How are Javi & JJ not All-Stars and McCann not a starter

[APE]

S**** disgraceful

[TroyMcClure]

S**** disgraceful

It is what it is. Our organization sucks. Nothing to be proud of anymore. They are becoming almost Hawk-like in their stupidity. What's disgraceful is still paying McDowell and Leo has wanted a job for a few years now. Not to mention the fact that Jimmy Williams apparantly isn't good enough to sit on Bobby's bench anymore. Neither is Pat Corrales. Those thre guys had a helluva lot to do with why we were what we were. They've not been given their due respect... by the fans or the organization. I've had it with the Braves. The Glavine thing was just disgusting, and it gives credence to what Smoltz was saying. They were always cold and calculated. But I used to respect the calculation. Now, they are just stupid, time and again. Hard to like what you can't respect.

Sorry that wasn't exactly what you were getting at, but believe me, what I just said has a lot to do with us not having All-Stars anymore.

Edited July 6, 2009 by TroyMcClure

[macdaddy]

I disagree. For all the heat Wren has taken (and some of it he deserved), he has put together a solid rotation. When your number 2 and 3 starters are all star quality that says something. We are weak at a lot of positions though.

I'm tired of Glavine and Smoltz's tired sob stories. I didn't see them crying foul when Maddux wasn't offered a contract because they knew the Braves couldn't afford to pay him and them as they got older. Did Maddux complain? No because he's a true class act. Hell they didn't even come to Leo's defense when he left.

The Braves made the right decision with Smoltz and Glavine.

If you really want to be a Brave your whole career it's possible. Talk to Chipper. He walks the walk.

[KB21]

I disagree. For all the heat Wren has taken (and some of it he deserved), he has put together a solid rotation. When your number 2 and 3 starters are all star quality that says something. We are weak at a lot of positions though.

I'm tired of Glavine and Smoltz's tired sob stories. I didn't see them crying foul when Maddux wasn't offered a contract because they knew the Braves couldn't afford to pay him and them as they got older. Did Maddux complain? No because he's a true class act. Hell they didn't even come to Leo's defense when he left.

The Braves made the right decision with Smoltz and Glavine.

If you really want to be a Brave your whole career it's possible. Talk to Chipper. He walks the walk.

Tommy Hanson's performance shows that Frank Wren made the right decision in releasing Tom Glavine to give Hanson his chance. You could make a case that Hanson is already the Braves best pitcher.

[Bahamut]

Tommy Hanson's performance shows that Frank Wren made the right decision in releasing Tom Glavine to give Hanson his chance. You could make a case that Hanson is already the Braves best pitcher.

Fans vote for their favorite players, and the teams with larger fan bases have more fans voting for their favorite players on their moms' computers in their moms' basements :computer8:

[TroyMcClure]

Tommy Hanson's performance shows that Frank Wren made the right decision in releasing Tom Glavine to give Hanson his chance. You could make a case that Hanson is already the Braves best pitcher.

You are way smarter than that KB. Bringing Glavine back should have nothing to do with Hanson. And it's not about the decision. It's about the process. We are a hack organization now. You don't make a man who pitched a 1 hitter with a broken rib for our only title, pitch his last game in a Rome Braves Uniform. Just classless. 11 straight scoreless innings. He deserved a game. If you don't think that, you weren't a Braves fan the last 20 years. I don't like being lied to. It was about the money. They lost a lot more than that in gate revenue by making the move the way they did, on top of everything else. It's also obvious that no one respects coaching in this thread.

[TroyMcClure]

[

If you really want to be a Brave your whole career it's possible. Talk to Chipper. He walks the walk.

Chipper doesn't walk the walk. He's a walking groin pull. I'm more than a little tired of his " I won't play unless I feel good" attitude. I guarantee he's never too hurt to hunt. Check out his gay website. Buckcommander.com. How many Dominicans you see rushing to the airport on off days to go hunting?

You really think they would not trade Chipper. I personally think he will want to leave in a few years if things continue like this. By the way, if you know Chipper, which you obviously don't, you'd know he has publicly stated opinions that are very similar to my own regarding the Smoltz and Glavine issue. Even going so far as to question whether he was next.

Also, don't compare Boras wanting 18 million for Maddux to play for us, but taking half of that from anyone else in the league, to paying tom Glavine under 2 million in a farewell, ticket selling year. Apples and oranges.

[KB21]

You are way smarter than that KB. Bringing Glavine back should have nothing to do with Hanson. And it's not about the decision. It's about the process. We are a hack organization now. You don't make a man who pitched a 1 hitter with a broken rib for our only title, pitch his last game in a Rome Braves Uniform. Just classless. 11 straight scoreless innings. He deserved a game. If you don't think that, you weren't a Braves fan the last 20 years. I don't like being lied to. It was about the money. They lost a lot more than that in gate revenue by making the move the way they did, on top of everything else. It's also obvious that no one respects coaching in this thread.

How do you figure that?

If Tom Glavine gets promoted to the 5th starter spot on the ML club, then Tommy Hanson stays at Gwinnett. What this came down to in the end was Tom Glavine vs Tommy Hanson, and Tommy Hanson was obviously the better choice. Tom Glavine was being clocked in the low 80s by the Braves scouts during his rehab starts, and he no longer has the pinpoint control that made him the greatest left handed pitcher of the last 25 years. Did money play a role in this? I have no doubts that it did, but don't kid yourself into thinking that money was the only reason this was done. Personally, I think the Braves made a snap decision when they resigned him. After John Smoltz signed with Boston, the Braves felt pressure to keep Glavine in the fold even though I do not believe they wanted to sign him. I believe in both cases the Braves were hoping that Smoltz and Glavine would just retire and make the decision easy for them. Smoltz hasn't looked so hot in his two starts for the Red Sox at this point. His fastball isn't the same, though his slider is still pretty damn good.

My favorite player in any sport was Dale Murphy. He was the player I patterned my game after when I played baseball growing up, and when he was traded to Philaelphia, it broke my heart. In hindsight, it was obvious that the Braves made the right decision. Dale didn't do much at all after being traded, and the guy that took his spot in right field was a young guy named Dave Justice. Sure, the Tom Glavine issue looks bad on the surface, and I wish they had not signed him to begin with if this was what was going to happen. However, it still came down to a Tom Glavine vs Tommy Hanson issue, and I'm glad they have brought Hanson up. The guy is a stud and is already one of the best young pitchers in baseball.

[TroyMcClure]

Did money play a role in this? I have no doubts that it did, but don't kid yourself into thinking that money was the only reason this was done. Personally, I think the Braves made a snap decision when they resigned him. After John Smoltz signed with Boston, the Braves felt pressure to keep Glavine in the fold even though I do not believe they wanted to sign him. I believe in both cases the Braves were hoping that Smoltz and Glavine would just retire and make the decision easy for them.

How can you believe that and not care about the Braves incompetence in their handling of these situations?

Again, it's about the process. They are not pr smart, and their scouts aren't that effing good anymore. They continually miss the mark on both counts. Do you really want to argue that. This last case with Glavine is disrespectful on a level you just don't get. That loses fans like me. This isn't a one time event. It's a pattern of incompetence. Since MLB has restraints on Liberty Media and there is no hands on ownership, JS and Wren, and even Bobby to a large degree, have just lost any sense of pressure. That makes losers of most, and we have fit that bill for 3 years running now. Expect a 4th. I've got a life. What exactly am I supposed to be rooting for now?

[AHF]

The rumors with Glavine is that he had zero speed on his pitches despite OK numbers in the minors and simply didn't recover enough to be able to pitch in the majors. If that is the case, then the only problem with the process was that there wasn't enough communication with Glavine. Based on the fact that no one else in the entire league was interested in him and Glavine didn't say he was retiring, that may be the case. If so, he shouldn't have been promoted regardless of whether Hanson was ready or not.

[DrReality]

The way they have been playing they have not earned a lot of respect this year.

[APE]

The way they have been playing they have not earned a lot of respect this year.

Sarcasm?

[TroyMcClure]

The rumors with Glavine is that he had zero speed on his pitches despite OK numbers in the minors and simply didn't recover enough to be able to pitch in the majors. If that is the case, then the only problem with the process was that there wasn't enough communication with Glavine. Based on the fact that no one else in the entire league was interested in him and Glavine didn't say he was retiring, that may be the case. If so, he shouldn't have been promoted regardless of whether Hanson was ready or not.

I'm glad you phrased it that way, AHF. Rumor is the word. Velocity was never his game. I'm sorry, but I'll take the word of a 300 game winner and the best lefty of my lifetime over the Atlanta braves current scouts. Also, he would have been the smartest man on the bench. But that would undermine our gem of a pitching "coach".

Oh, by the way, Andruw dropped 3 bombs last night. 3! He hit one the night before last. That's like 14 in limited time. How many bombs does Schaeffer have? We could have had him back for virtually nothing. Just another example of how the Braves "scouts" aren't who or what they used to be. And in my opinion, that invalidates virtually every argument the Braves have in this case. That's excluding the pr disaster, which is actually worse for them long term than these short term bad player moves.

Edited July 9, 2009 by TroyMcClure

[dms269]

I'm glad you phrased it that way, AHF. Rumor is the word. Velocity was never his game. I'm sorry, but I'll take the word of a 300 game winner and the best lefty of my lifetime over the Atlanta braves current scouts. Also, he would have been the smartest man on the bench. But that would undermine our gem of a pitching "coach".

Oh, by the way, Andruw dropped 3 bombs last night. 3! He hit one the night before last. That's like 14 in limited time. How many bombs does Schaeffer have? We could have had him back for virtually nothing. Just another example of how the Braves "scouts" aren't who or what they used to be. And in my opinion, that invalidates virtually every argument the Braves have in this case. That's excluding the pr disaster, which is actually worse for them long term than these short term bad player moves.

Andruw is still batting .250 with 40 k's as well. He isn't as fast as he once was and is hitting in a hitters park.

Atlanta has always been a city where the fans only come out if you win. How many fans will legitimately buy a ticket on a glavine farewell tour just to watch the Braves get blown out?

[TroyMcClure]

Andruw is still batting .250 with 40 k's as well. He isn't as fast as he once was and is hitting in a hitters park.

Atlanta has always been a city where the fans only come out if you win. How many fans will legitimately buy a ticket on a glavine farewell tour just to watch the Braves get blown out?

Considering the game has yet to be played when you buy a ticket... quite a few. What if he won, ever think of that? It's not like he hasn't done it 300 times.

[AHF]

Personally, I don't know why Glavine isn't playing somewhere else right now. It isn't like there aren't teams desparate for a quality #5 starter. That said, it was rumor and maybe he is just depressed after being mistreated by the Braves. I don't know but the fact that he is essentially retiring while claiming he wants to play in the future makes me wonder if the Braves' scouts weren't right.

[coachx]

Personally, I don't know why Glavine isn't playing somewhere else right now. It isn't like there aren't teams desparate for a quality #5 starter. That said, it was rumor and maybe he is just depressed after being mistreated by the Braves. I don't know but the fact that he is essentially retiring while claiming he wants to play in the future makes me wonder if the Braves' scouts weren't right.

Tom does not want to play for any one else. If he did the Phillies and other contenders would be lining up for him.

I thought they made the right move.

Had the Braves left Hanson in the minors and brought up Glavine instead, would the same people still be complaining ? Would Glavine be 4 W - O L, with a 2.25 ERA like Hanson has done in his first 6 starts ever ? Medlen was pitching better then Tommy too. There were at least 2 pitchers on the Gwinnett team pitching better then Glavine.

The only guy they could have sent down to the minors was Kawakami and they would have cost any other Japaneese FA. You don't bring a guy over from Japan to send him to the minors. That ruin the Braves rep over there.

The Braves are bigger then Tom Glavine. He made $ 8 mill to sit on the bench last year.

Edited July 9, 2009 by coachx

[AHF]

Tom does not want to play for any one else. If he did the Phillies and other contenders would be lining up for him.

Personally, I don't know if I buy that. The guy voluntarily left Atlanta, played somewhere else for 5 of the last 6 years, and says he isn't retiring even though he knows he will never play for the Braves again.

Hey, I could be wrong and he is just set on being a Brave or bust but that sounds fishy to me. Why not just retire at that point?