Kobe vs. Lebron vs. MJ

[HawkItus]

Forget titles etc.

All are in their prime and you have to pick one to team with against the other two in a pick up game. Who are you choosing?

Edited February 4, 2009 by sultanofatl

[TruJerz]

Forget titles etc.

All are in their prime and you have to pick one to team with against the other two in a pick up game. Who are you choosing?

All are going to be compared for years to come. but with no titles in the discussion, I have to go with LeBron, MJ and then Kobe..in that order. Im not even the biggest LeBron fan but this guy will probably end up being the best thing to ever touch a basketball. idk if he will ever get that long range shot down consistantly, but if he does, he would be hard to match because after that, he has no weakness on the floor..he's my choice

[AHF]

For a pickup two on two game, I pick MJ then Kobe and last Lebron because whoever I pick will be vastly superior to me and is going to need to do pretty much everything and MJ has the best combination of scoring and defense. (Lebron's passing skills would be next to worthless in this setting). Of these three, I think Lebron could be most easily contained in a one on one matchup.

If I was putting together an NBA team, MJ then Lebron then Kobe.

[HawkItus]

For a pickup two on two game, I pick MJ then Kobe and last Lebron because whoever I pick will be vastly superior to me and is going to need to do pretty much everything and MJ has the best combination of scoring and defense. (Lebron's passing skills would be next to worthless in this setting). Of these three, I think Lebron could be most easily contained in a one on one matchup.

If I was putting together an NBA team, MJ then Lebron then Kobe.

That's exactly how I meant it to be looked at. Basically who would give you the best chance at winning. I go Lebron, MJ, then Kobe. I think his superior size would make him the best choice for rebounding and post up options.

[AHF]

That's exactly how I meant it to be looked at. Basically who would give you the best chance at winning. I go Lebron, MJ, then Kobe. I think his superior size would make him the best choice for rebounding and post up options.

I just don't see Lebron stopping MJ, and I see MJ getting a reasonable # of stops on Lebron. His superior size would make things tough, although it is worth noting that the difference in # of boards between MJ and Lebron isn't that big. At the end of the day, though, I just trust in MJ's ultra-competitive nature and his sheer will to win. I'm not sure there is anyone I would pick to beat him in a one on one (which is what having two of me playing with Lebron and MJ respectively would amount to).

[macdaddy]

I'd pick lebron. But as much as hate Kobe I think he's probably a more consistent long range shooter which would really help in 2 on 2.

[dlpin]

MJ, by far.

Is Lebron incredibly impressive? Yes. Certainly the best or close to the best combination of physical skills the game has ever seen. A freak a la magic johnson.

But the competitive drive of MJ is miles ahead of either. What I mean by this is that MJ always worked extremely hard on his game. He evolved from this great athlete to a great basketball player. People are denying him the lane? He worked on his jumpshot and his 3 pt shot. People are putting smaller, quicker guys who can stay with him? He developed a very good post game that killed GP and so on. After a while, there wasnt a single weak spot in his game. And this not to mention his intensity on defense.

Lebron, however, has only now started showing a few signs of that. And the best evidence of this is his playoff stats. MJ shot over 48%, including over 33% from 3pt, and just 3 turn overs. Lebron's playoff career averages are not only much worse, but have been deteriorating as teams figure him out. Declining FG % (under 42% the last 2 years), declingin 3pt shooting, increasing turnovers (over 4 per game last playoffs).

And even this season, with all the additional help, improved work ethic and all, his eFG% from jumpshots is still around the 40% mark.

If he ever becomes like MJ, a competitive nut that works relentlessly on his short comings, then yeah I could see him moving ahead. Until then, he will constantly be eliminated in the playoffs against good defense teams that close the lane and dare him to beat them from the outside, like the spurs and the celtics did to great effect. Even in a pick up game that would be the case. Maybe even more, considering how good a defender MJ was. Pick MJ, set him on Lebron, watch Lebron brick from afar.

And all of this without even going into the discussion related to the rules in place in the different eras. I would love to see MJ in his prime with all the hand checking rules and defensive 3 second rules we have today.

Edit: not to forget MJ's infamous off-season pick up games that he organized, where people said he was as competitive as during the regular season.

Edited February 4, 2009 by dlpin

[Popeye]

MJ....>....Lebron....>....Kobe

[AtLaS]

If we're talking who do we want for an NBA team, it's Jordan by a mile IMO.

However, in a 2v2 setting, I think LeBron would be the best choice because of his size. With no big guys help defending inside, how do you stop him from driving? He's too big and athletic IMO.

[HawkItus]

However, in a 2v2 setting, I think LeBron would be the best choice because of his size. With no big guys help defending inside, how do you stop him from driving? He's too big and athletic IMO.

Exactly I'm talking at the gym 2 vs. 2. I mean this guy is a power forward with a guards game. I will say this though. I couldn't think of a fourth to even this out. But, if I could've it would be interesting to see if any combination of Kobe/???? would rival a Jorda/Lebron team.

[AHF]

If we're talking who do we want for an NBA team, it's Jordan by a mile IMO.

However, in a 2v2 setting, I think LeBron would be the best choice because of his size. With no big guys help defending inside, how do you stop him from driving? He's too big and athletic IMO.

I think Jordan could stay in between Lebron and the rim enough to bother him and would be strong enough to not simply get bulled over by James. If Lebron wants to shoot jumpers, his effective FG% is only like 40% so that isn't going to get it done. I don't know how Lebron could stop Jordan at his prime on the other end.

[Frenzy]

Lebron isnt even in his prime yet really.......i know scary

[tonegully]

Lebron really does not impress me that much. Dam i wish there was Dennis Rodman player out there who takes pride and loves to play man on man defense. I bet Rodman could shut him down or make his game a living hell.

Lebron is nowhere near MJ. Jordan's game is all around. Anyplace anytime you could count on Jordan in the lane, midrange and 3pt range.

MJ hands down.

[dlpin]

If we're talking who do we want for an NBA team, it's Jordan by a mile IMO.

However, in a 2v2 setting, I think LeBron would be the best choice because of his size. With no big guys help defending inside, how do you stop him from driving? He's too big and athletic IMO.

If there is anyone who could stop lebron form driving, it would be Jordan. He had the lateral mobility (and then some) needed to stay in front of Lebron. That is precisely my point when I compared the two.

Jordan had a complete game. Even when all he had alongside him was a third year Pippen, and teams were double and triple teaming him, he still shot 50% from the field. And this in an era where you could hand check your opponent at will, and there was no def. 3 second. So the rules made it much harder on driving to the paint, and he still was awesome against some of the best teams ever. People tried putting bigger guys on him, and he drove past them, and then they tried to put smaller guys on him to prevent him from driving, and he just shot over them.

The only way Lebron would ever beat Jordan in a 1v1 or even 2v2 is if he developed an outside shot, so he could shoot over Jordan, or if he developed a post game, so he could post up Jordan. He hasnt developed either. I just cant imagine Lebron beating MJ off the dribble. He couldnt do it last year against Posey, and the year before against Bowen. If he ever got a jumpshot or a post game, watch out. But until then, there is a reason one averaged close to 50% in the playoffs and the other 41. Size is unrelated to being able to drive inside.

[Popeye]

Lebron is a great player and all, but MJ is more competitive.

[TruJerz]

If there is anyone who could stop lebron form driving, it would be Jordan. He had the lateral mobility (and then some) needed to stay in front of Lebron. That is precisely my point when I compared the two.

Jordan had a complete game. Even when all he had alongside him was a third year Pippen, and teams were double and triple teaming him, he still shot 50% from the field. And this in an era where you could hand check your opponent at will, and there was no def. 3 second. So the rules made it much harder on driving to the paint, and he still was awesome against some of the best teams ever. People tried putting bigger guys on him, and he drove past them, and then they tried to put smaller guys on him to prevent him from driving, and he just shot over them.

The only way Lebron would ever beat Jordan in a 1v1 or even 2v2 is if he developed an outside shot, so he could shoot over Jordan, or if he developed a post game, so he could post up Jordan. He hasnt developed either. I just cant imagine Lebron beating MJ off the dribble. He couldnt do it last year against Posey, and the year before against Bowen. If he ever got a jumpshot or a post game, watch out. But until then, there is a reason one averaged close to 50% in the playoffs and the other 41. Size is unrelated to being able to drive inside.

As great and competitive as MJ was, i dont think he can stop LeBron..i dont think anyone could. LeBron isnt my favorite player or anything but i just think he has all the tools to be the best ever..he isnt even in his prime yet! You may think im crazy now but in 5-7 years you will see that I mean

[AtLaS]

and there was no def. 3 second. So the rules made it much harder on driving to the paint, and he still was awesome against some of the best teams ever. People tried putting bigger guys on him, and he drove past them, and then they tried to put smaller guys on him to prevent him from driving, and he just shot over them.

I agree completely, which is why I said I'd definitely take Jordan in a 5v5 setting, easily.

But about the defensive 3 second call, they didn't have one. But they did have illegal defenses, where if your man was standing by the 3pt line you couldn't be standing in the paint. This was a huge advantage for slashers when teams cleared out the paint. Those two rules probably offset. If you just watch how the Celtics guarded (and severely slowed down) LeBron and Kobe in their series, most of the defense they played would have been illegal in the 90s.

The only way Lebron would ever beat Jordan in a 1v1 or even 2v2 is if he developed an outside shot, so he could shoot over Jordan, or if he developed a post game, so he could post up Jordan. He hasnt developed either. I just cant imagine Lebron beating MJ off the dribble. He couldnt do it last year against Posey, and the year before against Bowen. If he ever got a jumpshot or a post game, watch out. But until then, there is a reason one averaged close to 50% in the playoffs and the other 41. Size is unrelated to being able to drive inside.

I don't know, this is all speculation but it would be fun to see!

[AHF]

But about the defensive 3 second call, they didn't have one. But they did have illegal defenses, where if your man was standing by the 3pt line you couldn't be standing in the paint. This was a huge advantage for slashers when teams cleared out the paint. Those two rules probably offset. If you just watch how the Celtics guarded (and severely slowed down) LeBron and Kobe in their series, most of the defense they played would have been illegal in the 90s.

It is much easier to drive today than it was in the late 80s/early 90s. Someone like Tony Parker would be a fraction of the player he is now if he played in an earlier era because they would hammer him, muscle him, and grab him enough to keep him from being anywhere close to as effective in the paint as he is.

As has been pointed out already, if Lebron was really unstoppable he would be shooting better than 41% in the playoffs.

Lebron's eFG% in the playoffs is .464.

Paul Pierce's eFG% in the playoffs is .469 meaning Lebron has been more stoppable than Pierce.

Jordan's eFG% in the playoffs was .503.

Edited February 5, 2009 by AHF

[HawkItus]

all these numbers are with 5 men on the floor. I'm sorry, but give me Lebron on the post against Jordan any day. There is only one other guy in a 2 on 2 who could double, leaving whoever plays with Lebron wide open.

[AHF]

all these numbers are with 5 men on the floor. I'm sorry, but give me Lebron on the post against Jordan any day. There is only one other guy in a 2 on 2 who could double, leaving whoever plays with Lebron wide open.

I'd LOVE that if I were playing with MJ. Let the "other" guy shoot instead of Lebron.

Sorry, but each of us is so far below Lebron and MJ that this would basically be an exercise in one on one play.

The shooting #s are with 5 men on the floor, but they are revealing for how each guy shoots under defensive pressure and you know MJ would be giving Lebron more defensive pressure than he gets from anyone in the NBA today.

I just have a hard time believing anyone who saw the full career of both these guys would pick either Kobe or Lebron over MJ for this type of game, but not everyone will agree on everything.