Where's Diesel now

[Diesel]

So where is the evidence.

My problem isn't whether or not Marvin should come off the bench. My problem is the countless posts you made using the results of the games to draw conclusions (JJ better at the 3, chemistry better without Marvin, etc). Then when the outcomes of the games aren't to your liking you completely dismiss them.

Playing the best teams in the league without their best players shouldn't be such a struggle. We played the Spurs without Duncan and with Manu scoring only 2 pts on 1-7 shooting. We nearly beat a healthy Spurs team in San Antonio with Marvin. We played Boston twice without KG AND his backup and they killed us. When we played a healthy Boston with Marvin we had the lead until a last second shot by Pierce. Young got hurt in the first quarter against Philly and he was by far their best offensive player in March yet they still handle us. JJ usually owns Orlando. He has for years.

You were going on and on about How JJ lit up Posey. What 3 have the Hawks faced lately who has a 3 that plays better D than Posey?

You need to make up your mind. I have a very simple question for you. Do the games played without Marvin matter or not?

Like I said before, there are many variables. It's not JJ's fault if Woody elects to keep him at the 2 and replace him with Flip or Mario but not play him, Flip, and Bibby together. It's not JJ's fault that Acie's not there to play BU to Bibby and allow Flip to play More 2.

Check your games.

Utah.

Law and Flip played more, Mo played less.

PTL

Bibby, Flip played more... Mo, less.

Philly

Vs. Philly...

Mo played 30 minutes.

vs. Boston

Mo played 26 minutes.

Orlando

Mo played about 27 minutes.

IF you want a rule.. then the more Mo plays, the less time JJ can play at the 3. Leads to losing. I bet you can track those losses to close games (within 10) where Mo plays more than 25 minutes.

Of course, when we blow a team out, Mo will get more than 25 min. But in close games... Mo over 25 = bad.

[exodus]

Let's try this for a third time. I am going to keep asking until you actually answer the question.

Do the games the Hawks have played without Marvin count or not?

A simple yes or no will do.

IF you want a rule.. then the more Mo plays, the less time JJ can play at the 3.

That is pretty funny coming from the guy who said Mo in the starting lineup moves JJ to the 3.

Edited April 6, 2009 by exodus

[Diesel]

I think that Diesel needs a standing 8 count because he sounds pretty punch drunk in this thread!

P-Bird. how does it feel being Diesel's own internet stalker?

Seriously... Do you think anybody takes you seriously when 9/10ths of your post are about diesel and not about basketball?

It's good to know that when you're not hugging Marvin's nuts, that your trying to stalk me...

Let's try this for a third time. I am going to keep asking until you actually answer the question.

Do the games the Hawks have played without Marvin count or not?

A simple yes or no will do.

That is pretty funny coming from the guy who said Mo in the starting lineup moves JJ to the 3.

Sure they do, why wouldn't they?

[exodus]

P-Bird. how does it feel being Diesel's own internet stalker?

Seriously... Do you think anybody takes you seriously when 9/10ths of your post are about diesel and not about basketball?

It's good to know that when you're not hugging Marvin's nuts, that your trying to stalk me...

Sure they do, why wouldn't they?

Because they don't fit your agenda.

After a few games you were quick to proclaim that Marvin's absence was the reason for JJ's increased production. I even bumped your "JJ and Smoove better without Marvin" thread for reference.

I could use Diesel logic and. looking only at the last 5 games, say that JJ is struggling horribly without marvin averaging only 15 ppg shooting 34%.

Either all the games without Marvin count or none of them count. You can't pick and choose which games count and which games don't which is exactly what you are trying to do.

[Diesel]

Because they don't fit your agenda.

After a few games you were quick to proclaim that Marvin's absence was the reason for JJ's increased production. I even bumped your "JJ and Smoove better without Marvin" thread for reference.

I could use Diesel logic and. looking only at the last 5 games, say that JJ is struggling horribly without marvin averaging only 15 ppg shooting 34%.

Either all the games without Marvin count or none of them count. You can't pick and choose which games count and which games don't which is exactly what you are trying to do.

You mean games where JJ played more time at the Sf?

If you could go through and tally how much JJ played Sf in wins vs. Losses, you would have something. JJ doesn't determine when he plays Sf, however, when he does, we play better... PERIOD.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

If I could control Woody to play JJ at Sf primarily, then you'd have your answer, but I can't and you don't. However, when we did, we played very well... beating the likes of Utah, PTL, and LAL.

You want to harp about losses against Philly, Boston, and Orlando but not consider the fact hat Mo played most of the Sf minutes during those games. And yes, those games count too... in fact, they help prove the point.

[exodus]

You mean games where JJ played more time at the Sf?

If you could go through and tally how much JJ played Sf in wins vs. Losses, you would have something. JJ doesn't determine when he plays Sf, however, when he does, we play better... PERIOD.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

If I could control Woody to play JJ at Sf primarily, then you'd have your answer, but I can't and you don't. However, when we did, we played very well... beating the likes of Utah, PTL, and LAL.

You want to harp about losses against Philly, Boston, and Orlando but not consider the fact hat Mo played most of the Sf minutes during those games. And yes, those games count too... in fact, they help prove the point.

Let me let you in on a little secret. When Mo and JJ are in the game together it is the other team, not Woody, who decides what player guards JJ and what player guards Mo. If the other team wants to put a shooting guard on JJ they will and if they want to put a small forward on him they will. Woody has nothing to do with it.

JJ has the ball almost all the time in our offense regardless of whether he plays the 2 or the 3.

Edited April 6, 2009 by exodus

[AtLaS]

You mean games where JJ played more time at the Sf?

If you could go through and tally how much JJ played Sf in wins vs. Losses, you would have something. JJ doesn't determine when he plays Sf, however, when he does, we play better... PERIOD.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

If I could control Woody to play JJ at Sf primarily, then you'd have your answer, but I can't and you don't. However, when we did, we played very well... beating the likes of Utah, PTL, and LAL.

You want to harp about losses against Philly, Boston, and Orlando but not consider the fact hat Mo played most of the Sf minutes during those games. And yes, those games count too... in fact, they help prove the point.

All of these games have something in common. Marvin was missing. When he's missing and Mo starts, JJ is the SF. The fact is that JJ has played most of his minutes at the SF since Marvin has been out yet you want to dismiss them only in the games in which we lost. Seriously, just admit you have allergic reaction to all things Marvin.

Yes, I realize Smith started at SF a few times, but he still didn't play most of his minutes there, JJ did. It was similar to Ivey starting at PG and he still only played a little at the position.

[exodus]

All of these games have something in common. Marvin was missing. When he's missing and Mo starts, JJ is the SF. The fact is that JJ has played most of his minutes at the SF since Marvin has been out yet you want to dismiss them only in the games in which we lost. Seriously, just admit you have allergic reaction to all things Marvin.

Yes, I realize Smith started at SF a few times, but he still didn't play most of his minutes there, JJ did. It was similar to Ivey starting at PG and he still only played a little at the position.

Actually Smith only started at the 3 once, against Boston.

Personally i think the deal with JJ is this: When Marvin went down he looked for his shot more often and was hot. Other teams, seeing this, focused more of their defense on JJ to force the other Hawks to beat them.

[Diesel]

All of these games have something in common. Marvin was missing. When he's missing and Mo starts, JJ is the SF. The fact is that JJ has played most of his minutes at the SF since Marvin has been out yet you want to dismiss them only in the games in which we lost. Seriously, just admit you have allergic reaction to all things Marvin.

Yes, I realize Smith started at SF a few times, but he still didn't play most of his minutes there, JJ did. It was similar to Ivey starting at PG and he still only played a little at the position.

Joe is definitely bigger than Mo, but Mo starts at Sf.

[AtLaS]

Joe is definitely bigger than Mo, but Mo starts at Sf.

But, I thought you said JJ was playing SF when he was dominating and Marvin was out? If not than what was the point of that huge thread you started?

[exodus]

Joe is definitely bigger than Mo, but Mo starts at Sf.

So Woody is able to dictate whether JJ is guarded by the opposing team's 2 or it's 3? If that is the case why did he decide to make the other teams 2 guard JJ these last few games when he was having so much success against the opposing team's 3s?

:laughing5:

Edited April 7, 2009 by exodus

[Diesel]

So Woody is able to dictate whether JJ is guarded by the opposing team's 2 or it's 3? If that is the case why did he decide to make the other teams 2 guard JJ these last few games when he was having so much success against the opposing team's 3s?

:laughing5:

Yeah. It's call adjusting the lineup. If Woody puts Bibby, Flip and Joe on the floor together.. .what do you think will happen?

Boy, you're easy like a horny prom date.

[HamHawk]

I saw a point when this thread began. . . . now I'm entirely lost. Is the point still there because I simply can not find it anymore. . ..

[exodus]

Yeah. It's call adjusting the lineup. If Woody puts Bibby, Flip and Joe on the floor together.. .what do you think will happen?

Boy, you're easy like a horny prom date.

When has Flip been in the starting lineup?

[Diesel]

When has Flip been in the starting lineup?

Adding in new things i see....

Wasn't this your question?

So Woody is able to dictate whether JJ is guarded by the opposing team's 2 or it's 3? If that is the case why did he decide to make the other teams 2 guard JJ these last few games when he was having so much success against the opposing team's 3s?

There's no "starting" prerequisite mentioned there. You've tried so hard to get that point in.. that when it's totally crushed what do you do? make up more s---.

Typical.

[HamHawk]

So if JJ is guarded by the 2 and rolls over to the 3 divided by 1 . . . .carry the 7. . . . then something about "Flip"ping the whole fraction when it's done. . . . .

I hate math.

[exodus]

Adding in new things i see....

Wasn't this your question?

There's no "starting" prerequisite mentioned there. You've tried so hard to get that point in.. that when it's totally crushed what do you do? make up more s---.

Typical.

I guess you forgot your earlier post.

Joe is definitely bigger than Mo, but Mo starts at Sf.

So are you willing to concede that JJ has been starting at the 3 ever since Marvin has been out, or are you trying to say that JJ started at the 3 only in the games he played well?

If you aren't willing to concede that JJ has been starting at the 3 ever since marvin has been out i have a question. How can Woody dictate who guards JJ at the start of the games?

Edited April 7, 2009 by exodus

[exodus]

Are you really trying to say that playing Mo 7-13 fewer minutes per game is enough to allow JJ to score 30 instead of 15?

Against Dallas and Boston Mo played a total of 59 minutes and JJ scored a total of 46 pts.

http://www.nba.com/games/20090327/BOSATL/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20090319/DALATL/boxscore.html

Edited April 7, 2009 by exodus

[Diesel]

I guess you forgot your earlier post.

So are you willing to concede that JJ has been starting at the 3 ever since Marvin has been out, or are you trying to say that JJ started at the 3 only in the games he played well?

If you aren't willing to concede that JJ has been starting at the 3 ever since marvin has been out i have a question. How can Woody dictate who guards JJ at the start of the games?

No...

If Mo is on the floor, more than likely, JJ is at the 2.

[Diesel]

Are you really trying to say that playing Mo 7-13 fewer minutes per game is enough to allow JJ to score 30 instead of 15?

Against Dallas and Boston Mo played a total of 59 minutes and JJ scored a total of 46 pts.

http://www.nba.com/games/20090327/BOSATL/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20090319/DALATL/boxscore.html

If Mo is on the floor, JJ is at the 2. When Flip & Bibs (or Law) is on the floor, JJ is at the 3. Period.