Kudos to Billy Knight and Rick Sund

[sillent]

I had a recent post stating I see our team being a dynasty in the near future and not many teams in the league(currently) can boast team preparation 5 - 10 years down the road from now.

I must give BK his credit for foresight and Sund credit for his hindsight actions. I for one am happy we are not New Orleans right now (good maybe great but can only get so far). Our team at best would have been Paul, Joe, Josh Childress, Josh Smith and filler. We do have the Spirit as owners so our pay roll would not be able to afford to much more star power. We would be great but would be stagnant as far as getting pieces we need to get us over the top. So again I’ll say I will take Marvin, Horford and Teague over Paul.

Once your team has reached it’s ceiling guess what they do? They rebuild and I for one am happy to say that with 3 allstar capable 23 year old's and a diamond in the ruff rookie we should not have to worry about another rebuilding process for awhile. Who would’ve thought 5 years ago that we would get marquee names like Bibby , Jamal Crawford and Joe Smith as complimentary players. We definitely would not have been able to add these type of players that easily if we had Paul and Joe sucking up the payroll. I am not saying Bibby and the bunch are superstars but their was a time where nobody wanted to come here and they played like it. We either had good players that were allstars at best like Shareef the Joe of now (unless he decides to change that trend and be Elite). We've had players like Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Glen Robinson and Antoine Walker. Their play for us stated that they came here to make a bigger name for themselves and move on or end their careers. None of these players played as if they had a pride or passion for Atlanta to win consistently.

I'm happy that our GM's have made a culture change. BK brought in undeniable talent who either had a strong passion for the game(Josh Smith,Salim,Mario West) or knew how to win and came from a good system(Childress, Marvin, Sheldon, Horford, Law). Sund is continuing the trend with bringing in players that have a strong passion for the game and winning(Flip, Crawford, Teague). He also understands the need for utility players that know how to play their role and get the job done (Evans, Joe Smith, Collins)BK already had Zaza.

BK may even get his wish (6’9 athletic line up with big guard/Crawford) in Rudy Gay if Joe does not come back. Doesn't look like such a bad wish now of days does it?

[BusBoyIsBack]

Dynasty? I don't know about that but this is definitely a team that can win 50+ games for the next half a dozen + years.

[NineOhTheRino]

BK was one of the best GMs in Atlanta sports history. Would love to see him inducted into the Atlanta Sports Hall of Fame

cosign?

Sund also doing well.

Edited November 5, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[exodus]

I had a recent post stating I see our team being a dynasty in the near future

I guess your health plan doesn't have vision benefits. A team with JJ as it's best player isn't going to be a dynasty.

BK drafted Childress (not in the NBA) with the 6th pick. He also drafted Shelden (soon to be out of the NBA) with the 5th pick ahead of Roy (two time All-Star) and Foye (16 ppg last year). He drafted Marvin ahead of two franchise pgs.

There is a reason BK isn't in the NBA any more.

[Sasquatch]

BK was one of the best GMs in Atlanta sports history. Would love to see him inducted into the Atlanta Sports Hall of Fame

cosign?

Sund also doing well.

Cosign.

I have always been a big Billy Knight fan. Love to see him get credit.

I have become a huge Sund fan. Both as a GM and a person.

In his own way, he has made it clear he was not going to be part of any campaign to discredit. You can not honor a GM more than by keeping and resigning players that he brought in.

He has demonstrated great personal confidence in that regard.

That said the additions he has made and the manner in which he has done it has been nothing short of superlative.

Sund has been fantastic.

[Sasquatch]

I guess your health plan doesn't have vision benefits. A team with JJ as it's best player isn't going to be a dynasty.

BK drafted Childress (not in the NBA) with the 6th pick. He also drafted Shelden (soon to be out of the NBA) with the 5th pick ahead of Roy (two time All-Star) and Foye (16 ppg last year). He drafted Marvin ahead of two franchise pgs.

There is a reason BK isn't in the NBA any more.

Fortunately for Hawk land.

BK did not draft players for their personal accolades. He drafted players to build a TEAM.

What is the marvelous CP3's team doing? HA

How about Foye's? Yeah right.

I like Roy. I still like BK.

Childress... good player.

BK always said the same thing when it came to draft picks...

"We are gonna get a good player"

He never aimed for that lights out pick. He wanted picks that were low risk and multi-talented.

It is paying off.

[TheTruth]

Dynasty? I don't know about that but this is definitely a team that can win 50+ games for the next half a dozen + years.

Gotta agree here. We don't 1) have a superstar 2) play consistent enough defense 3) Have much of an inside presence and 4) Don't rebound well enough and 5) Don't have a consistent post scorer

Improve those things and THEN come back to me and we can talk about a possible dynasty (getting a better coach would help too).

However, can we be a team that perennially wins 45+ games and goes to the playoffs? I think so. However, those were some major drafting blunders BK had. Inexcusable really. Maybe now with more talent can we overcome such egregious errors made by BK; maybe Sund can be the one to help usher in a new era of drafting success and FA signings that we just have not had in a long time.

[gsuteke]

Did all the years of losing condition some of us as Hawks fans, keeping us from moving forward?

Why are we still stuck on the past?

[sillent]

I guess your health plan doesn't have vision benefits. A team with JJ as it's best player isn't going to be a dynasty.

If you read the end of my post I said if JJ leaves Rudy Gay will be a welcomed addition with more upside (Of course not in those exact words). Even if JJ stays he will obviously will no longer be the best player on our team during this time period.

BK drafted Childress (not in the NBA) with the 6th pick. He also drafted Shelden (soon to be out of the NBA) with the 5th pick ahead of Roy (two time All-Star) and Foye (16 ppg last year). He drafted Marvin ahead of two franchise pgs.

Again I have to state facts in terms to help stubborn minds get it. He drafted Childress over Iggy/Deng, Marvin over 2 great pgs, Sheldon was definitely a reach(but was a supposed shot blocker and beast at the time). He made up for that mistake with Horford and Bibby. He probably wanted Rudy over Sheldon any way. All in all made his moves while understanding our pay roll limitations and also more importantly the concept of depth.

Draft a long lengthy utility player that can compliment anybodies game but not ready to lead on his own because that would stagnate our payroll (Childress) check. A player like this would be great for a playoff team that already has it's main core. That was the gist on Childress when he was drafted. He still we be a great fit now(extra rebounds, put backs, long arms, excels in the running game and is a great compliment player in the half court game).

Being not too good as a whole, allowed us to get Marvin. His gist has always been that he was going to be a great player a couple of years down the road. Not be great enough now to keep us mediocre by stunting our payroll and depth (meaning too good to get a good draft pick or to bring in another Allstar player). Look at Jazz/Hornets both teams may have reached their ceiling and are going to have to rebuild.

This allowed us to attempt to get a Horford to go along with our shot blocking stud in Josh Smith. We just ended up making the mistake of Sheldon but made up for it and flipped him for a Mike Bibby( Note: some draft picks are chosen to be traded they are what is referred to as bargaining chips).

There is a reason BK isn't in the NBA any more.

BK spent draft pick after draft pick after draft pick getting solid pieces for great prices(Rookie Salaries) and now that the team is growing up it looks great. You can say BK pretty much got away with high way robbery being able to construct a team with so much young athletic team. If you are not noticing the smart teams are starting to move in the same direction(Portland,OKC,Bulls might get it right this time). Other teams are spending as much money as they can to collect all the star power they can. Hence the have's and the have not's (money being the issue). The only thing that keeps us from being the have not's (Jazz/Hornets) is we have maximum talent on a minimum budget.

BK had foresight and stuck to his vision ignoring the nay sayers. He just felt like the team he was building was not being maximized under Woody's helm and knew a decision would have to be made where one of them would have to go.

[exodus]

Fortunately for Hawk land.

BK did not draft players for their personal accolades. He drafted players to build a TEAM.

What is the marvelous CP3's team doing? HA

How about Foye's? Yeah right.

I like Roy. I still like BK.

Childress... good player.

BK always said the same thing when it came to draft picks...

"We are gonna get a good player"

He never aimed for that lights out pick. He wanted picks that were low risk and multi-talented.

It is paying off.

If he wasn't aiming for the lights out pick then he certainly succeeded in that regard.

Childress couldn't score outside of 5 feet, couldn't create for himself or others and he couldn't defend so i dont see how he could be described as multi-talented. What are Sheldens many talents other than marrying over his considerable forehead?

Foye is playing a prominant role with the Wizards. Shelden isn't playing anywhere as far as I know and Childress is playing overseas. At least BK's draft picks can keep him company since they are out of the NBA just like him.

BK's '06 offseason would probably rank as one of the worst ever.

[sillent]

Cosign.

I have always been a big Billy Knight fan. Love to see him get credit.

I have become a huge Sund fan. Both as a GM and a person.

In his own way, he has made it clear he was not going to be part of any campaign to discredit. You can not honor a GM more than by keeping and resigning players that he brought in.

He has demonstrated great personal confidence in that regard.

That said the additions he has made and the manner in which he has done it has been nothing short of superlative.

Sund has been fantastic.

Exactly, I Cosign as well

[sillent]

Did all the years of losing condition some of us as Hawks fans, keeping us from moving forward?

Why are we still stuck on the past?

If you are talking about BK it is because if you look at our core you see BK players(draftees,etc.) .

[exodus]

BK spent draft pick after draft pick after draft pick getting solid pieces for great prices(Rookie Salaries) and now that the team is growing up it looks great.

BK spent pick after pick on the least talented of the available prospects. It was only the sheer number of lottery picks (due to the Hawks continued ineptitude) that bailed out BK.

When you pass up All-Stars on consecutive drafts there is no making up for that. How many All-Star teams have BK's picks made?

[sillent]

If he wasn't aiming for the lights out pick then he certainly succeeded in that regard.

Childress couldn't score outside of 5 feet, couldn't create for himself or others and he couldn't defend so i dont see how he could be described as multi-talented. What are Sheldens many talents other than marrying over his considerable forehead?

Foye is playing a prominant role with the Wizards. Shelden isn't playing anywhere as far as I know and Childress is playing overseas. At least BK's draft picks can keep him company since they are out of the NBA just like him.

BK's '06 offseason would probably rank as one of the worst ever.

I thought for sure he was drafted by the Wolves who were/still maybe very slim and in need of a good/great player at both guard positions. Your argument defeats it self when your saying Foye is a prominant role player in so many words. Maybe he would have been a good fit for our team( Not talented enough to win by himself and maybe he could of landed us another draft pick). Oops Sheldon already helped do that and we got Bibby in return for him. Who was Foye traded for again?

Edited November 5, 2009 by sillent

[lifelong]

Fortunately for Hawk land.

BK did not draft players for their personal accolades. He drafted players to build a TEAM.

What is the marvelous CP3's team doing? HA

How about Foye's? Yeah right.

I like Roy. I still like BK.

Childress... good player.

BK always said the same thing when it came to draft picks...

"We are gonna get a good player"

He never aimed for that lights out pick. He wanted picks that were low risk and multi-talented.

It is paying off.

You simply do not win championships in the NBA without that lights out player. Detroit did it, but that's the only exception in probably the last 30 years, and I'm not sure you can even call it an exception when you consider they had Billups and Wallace in their primes. I'm not even sure what "low risk and multi-talented" means, but I would describe Chris Paul and Brandon Roy as more low risk and multi-talented than Shelden or Marvin. If it means "not an all-star caliber player" then I guess I understand.

[sillent]

BK spent pick after pick on the least talented of the available prospects. It was only the sheer number of lottery picks (due to the Hawks continued ineptitude) that bailed out BK.

When you pass up All-Stars on consecutive drafts there is no making up for that. How many All-Star teams have BK's picks made?

Seeing that Smoove, Horford and Marvin are 23 it looks like they can have at least 10 in total by the time they get near their 30's.

We may even see an All-star team like the Pistons had where 4/5 starters make the team.

Edited November 5, 2009 by sillent

[exodus]

I thought for sure he was drafted by the Wolves who were/still maybe very slim and in need of a good/great player at both guard positions. Your argument defeats it self when your saying Foye is a prominant role player in so many words.

Funny you call Foy a role player as if it is an insult. What do you think Marvin and Horford are?

Who was Foye traded for again?

Foye was drafted by Minny (typo earlier) and traded to the Wizards this past summer in a package deal for the 5th pick.

I would take a prominent role player over a complete bust.

[exodus]

Seeing that Smoove, Horford and Marvin are 23 it looks like they can have at least 10 in total by the time they get near their 30's.

We may even see an All-star team like the Pistons had where 4/5 starters make the team.

:laughing5:

None of them have even come close to making an All-Star team and you think they can make a combined 10? Sounds like a bad case of Kool-Aid poisoning.

[sillent]

You simply do not win championships in the NBA without that lights out player. Detroit did it, but that's the only exception in probably the last 30 years, and I'm not sure you can even call it an exception when you consider they had Billups and Wallace in their primes. I'm not even sure what "low risk and multi-talented" means, but I would describe Chris Paul and Brandon Roy as more low risk and multi-talented than Shelden or Marvin. If it means "not an all-star caliber player" then I guess I understand.

Nobody can when a championship by their self( They at least need four more players on the court present). Everybody plays their role whether you are the star player or just complimenting peices. Lights out players are not what wins these championships. It is the confidence and ability for everyone to play their role to perfection and be on the same page (offensively/defensively) and collectively do what is needed to win the game. It was not always depending on Jordan(insert a lights out player) to take and make every shot, defensive stop or get every big rebound. Every player knew and played their role to perfection and answered when called upon. This is why the Pistons were able to shock the high and Mighty Shaq and Kobe squad because everyone on the Pistons knew their role and were committed to playing it to perfection. They also had the luxury of being able to hit you from all different angles.

Our players actually have more all around talent than those Pistons they are just not mentally ready to show case all of this talent. Marvin seems to currently be struggling with his role offensively but we have enough talent and can come from so many different angles that it is a hard force to stop. Every game we have played this year so far has all of our players stepping up and covering each others deficiencies. Marvin didn't play to good against the Wizards but made the big shots when it counted. Horford and Smoove played great offensively the first two games and know as long as they continue to be strong on defensive that they have other offensive weapons. Joe/Bibby have not been great but have been their when we needed them. Crawford is just getting his feet wet but he is also doing the things necessary to get the win. Our bench has also been instrumental when used.

Again I will say Players don't win championships, teams do!! It's just that the great players know how to get the most out of their team and step up their play when needed to get the win.

Edited November 5, 2009 by sillent

[High5]

BK had lottery pick after lottery pick to build with and years later our ceiling is only the 2nd round of the playoffs. You wouldn't praise someone for having a really nice 1 story home when for the same money they could have a really nice mansion.

Sund on the other hand has done a great job. I feel like he's as close to maximizing what he has to work with as anyone else could be.

Edited November 5, 2009 by High5