What is the status with Marvin?

[Deeman]

Yeah the ONE guy on our roster even remotely capable of guarding Pierce, LBJ, etc. is the least important.

Man please nobody in this league can guard LBJ let alone Marvin Williams. Who would you say is the least important starter then?

[buckeye242424]

Why didn't Marvin's scoring increase when Josh was out? Josh was the second leading scorer.

The point I'm making is that Marvin is NOT having an impact where it matters... W's and L's. The teams record is better without him. The hawks need either a big productive PF or a productive center WAY more than they need Marvin.

What's so hard to understand that Marvin doesn't help this team win? The numbers support that he doesn't.

It doesn't matter what Marvin has the potential to do if he doesn't do it. Rasheed Wallace should have been one of the best PF's of all time. Yet, he never was even a 20PPG scorer. It's about what you do and not what you can do IF IF IF IF.

If Marvin's production would have increased while Josh was out last year I might be able to believe... But it really didn't make a big difference.

:offtopic2: I know. But..

Bad Example. Rasheed Wallace is an unselfish player. He could have averaged 20 a game if he wanted, but despite his anger issues, he's a team first guy.

[Wurider05]

Why didn't Marvin's scoring increase when Josh was out? Josh was the second leading scorer.

The point I'm making is that Marvin is NOT having an impact where it matters... W's and L's. The teams record is better without him. The hawks need either a big productive PF or a productive center WAY more than they need Marvin.

What's so hard to understand that Marvin doesn't help this team win? The numbers support that he doesn't.

It doesn't matter what Marvin has the potential to do if he doesn't do it. Rasheed Wallace should have been one of the best PF's of all time. Yet, he never was even a 20PPG scorer. It's about what you do and not what you can do IF IF IF IF.

If Marvin's production would have increased while Josh was out last year I might be able to believe... But it really didn't make a big difference.

That i not true because Flip played more minutes and he probably took more shots a game than Josh Smith. Marv just stands out on the perimeter while they do iso JJ, iso bibby, or the flip show. He has improved his game a lot. Remember when he was scared to drive or shoot the ball. remember when he was clumsy and could never draw a foul. Man he has improved. I would say that from his rookie year to now he has improved his game more than Josh or Horford has. You can actually see the change in his game. Honestly can you tell me that you can see Josh's improvement? I am not trying to turn this into a Josh vs. Marvin thread but Marvin has improved in every aspect. He rarely does something stupid. You guys are a joke talking about we don't need him.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Wurider05

[Admin]

Man please nobody in this league can guard LBJ let alone Marvin Williams. Who would you say is the least important starter then?

Did I say he could guard LBJ? Go back and read. I said REMOTELY CAPABLE of guarding. Don't you think that if someone on the team could guard him better that they would get that assignment?

NONE of them. They are all valuable and all play a role. If I had the option of upgrading each position he'd be 2nd to last that I'd upgrade after 1. Bibby, 2. Horford, and 3. Smith and he'd be 4th because he does the 2nd best job of playing the role that he's asked to play on the team behind Joe Johnson.

[Plainview1981]

:offtopic2: I know. But..

Bad Example. Rasheed Wallace is an unselfish player. He could have averaged 20 a game if he wanted, but despite his anger issues, he's a team first guy.

People keep saying if Marvin took this amount of shots... Well, if Sheed had took more shots or would have been more aggressive he could have been a great player. If a guy doesn't have the mindset to be an explosive player he will not be one. I'm not saying Marvin has the potential that Sheed did. I'm using an example that sometimes a player just doesn't the mindset to be a big time scorer. I believe that Marvin doesn't have that mindset. He might have a few days here and there like Marvin does. But almost all the time he is a 10-14PPG scorer. Even when the teams second leading scorer was out, Marvin still stayed in that range.

[exodus]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=61

The Hawks were 0-3 without Bibby this year losing to the Clippers, Grizzlies and Nuggets.

The Hawks were 2-1 without Joe... But those wins were against Minnesota and Charlotte. Big Whoop.

13-7 without Marvin... And those L's came against:

Cleveland

Spurs

Celtics

76ers

Celtics

Orlando

Memphis

Most of those games the Hawks likely lose anyway.

If you're going to attempt to be a smart @ss, have a clue as to what you're talking about.

Marvin is a disposable player. He is an average scorer, not impressive rebounder, and he gives you nothing with shot blocking and steals.

Since i know you didn't actually watch any of these games allow me to clue you in.

The Spurs were missing Duncan and Manu hardly played, going 1-7. The Hawks nearly beat a healthy Spurs team on the road earlier in the season when Marvin was playing.

The Celtics were missing Garnett and his backup. The Hawks had a 1 pt lead against a healthy Boston in Boston when Marvin was playing.

Against the Sixers Thad Young (who was averaging 20 ppg that month) got hurt in the first quarter and missed the rest of the game.

Orlando was missing Petrius and Nelson.

[buckeye242424]

People keep saying if Marvin took this amount of shots... Well, if Sheed had took more shots or would have been more aggressive he could have been a great player. If a guy doesn't have the mindset to be an explosive player he will not be one. I'm not saying Marvin has the potential that Sheed did. I'm using an example that sometimes a player just doesn't the mindset to be a big time scorer. I believe that Marvin doesn't have that mindset.He might have a few days here and there like Marvin does. But almost all the time he is a 10-14PPG scorer. Even when the teams second leading scorer was out, Marvin still stayed in that range.

It's hard to become a big time scorer when you're not the 1,2 or even 3 option on most nights. Add to the fact that our offense is run through one guy, and one guy alone compunds the issue.

[JackB1]

That i not true because Flip played more minutes and he probably took more shots a game than Josh Smith. Marv just stands out on the perimeter while they do iso JJ, iso bibby, or the flip show. He has improved his game a lot. Remember when he was scared to drive or shoot the ball. remember when he was clumsy and could never draw a foul. Man he has improved. I would say that from his rookie year to now he has improved his game more than Josh or Horford has. You can actually see the change in his game. Honestly can you tell me that you can see Josh's improvement? I am not trying to turn this into a Josh vs. Marvin thread but Marvin has improved in every aspect. He rarely does something stupid. You guys are a joke talking about we don't need him.

I agree that Marvin has improved every yeay (unlike Smoove) and can be a +20 pt a game scorer very soon. His % is always high and last year he started shooting the 3 at a great %. If only Woodson would design more plays for him, he is money with that open jumper off a screen. If Marvin just WANTED the ball more, I would be happy. IMO Marvin may have a higher ceiling than Smoove. He can hit shots from anywhere on the court and is a great defender and rebounder. He has a complete game.

[Plainview1981]

The Spurs were missing Duncan and Manu hardly played, going 1-7. The Hawks nearly beat a healthy Spurs team on the road earlier in the season when Marvin was playing.

Don't you remember that Tony Parker owned the whole team that night? Do you actually remember? You think Hunchback would have been able to do anything with Tony?

The Celtics were missing Garnett and his backup. The Hawks had a 1 pt lead against a healthy Boston in Boston when Marvin was playing.

The Hawks lost 3 out of those 4 periods. They got pushed around by 4 of the 5 Boston starters in that game. KG was out, but Big Baby had a 20 point game and Mikki Moore came off the bench for 9 points and 6 rebounds on 4-5 shooting. I sure as f*ck wasn't thinking that the Hawks would have won that game if Marvin had played

That first week of the season the Hawks played above their heads.

Orlando was missing Petrius and Nelson.

They were missing Petrius when they beat the Hawks in back to back games. Yeah, Nelson might have been out that last game, but Rafer picked up ok... He had 15 points 2 rebounds and assists in that last game on 7-10 shooting. Besides, Marvin played mediocre against Orlando this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290109019

Good ole Marvin had 9 points on 4-10 shooting while the Hawks were getting their teeth kicked in.

[terrellgroup]

Marvin improved his game tremendously with in a year, Josh hasn't, Marvin makes better decisions then Josh, Marvin percentage in shooting is better than Josh. The issue is Marvin is not as aggressive as some of the others, so he gets overlooked. With more confidents Marvin could be the third maybe 2 leading scorer.

[Plainview1981]

That i not true because Flip played more minutes and he probably took more shots a game than Josh Smith. Marv just stands out on the perimeter while they do iso JJ, iso bibby, or the flip show. He has improved his game a lot. Remember when he was scared to drive or shoot the ball. remember when he was clumsy and could never draw a foul. Man he has improved. I would say that from his rookie year to now he has improved his game more than Josh or Horford has. You can actually see the change in his game. Honestly can you tell me that you can see Josh's improvement? I am not trying to turn this into a Josh vs. Marvin thread but Marvin has improved in every aspect. He rarely does something stupid. You guys are a joke talking about we don't need him.

Marvin stands around often being unaggressive. That's part of the point.

The hawks had a better record without him than with. The joke looks to be on you.

[Plainview1981]

It's hard to become a big time scorer when you're not the 1,2 or even 3 option on most nights. Add to the fact that our offense is run through one guy, and one guy alone compunds the issue.

When the second leading scorer was out, Marvin's production didn't increase. If it had, I might be able to buy what your saying. The evidence just doesn't support that Marvin will be an impact scorer on a normal basis.

[exodus]

So if a team is missing it's best player(s) it makes no difference? LOL sure

[exodus]

When the second leading scorer was out, Marvin's production didn't increase. If it had, I might be able to buy what your saying. The evidence just doesn't support that Marvin will be an impact scorer on a normal basis.

What did Marvin do with JJ was out? What did he do when Bibby and Smith were both out?

[Plainview1981]

Marvin improved his game tremendously with in a year, Josh hasn't, Marvin makes better decisions then Josh, Marvin percentage in shooting is better than Josh. The issue is Marvin is not as aggressive as some of the others, so he gets overlooked. With more confidents Marvin could be the third maybe 2 leading scorer.

Nobody said Josh was untradable.

What matters is production. Marvin isn't producing more now than he was before. His 3pt shooting really only lasted a few months. He shot the 3 ball poorly the second half of the season.

[ccarver]

I see why people call him clumsy, he can't finish, doesn't get to the line enough, and every other negative we can throw at him. Last year Marvin was a 14 ppg player. That was a 22 and 23 year old player still learning the game. I do not want to sign the Marvin of last year. I do, however, absolutly without a shadow of a doubt, want to sign the Marvin of the next five years. Without looking at the "numbers", only by watching every game, how can you not see his potential. He is a team player, a positive impact on the court, always clapping, and trying to keep everyones spirits high when things are not looking so good. He can shoot, defend, rebound. All he needs is the chance to put a game on his shoulders, and be the man. As he gets better, 17 pgg this year, 19 ppg next year, followed by three years of 21+, the leage better watch out. He will be a top sf in the NBA.

[exodus]

I see why people call him clumsy, he can't finish, doesn't get to the line enough, and every other negative we can throw at him.

Did you even watch the games? If so your perception is pretty far off since Marvin got to the line more often per shot attempt than anyone on the team and shot 61% on his shots inside, same as JJ and only 4% worse than Smith.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL10.HTM

[Plainview1981]

What did Marvin do with JJ was out? What did he do when Bibby and Smith were both out?

He got lots of FT attempts and shot the ball mediocre against Minnesota and Charlotte.

Bibby was out against Denver and the entire lineup shot 50%.

When Smith was out Marvin averaged 14.2PPG. A whole .3 more than his season average. A good game every now and then doesn't mean somebody is willing to bring it every night. The number of games Joe missed was few. Same for Mike. But Josh missed most of November and Marvin did his normal over that 12 game span. He had a couple of 22 point games mixed in with mostly 12-14 point outings.

Marvin had a good game against Denver... But the entire starting lineup looked like the all star starting 5 that night almost. Nobody said Marvin can't have a big game every once and a while.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[buckeye242424]

I see why people call him clumsy, he can't finish, doesn't get to the line enough, and every other negative we can throw at him. Last year Marvin was a 14 ppg player. That was a 22 and 23 year old player still learning the game. I do not want to sign the Marvin of last year. I do, however, absolutly without a shadow of a doubt, want to sign the Marvin of the next five years. Without looking at the "numbers", only by watching every game, how can you not see his potential. He is a team player, a positive impact on the court, always clapping, and trying to keep everyones spirits high when things are not looking so good. He can shoot, defend, rebound. All he needs is the chance to put a game on his shoulders, and be the man. As he gets better, 17 pgg this year, 19 ppg next year, followed by three years of 21+, the leage better watch out. He will be a top sf in the NBA.

I'm not sure what games you've been watching, but one thing Marv does better than anyone on the Hawks is get to the FT line.

[exodus]

He got lots of FT attempts and shot the ball mediocre against Minnesota and Charlotte.

Bibby was out against Denver and the entire lineup shot 50%.

When Smith was out Marvin averaged 14.2PPG. A whole .3 more than his season average. A good game every now and then doesn't mean somebody is willing to bring it every night. The number of games Joe missed was few. Same for Mike. But Josh missed most of November and Marvin did his normal over that 12 game span. He had a couple of 22 point games mixed in with mostly 12-14 point outings.

Marvin dropped 31 in Denver, one of the toughest places to play in the NBA. Too bad you missed it.

He also was the first guy since Steve Smith to get to the line 20 times in a game. Funny how a guy who is so unaggressive was able to manage that.