Woody's offensive indictment...

[AtLaS]

I've said it before but it still amazes me that a team with Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby, Joe Johnson and an athletic center like Horford is ranked 24th in the NBA in pace.

They should be one of the fastest-paced team in the NBA.

That's a reflection of coaching because with their personnel, there's no other excuse.

I'm not talking about this game or this series. I was referencing their regular season average of 24th in the league in pace. Bibby may not be Steve Nash but with their roster, he should be able to push the pace if the coach instructed them to do so, which I doubt Woodson does.

as an outside observer, i would recommend hawks fans protest about their coach. i'm not a fan.

atlanta's offense needs so much work its insane. they have no decipherable system. they need a much more fluid offense, and they have the pieces to facilitate it.

LOL Hawks last possession was pathetic. Anyone see that? Why are they driving, leaving thier feet and kicking it out. Only to have that player drive, leave thier feet and attempt to kick it out.

They are retarded on the road.

Just since all the Woodson defenders think we are just hating on him. They are all outside observers. I'm sure I could dig up a lot more quotes if I wanted, but these will do.

Sure, we have to play defense but we have to play offense as well. The most points we've scored on the road the entire playoffs was 81. We were just lucky Miami couldn't hit anything that game. We got destroyed in Boston last year as well.

That's because we are so inconsistent. If we don't make our ISO shots or shots out of ISO's we can't win. This is why we get killed by 40 on the road in the playoffs every game. When the other team goes on a run and the crowd gets into it, we can't silence them with an easy bucket. So, we just continue to jack ISO shots while the other team gains momentum.

Josh Smith has the game to be a MUCH better player, but his coach won't enforce it. We have a DOMINANT PnR PG in Bibby but we don't run it. We have an VERY athletic team and we are 24th in the NBA in pace. We have no offense at all yet we want to walk the ball up the court. We have three starters that are good three point shooters, an allstar, and 2 good slashers and we have a terrible looking half court offense, that just shouldn't be. We just roll over and die on the road with the slightest since of adversity.

Woodson is just a bad pregame motivator also. Every time TNT shows the "Wired" I feel embarrassed, his speeches are just not inspiring at all. I think this is why we're such an average 1st quarter team.

I'm sorry but it's a coaching problem. I don't believe we are as good as the top 3 teams in the east but we are better than our record and should not be losing by 60 on the road every game.

[AtLaS]

Adding to it, we shot almost 60% in the first half and were still losing!! That's because of our offense. When you run ISO's and people just dribble around the entire time, it creates turnovers. PERIOD.

I'll admit the rebounding wasn't great though, and we again couldn't make free throws.

[LOL_Hawks]

Adding to it, we shot almost 60% in the first half and were still losing!! That's because of our offense. When you run ISO's and people just dribble around the entire time, it creates turnovers. PERIOD.

I'll admit the rebounding wasn't great though, and we again couldn't make free throws.

In reference to the bolded part, that's just the fact that the Cavs are just freaky good at home like that. That was the most shocking part of the game for me.

In reference to the entire gist of the thread, I agree. Especially the first quote. With the personnel that we have, the pace that we play at offensively is atrocious.

[AtLaS]

In reference to the bolded part, that's just the fact that the Cavs are just freaky good at home like that.

I realize the Cavs are a great defensive teams and will force turnovers, but this has been a problem for us all season. This is nothing new. Flip and JJ always turn it over because they try to go 1 on 5 and dribble forever. Smith does it too. It's just bad coaching because we have no system to prevent that from happening.

We run a pickup game offense. In our last 9 road playoff games the most points we have scored is 82 or so. That is a TRAVESTY considering the players we have.

[PureGreatness]

again smith 13 attempts in first half, 2 in the 2nd

[AtLaS]

again smith 13 attempts in first half, 2 in the 2nd

That's ridiculous.

How anyone can defend Woodson is incredible. It might be possible to defend him as not being a bottom 5 bad coach in the NBA, but he should just be gone, period.

The sad thing is that he'll probably get an extension from these Spirit clowns. They'll just be happy the record improved without having any knowledge of the ghastly, loathsome faults in his offense.

[Admin]

That's ridiculous.

How anyone can defend Woodson is incredible. It might be possible to defend him as not being a bottom 5 bad coach in the NBA, but he should just be gone, period.

The sad thing is that he'll probably get an extension from these Spirit clowns. They'll just be happy the record improved without having any knowledge of the ghastly, loathsome faults in his offense.

Just so I'm clear on this, is Woody responsible for Smith's 13 shots in the first half or his 2 shots in the 2nd half?

[AtLaS]

Just so I'm clear on this, is Woody responsible for Smith's 13 shots in the first half or his 2 shots in the 2nd half?

The point of this thread is not about Smith shooting twice in the 2nd half. There are much bigger issues at hand.

No, it's not his fault IMO.

[PureGreatness]

Just so I'm clear on this, is Woody responsible for Smith's 13 shots in the first half or his 2 shots in the 2nd half?

as a coach if some one on your team has 13 attempts, made 8 and has 17 point at the half then you have to keep feeding him till he gets flat out cold FORCE IT TO HIM SOME HOW. i bet if joe took 15 shots at half, made 3 woodson would have tried to find a way to get him 15 more shots in the 2nd.

its not just woodson, also the team has to realise who is producing on the court, not try to get your own shots.

Also, evans is so damn irrelevant its not funny. his defense is very overrated, marvin is doing much, al was fumbling passes out the azz and bibby was turning the ball over in the 2nd and 3rd quarter.

Edited May 6, 2009 by hoodstar

[tbhawksfan]

There shouldn't even be a debate. They should've let BK fire Woodson and bring Andersen over. Sund's let me have a year to learn the Hawks is the biggest joke of the year.

I hate that he took that approach, theat the ASG did't listen to BK.

Don't you think that our team would have done more with a "better" coach and Andersen helping with the big rotation?

[jhay610]

There shouldn't even be a debate. They should've let BK fire Woodson and bring Andersen over. Sund's let me have a year to learn the Hawks is the biggest joke of the year.

I hate that he took that approach, theat the ASG did't listen to BK.

Woody was BK's hire. Let's not make him out to be a saint.

Edited May 6, 2009 by jhay610

[Diesel]

In reference to the bolded part, that's just the fact that the Cavs are just freaky good at home like that. That was the most shocking part of the game for me.

In reference to the entire gist of the thread, I agree. Especially the first quote. With the personnel that we have, the pace that we play at offensively is atrocious.

We were down because of our good friends turnovers and missed free throws. I think we did ok on the boards. I think when Josh Smith is around the basket, he is reaching his potential.

[AtLaS]

We were down because of our good friends turnovers and missed free throws.

That is because of the offense. When players constantly have to pound the ball for the entire shot clock trying to create their own shots, turnovers will happen a lot more often. Especially against a good defensive team. We only shot 6 free throws in the first half.

[Diesel]

That is because of the offense. When players constantly have to pound the ball for the entire shot clock trying to create their own shots, turnovers will happen a lot more often. Especially against a good defensive team. We only shot 6 free throws in the first half.

Of those 6, we only hit 2.

[Admin]

The point of this thread is not about Smith shooting twice in the 2nd half. There are much bigger issues at hand.

No, it's not his fault IMO.

There are absolutely much bigger issue at hand, I just hate hearing how it's somehow Woody's fault in a situation like this. We run a selfish offensive system and we have some selfish offensive players and things like this are bound to happen far too often but it's not simply Woody's fault, the players have to get some blame for not getting the ball to Josh more and Josh has to get some blame for not putting himself in a position to score like he was doing in the first half. It didn't look like to me that Cleveland drastically changed their defense in the 2nd half and Woody damn sure didn't change his offense so the players deserve the lions share of the blame for the difference between the first and second halves.

[AHF]

Coach bears responsibility for the system, the preparation before the game and adjustments made during the game.

The players bear responsibility for their execution during the game.

Plenty of blame to spread around last night.

[AtLaS]

There are absolutely much bigger issue at hand, I just hate hearing how it's somehow Woody's fault in a situation like this. We run a selfish offensive system and we have some selfish offensive players and things like this are bound to happen far too often but it's not simply Woody's fault, the players have to get some blame for not getting the ball to Josh more and Josh has to get some blame for not putting himself in a position to score like he was doing in the first half. It didn't look like to me that Cleveland drastically changed their defense in the 2nd half and Woody damn sure didn't change his offense so the players deserve the lions share of the blame for the difference between the first and second halves.

We have ran ISO's for 5 years. This is not about one game. We have never shown any ability or even an attempt to run a structured half court offense.

At some point it's the coaches fault.

[AtLaS]

Coach bears responsibility for the system, the preparation before the game and adjustments made during the game.

The players bear responsibility for their execution during the game.

Plenty of blame to spread around last night.

Again, this isn't about one game. When a team has ran a pickup game offense for 5 years, it's the coaches fault. Perhaps last night some of the blame should be put on the players, but that's not the point of this thread.

[Admin]

We have ran ISO's for 5 years. This is not about one game. We have never shown any ability or even an attempt to run a structured half court offense.

At some point it's the coaches fault.

Some of it is certainly the coaches fault but the problem here is that as usual Woody is being given all of the fault. I could understand if our players played the same way all of the time but they are so damned inconsistent that the coach cannot get the full blame. Do you think Woody is coaching differently on the road than at home? His "system" has shown that we can be a dominant home team and I'm certain that it's the same system on the road but compounding the issues with the poor offensive scheme is the FACT that we have some dumb players who far too often lose focus and play out of control. Yes some of that can be attributed to the ISO offense but some of that also has to be attributed to selfish play and stupid mistakes.

As AHF said there is plenty of blame to go around ... and that's not just true of last nights game, it's true of every game for the Hawks.

[coachx]

That is because of the offense. When players constantly have to pound the ball for the entire shot clock trying to create their own shots, turnovers will happen a lot more often. Especially against a good defensive team. We only shot 6 free throws in the first half.

Marvin was the guy who would get agressive and get to the line when the offense bogged down. He can't really do that right now or he will just fall on that bad wrist.

The offense really misses Marvin's versitility. He was that scorer who would score inside and out....and the guy who lead the team in FT attempts. Without him our offense is no longer dynamic and is very predictable.

Edited May 6, 2009 by coachx