Bibby on Smoove.

[AtLaS]

That's not true. I defend Woody as much as anyone but I know our offense sucks and I don't simply look at our accomplishments ... but I also realize that we could be worse with another coach just as we could be better with another coach. My defense of Woody is that unless there is an absolute upgrade available then a change for the sake of change is very risky.

Teams that are incredibly inconsistent is usually either a huge sign of bad coaching, or a very young team who doesn't have much experience together. Yeah we're young, but we've been together a while to the point where we're an above average team. We should not be this inconsistent considering the weapons we have.

The reason Joe is so inconsistent is because all we do is run ISOs. If he's not hitting shots we usually lose. He isn't LeBron/Kobe/Wade where you can get away with an offense like that. I understand we have to run ISO's sometimes, but not to the extent that we do. We will NEVER be a consistent team without an offensive structure.

[Admin]

Because Bibby told Woodson, "Well don't put him there, what do you want me to do, he's wide open". If Woodson is putting him there than that's his fault.

Assuming that the original quote in the first post is accurate then that's not the correct quote that you're using. It's

"If you don’t want me to throw to him put him somewhere else,” Bibby shouted. “He’s wide [@*&$%] open. Wide open. What do you want me to do? If you don’t want him shooting that then put him somewhere else. You tell him.”

That quote doesn't say that Woody put him there, it's Bibby telling Woody that he should put him elsewhere.

[Admin]

Teams that are incredibly inconsistent is usually either a huge sign of bad coaching, or a very young team who doesn't have much experience together. Yeah we're young, but we've been together a while to the point where we're an above average team. We should not be this inconsistent considering the weapons we have.

The reason Joe is so inconsistent is because all we do is run ISOs. If he's not hitting shots we usually lose. He isn't LeBron/Kobe/Wade where you can get away with an offense like that. I understand we have to run ISO's sometimes, but not to the extent that we do. We will NEVER be a consistent team without an offensive structure.

I don't disagree with that at all, I just like to bring up caution for those that want change without weighing the pros and cons of that change. The fact is that Woody is well liked by our team captain and I'd assume most of the guys on the team and if we bring in someone that might have a better system he might be disliked by the players and they might not play hard for him. And at that point do you then go look for another coach or do you replace the players?

[AtLaS]

Assuming that the original quote in the first post is accurate then that's not the correct quote that you're using. It's

That quote doesn't say that Woody put him there, it's Bibby telling Woody that he should put him elsewhere.

Yeah I just paraphrased the quote. But, that's how it read to me. It sounds like Bibby's frustrated that Woodson would yell at him and he's not even telling Smith to go somewhere else. If Smith is constantly floating in the corner, that's the coaches fault. You don't allow that to happen.

If he's telling Woodson to "put him elsewhere", that to me means he's putting him in the corner. I remember a few years ago before Smith started shooting threes and our offense at the end of games was a pure two man game with Lue and Joe, while Childress and Smith stood in the corner completely alienated from the offense. Somehow I get the same feeling here.

[Admin]

Yeah I just paraphrased the quote. But, that's how it read to me. It sounds like Bibby's frustrated that Woodson would yell at him and he's not even telling Smith to go somewhere else. If Smith is constantly floating in the corner, that's the coaches fault. You don't allow that to happen.

If he's telling Woodson to "put him elsewhere", that to me means he's putting him in the corner. I remember a few years ago before Smith started shooting threes and our offense at the end of games was a pure two man game with Lue and Joe, while Childress and Smith stood in the corner completely alienated from the offense. Somehow I get the same feeling here.

These are the things that I see:

• Smoove shouldn't be anywhere near the 3 pt line.
  
• Woody doesn't tell Josh to stand out there, but he also doesn't tell him to not stand out there either. Woody is basically the Sweden of coaches in this regard.
  
• Woody shouldn't be trying to get Bibby to do his dirty work. He should man up and put Smith where he should be, on the blocks.
  

[crimedog]

How is this confirming anything other than Josh being allowed to do whatever he wants? To me it sounds like Woody doesn't want Josh shooting 3's but he's afraid to ask him not to (which goes back to the quote from a couple months back) and then this incident only further illustrates that fear but also illustrates how Woody DOES NOT want Josh shooting 3's. So how are you coming to the conclusion that we ask Josh to be out there unless you're saying that by Woodson not specifically stating that he's not allowed out there is the same as them asking him to be out there.

If Bibby tells Woody to "put him somewhere else" it either means that Woody is either telling Josh to go there or he's not telling him to go anywhere at all. If Woody's telling Josh to stand out there, he's stupid. If Woody doesn't actually HAVE an offense as you're suggesting, then he's not a coach, just a dude standing on the sideline collecting a fat check.

You are interpreting the literalisms of "don't put him there" in a very strange way if you don't think that implies that Woody is putting him there.

[DrReality]

These are the things that I see:

• Smoove shouldn't be anywhere near the 3 pt line.
  
• Woody doesn't tell Josh to stand out there, but he also doesn't tell him to not stand out there either. Woody is basically the Sweden of coaches in this regard.
  
• Woody shouldn't be trying to get Bibby to do his dirty work. He should man up and put Smith where he should be, on the blocks.
  

Agree with your last statement but tend to disagree with what was said before that. I'm not sure that the guys on the team like Woody. Not sure if that is true.

To Bibby's credit, we have run the alley oop more often recently, even though they haven't all worked.

[Admin]

If Bibby tells Woody to "put him somewhere else" it either means that Woody is either telling Josh to go there or he's not telling him to go anywhere at all. If Woody's telling Josh to stand out there, he's stupid. If Woody doesn't actually HAVE an offense as you're suggesting, then he's not a coach, just a dude standing on the sideline collecting a fat check.

You are interpreting the literalisms of "don't put him there" in a very strange way if you don't think that implies that Woody is putting him there.

How is it strange to interpret what Bibby said (along with Woody's quote from earlier in the year) and our knowledge of Woody's system in a way that shows that Woody isn't actually instructing Josh to be in a certain place? I think it's far more likely that he allows Josh to do whatever he wants than it is to assume that he's intentionally placing him at the 3pt line.

[AHF]

I think it's far more likely that he allows Josh to do whatever he wants than it is to assume that he's intentionally placing him at the 3pt line.

Which is more painful?

:sad:

[crimedog]

How is it strange to interpret what Bibby said (along with Woody's quote from earlier in the year) and our knowledge of Woody's system in a way that shows that Woody isn't actually instructing Josh to be in a certain place? I think it's far more likely that he allows Josh to do whatever he wants than it is to assume that he's intentionally placing him at the 3pt line.

Because coaches design plays in the NBA. There is structure. It isn't the playground. If we really want to get into the semantics of what Bibby said, he wouldn't have said to "put him somewhere else" he would have said "don't let him do whatever he wants".

I'm not sure that Woody literally says to Josh that he should stand AT the 3pt line, but at least pulled out of the paint to create the most room for a drive from the perimeter. As someone (D?) noted, we often seem to be running a Pistons set where Josh plays Sheed, Bibby plays Rip, and Joe plays Billups. The fact that Josh is in position to take the 3 doesn't mean he should take it, thats his fault on the issue, the fact that he's so often in position to do it is Woody's.

Are you actually implying that Woody has never told Josh to do anything? That he literally has no offensive set at all? If thats the case we need to fire him immediately because he's not doing what he's supposed to to earn a paycheck. I'm much more comfortable with what the team is paying him if he just has bad offensive sets than if he's so lazy/stupid that he can't make an offensive set at all.

[Joker]

I know the reason he's out there is for spacing and if he cuts, another player can go that spot but JS always wants to take that shot. Just like Bron, they do not have a constant form on their long range shots.

Edited May 5, 2009 by nbasuperstar40

[Joker]

Teams that are incredibly inconsistent is usually either a huge sign of bad coaching, or a very young team who doesn't have much experience together. Yeah we're young, but we've been together a while to the point where we're an above average team. We should not be this inconsistent considering the weapons we have.

The reason Joe is so inconsistent is because all we do is run ISOs. If he's not hitting shots we usually lose. He isn't LeBron/Kobe/Wade where you can get away with an offense like that. I understand we have to run ISO's sometimes, but not to the extent that we do. We will NEVER be a consistent team without an offensive structure.

It's hard to be consistent when one player always either helps or messing up the flow. There is a reason why Ginobili and AK-47 come off the bench. That is the same reason why Smith should as well. He can keep the mins he plays, but him starting is not going to help us in the long run. A starter foremost needs to be consistent. That's mainly what's needed out of a starter, Josh is very talented but not consistent and I doubt he ever will be.

I remember when the Nuggets were starting J.R. Smith, he was sporadic and so was their record. But now that he comes off the bench he is an impact player and Denver might be the best team in the West. It's not by mistake, some guys are starters and some just aren't. You can't tell me Dantaye Jones is better then J.R. Smith but he is consistent and doesn't kill the flow before it even starts.

Edited May 5, 2009 by nbasuperstar40

[High5]

You could write a book about all of Woodson's blunders. Nice job, Bibby.

[IonSen88]

Coach Woodson is a complete joke. Minus the fact that our record has improved every season since we won 13 games in 2004, this clown doesn't have a job.

[Admin]

Because coaches design plays in the NBA. There is structure. It isn't the playground. If we really want to get into the semantics of what Bibby said, he wouldn't have said to "put him somewhere else" he would have said "don't let him do whatever he wants".

I'm not sure that Woody literally says to Josh that he should stand AT the 3pt line, but at least pulled out of the paint to create the most room for a drive from the perimeter. As someone (D?) noted, we often seem to be running a Pistons set where Josh plays Sheed, Bibby plays Rip, and Joe plays Billups. The fact that Josh is in position to take the 3 doesn't mean he should take it, thats his fault on the issue, the fact that he's so often in position to do it is Woody's.

Are you actually implying that Woody has never told Josh to do anything? That he literally has no offensive set at all? If thats the case we need to fire him immediately because he's not doing what he's supposed to to earn a paycheck. I'm much more comfortable with what the team is paying him if he just has bad offensive sets than if he's so lazy/stupid that he can't make an offensive set at all.

On what Bibby said I don't believe that "put him somewhere else" automatically implies that he's put him in a spot on the floor as it could very well mean that he simply needs to be put him somewhere and not let him be wherever he wants to be. I certainly don't like that but would it really shock anyone if Smith is allowed to freelance in such a manner? I think that Woody handles Josh with kids gloves and I think that he allows him to pretty much freelance within our offense other than coming off of picks and what not.

And while I don't know that Woody puts Smith in a specific spot that doesn't mean that he doesn't have specific areas where he wants other players. Smith is the most volatile and immature player on the team and that's why I think he handles him with kids gloves so that Josh feels like he has the freedom he wants and Woody gets the defensive effort that he wants. Woody can expect more from his other players since they're more stable and that's why he has a role for them.

[crimedog]

On what Bibby said I don't believe that "put him somewhere else" automatically implies that he's put him in a spot on the floor as it could very well mean that he simply needs to be put him somewhere and not let him be wherever he wants to be. I certainly don't like that but would it really shock anyone if Smith is allowed to freelance in such a manner? I think that Woody handles Josh with kids gloves and I think that he allows him to pretty much freelance within our offense other than coming off of picks and what not.

And while I don't know that Woody puts Smith in a specific spot that doesn't mean that he doesn't have specific areas where he wants other players. Smith is the most volatile and immature player on the team and that's why I think he handles him with kids gloves so that Josh feels like he has the freedom he wants and Woody gets the defensive effort that he wants. Woody can expect more from his other players since they're more stable and that's why he has a role for them.

Whether or not Smith is the least mature player on the team is something that I'm not qualified to answer as I don't know any of these dudes. I can say that from the looks of it Woody doesn't handle Smith with kid gloves. He's willing to pull Josh or call him out for taking bad shots...

If Woody's offensive system is "Everyone has a role except Josh Smith because I'm too scared of him to coach him" then that too is an indictment.

Edited May 7, 2009 by crimedog