can play Woody just won't play him. It really pisses me off that he's not gonna get a chance to shine as long as Woodson is here.

[Admin]

Acie Law is beasting. The guy can play against NCAA level competition Woody just won't play him. It really pisses me off that he's not gonna get a chance to shine as long as Woodson is here and as long as he's not playing against NCAA level competition.

Corrected

[uga2006]

C'Mon dude. That's not a fair assesment. When he gets minutes he looks good. It's not like the guy is Salim Stoudamire. Joe Johnson didn't look so good when he was with Boston. He got PT in PHX and showed the world what he could. Same with Chauncey.

[Admin]

C'Mon dude. That's not a fair assesment. When he gets minutes he looks good. It's not like the guy is Salim Stoudamire. Joe Johnson didn't look so good when he was with Boston. He got PT in PHX and showed the world what he could. Same with Chauncey.

You're right it was probably a bit harsh based on the fact that I truly like the kid and I do still have hope that he'll become what I envisioned when he was drafted but based on what I've seen in 1.5 years of him in the NBA I don't see anything more than an average backup PG.

Comparing Acie and JJ look at their career numbers:

 Joe

SEASON	FG%	FT%	P/40	R/40	A/40	TS%	Ast	TO	Usg	Reb	PER

2002-03 	.397	.774	14.2	4.7	3.7	47.2	18.0	9.2	18.1	6.6	12.10

2003-04 	.430	.750	16.4	4.6	4.3	49.1	18.5	10.2	20.0	6.6	13.88

2004-05 	.461	.750	17.3	5.2	3.6	55.6	17.1	8.7	17.6	7.0	15.19

2005-06 	.453	.791	19.8	4.0	6.4	53.7	22.9	11.4	23.8	6.0	17.95

2006-07 	.471	.748	24.2	4.1	4.2	55.8	14.6	10.3	26.6	6.1	19.56

2007-08 	.432	.834	21.3	4.4	5.7	53.5	20.1	9.4	24.8	6.4	17.67

2008-09 	.433	.812	22.1	4.5	6.0	52.9	20.7	7.9	25.7	6.6	18.85[/code]




[code] Acie

SEASON	FG%	FT%	P/40	R/40	A/40	TS%	Ast	TO	Usg	Reb	PER

2007-08 	.401	.792	10.9	2.6	5.2	45.5	26.5	13.1	16.5	3.8	7.92

2008-09 	.410	.795	13.2	4.4	6.1	51.9	28.2	12.9	17.9	6.5	11.68

JJ's numbers have gone up in some areas and certainly his PER has gone up, but even in his rookie year his PER was significantly better than what Acie's was as a rookie and was still better than Acie's 2nd year PER. There is reason to be optimistic since Acie's PER jumped up quite a bit this year but if the league average is 15 he's still got quite a way to go before he reaches that level.

Key to Player Statistics

FG% Field-goal Percentage

FT% Free-throw Percentage

P/40 Points per 40 minutes

R/40 Rebounds per 40 minutes

A/40 Assists per 40 minutes

TS% True Shooting Percentage calculates what a player’s shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = (Total points x 50) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44)]

Ast Assist Ratio is the percentage of a player’s possessions that ends in an assist. Assist Ratio = (Assists x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]

Reb Rebound Rate is the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds. Rebound Rate = (Rebounds x Team Minutes) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)]

PER Player Efficiency Rating is my overall rating of a player’s per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season.

TO Turnover Ratio is the percentage of a player’s possessions that end in a turnover. Turnover Ratio = (Turnover x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]

Usg Usage Rate is the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes. Usage Rate = {[FGA + (FT Att. x 0.44) + (Ast x 0.33) + TO] x 40 x League Pace} divided by (Minutes x Team Pace)

Most similar at age is the player who was the most similar to this one at the same age using my Similarity Scores formula. Similarity Scores compare players on several statistical and physical criteria to find the best comparisons from the recent past. These are also used to help generate the projected stats for 2008-09, which appear at the bottom of the chart for each player who played more than 500 minutes.

[coachx]

Acie Law is beasting. The guy can play Woody just won't play him. It really pisses me off that he's not gonna get a chance to shine as long as Woodson is here.

One of the best games I've ever seen. Definately a classic !

Law shows he has some serious range on his jumper in that game. He just has to play to show it. We forget he had a bad wrist most of last season. That has to affect your perimeter shot. Seems like he hit like 43% for 3s his last college last year.

Edited January 23, 2009 by coachx

[Admin]

One of the best games I've ever seen. Definately a classic !

Law shows he has some serious range on his jumper in that game. He just has to play to show it.

I could understand his jumper being inconsistent if the only time he practiced were in games but I'd bet that he takes hundreds of shots nearly every day, if not every day and maybe even more than hundreds. It's clearly all in his mind as to why his jumpshot has been so pitiful in the NBA and it shouldn't take a large number of minutes for him to be able to shoot better than 41% from 2 and 29% from 3. Shooting like that he is a major liability to the team since defenses won't respect him and since we don't have to play him to win games he's going to have to correct that in the minutes that he gets.

[AHF]

I could understand his jumper being inconsistent if the only time he practiced were in games but I'd bet that he takes hundreds of shots nearly every day, if not every day and maybe even more than hundreds. It's clearly all in his mind as to why his jumpshot has been so pitiful in the NBA and it shouldn't take a large number of minutes for him to be able to shoot better than 41% from 2 and 29% from 3. Shooting like that he is a major liability to the team since defenses won't respect him and since we don't have to play him to win games he's going to have to correct that in the minutes that he gets.

Given that Law and Flip are having basically the same effect on the team offensively by statistical measures (see their PER), I would try a new approach of giving Law regular minutes to work through the mental issues. I think there is a huge difference between (1) having a regular (even if small), defined role that won't expand until you improve and (2) having a wholly inconsistent role where you could play 12 minutes or you could sit the next two games on DNP-CD. Even Royal Ivey had a more defined role than Law does.

[coachx]

I could understand his jumper being inconsistent if the only time he practiced were in games but I'd bet that he takes hundreds of shots nearly every day, if not every day and maybe even more than hundreds. It's clearly all in his mind as to why his jumpshot has been so pitiful in the NBA and it shouldn't take a large number of minutes for him to be able to shoot better than 41% from 2 and 29% from 3. Shooting like that he is a major liability to the team since defenses won't respect him and since we don't have to play him to win games he's going to have to correct that in the minutes that he gets.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that he does not play for them a couple minutes at a time. When you get in the game for a 3 or 4 minute run your just getting warm when the coach pulls you. Hard to come in and make perimeter jumpers when your cold and stiff, right ? Especially when your a PG and have to focus on setting your team up and not just getting open shots for yourself...........His first 4 minutes he should focus on driving the ball to get warm and then take your game outside.

Give Law 20 steady minutes (10 - 12 min 1st half and 8-10 in 2nd hallf) and he will warm right up. He might actually warm up to the point where coach has to leave him on the floor.

I would like to see Flip's FG % in his first 3 - 4 minutes on the floor vs. the rest of the time he is on the floor. I bet he difference is pretty staggering.

Edited January 23, 2009 by coachx

[Cwell]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that he does not play for them a couple minutes at a time. When you get in the game for a 3 or 4 minute run your just getting warm when the coach pulls you. Hard to come in and make perimeter jumpers when your cold and stiff, right ?

Give Law 20 minutes steady minutes and he will warm right up.

I would like to see Flip's FG % in his first 3 - 4 minutes on the floor vs. the rest of the time he is on the floor. I bet he difference is pretty staggering.

he's been making the few jumpers he's taken the last few games or so. Any coach should be able to notice that he knocks down the corner 3 at a good rate. Surprised that he has to yell for the ball to get it when he's open in the corner. If it's any shot he's made consistently this year it's the corner 3.

[Admin]

Given that Law and Flip are having basically the same effect on the team offensively by statistical measures (see their PER), I would try a new approach of giving Law regular minutes to work through the mental issues. I think there is a huge difference between (1) having a regular (even if small), defined role that won't expand until you improve and (2) having a wholly inconsistent role where you could play 12 minutes or you could sit the next two games on DNP-CD. Even Royal Ivey had a more defined role than Law does.

Agreed on the consistent role thing, that's definitely important. If I had to guess as to why Flip is getting the bulk of the minutes here are a few telling stats:

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809ATL1.HTM

• +/- Flip has a +37 and Acie has a -44
  
• Net48 Flip has a plus 2.0 while Acie is a -6.7
  
• Win% Flip has a 55.3 while Law has a 37.9
  

Considering that they have an equal PER and the scoring per 40 is only about 4 ppg I'm guessing that defense is the big area where Flip has made a difference compared to when Acie is on the floor.

Legend:

* Min = the percentage of the team's total minutes the player was on the floor.

* +/- = net points (+/-) for the team while the player was on the floor.

* Net48 = the team net points per 48 minutes of playing time for the player.

* W = number of games a player's team outscored its opponents while he was on the court.

* L = number of games a player's team was outscored by its opponents while he was on the court.

* Win% = the winning percentage for the player based on Wins versus Losses.

[HawkItus]

I just don't see what the hoopla is about with Acie. Okay even if you guys that complain are right, we are winning. So for you to take that as meaning Woody is a bad coach(not saying he's great) is baffling. CNN/SI had an interesting article about two other highly touted rookies who are struggling.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...x.htm?eref=sisf

notice who won of the coaches is :magnifier:

[Admin]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that he does not play for them a couple minutes at a time. When you get in the game for a 3 or 4 minute run your just getting warm when the coach pulls you. Hard to come in and make perimeter jumpers when your cold and stiff, right ? Especially when your a PG and have to focus on setting your team up and not just getting open shots for yourself...........His first 4 minutes he should focus on driving the ball to get warm and then take your game outside.

Give Law 20 steady minutes (10 - 12 min 1st half and 8-10 in 2nd hallf) and he will warm right up. He might actually warm up to the point where coach has to leave him on the floor.

I would like to see Flip's FG % in his first 3 - 4 minutes on the floor vs. the rest of the time he is on the floor. I bet he difference is pretty staggering.

You may be right but how long do you attempt that experiment of giving Law 20 steady minutes before you decide that it's working or not? Looking at the stats I posted above it's obvious that we're a significantly better team with Flip on the floor and with a 1.6 margin of a victory do we toy with what is working and give Acie a huge increase in minutes, thereby decreasing Flip's minutes as well and risk losing games? I just don't think we're in a position where we have to play Acie x amount of minutes since we have a starting PG and we're a playoff team as currently managed. Yeah it sucks if Acie doesn't pan out but we can't risk losing games just to try and get him minutes if he's hurting the team. Believe me I'd love nothing more than to see him succeed but the team will always come before the player to me and Acie won't be the first or the last player in the league to have to prove himself in limited minutes and if he's not capable of doing that then I wish him the best but we'll move on and look for someone else to be our backup PG and possible PG of the future.

[Cwell]

Agreed on the consistent role thing, that's definitely important. If I had to guess as to why Flip is getting the bulk of the minutes here are a few telling stats:

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809ATL1.HTM

• +/- Flip has a +37 and Acie has a -44
  
• Net48 Flip has a plus 2.0 while Acie is a -6.7
  
• Win% Flip has a 55.3 while Law has a 37.9
  

Considering that they have an equal PER and the scoring per 40 is only about 4 ppg I'm guessing that defense is the big area where Flip has made a difference compared to when Acie is on the floor.

Legend:

* Min = the percentage of the team's total minutes the player was on the floor.

* +/- = net points (+/-) for the team while the player was on the floor.

* Net48 = the team net points per 48 minutes of playing time for the player.

* W = number of games a player's team outscored its opponents while he was on the court.

* L = number of games a player's team was outscored by its opponents while he was on the court.

* Win% = the winning percentage for the player based on Wins versus Losses.

those stats won't mean anything because flip has gotten significantly more minutes all season.

[Admin]

he's been making the few jumpers he's taken the last few games or so. Any coach should be able to notice that he knocks down the corner 3 at a good rate. Surprised that he has to yell for the ball to get it when he's open in the corner. If it's any shot he's made consistently this year it's the corner 3.

He shouldn't be in the corner though. How often does any offense, let alone ours, look to put the PG in the corner? He should be in the middle of the court near the 3pt line since the PG is supposed to be the one that calls the plays and is supposed to be the best passer. If we have to reposition other players on offense just to get him in a comfortable spot then that's a poor option.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying that is where his best shots come from, I'm taking your word for it.

Also, in the 7 games we've had in January he's shot 10 - 22 from 2 (45%) which is up from his season average of 41% and he's 2 - 5 from 3 (40%) which is up from his season average of 29% so hopefully he's getting his rhythm but now that he's injured again that might not happen.

[Admin]

those stats won't mean anything because flip has gotten significantly more minutes all season.

That's exactly the point of those stats, which is why I haven't used raw numbers for him since that would be skewed due to his minutes.

[Cwell]

He shouldn't be in the corner though. How often does any offense, let alone ours, look to put the PG in the corner? He should be in the middle of the court near the 3pt line since the PG is supposed to be the one that calls the plays and is supposed to be the best passer. If we have to reposition other players on offense just to get him in a comfortable spot then that's a poor option.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying that is where his best shots come from, I'm taking your word for it.

Also, in the 7 games we've had in January he's shot 10 - 22 from 2 (45%) which is up from his season average of 41% and he's 2 - 5 from 3 (40%) which is up from his season average of 29% so hopefully he's getting his rhythm but now that he's injured again that might not happen.

i'm pretty sure he doesn't go in the corner because he wants to and seeing as how everyone has noticed that woody likes to play flip at the point even when Law is in the game is another reason he is in the corner

[Admin]

i'm pretty sure he doesn't go in the corner because he wants to and seeing as how everyone has noticed that woody likes to play flip at the point even when Law is in the game is another reason he is in the corner

If Acie and Flip are in the game together and Flip is the PG then I have no problem with Acie being the corner sometimes.

[Guest]

Given that Law and Flip are having basically the same effect on the team offensively by statistical measures (see their PER),

If PER weren't flawed, I might agree with you.

[DrReality]

There is a clear pattern with Woody and one or more players that he seems to give the cold shoulder. This is simply immature and not in the best interest of the team.

I think he need to EVALUATE HIS OWN SHORTCOMINGS before he can criticze Acie.

[coachx]

You may be right but how long do you attempt that experiment of giving Law 20 steady minutes before you decide that it's working or not? Looking at the stats I posted above

When one guy plays 3 out of 5 games and only gets 7 minutes while the other guy gets 20 minutes every night.....your "per" stats should be thrown out the window don't you think ?

How long to try the experiment ? 20 games or so should give you a better idea then 5 minutes one game, no minutes the next two, and then 15 minutes in then 4th game where he si only playing cause its a blow out..........that not how you groom PGs.

I am happy the team is winning and I'm happy with Flip.....just not at PG.