The players want extension for Woody

[Atlantaholic]

This is such a asinine article. It does not matter if its legit or not. What employee when asked in public and in front of his boss is going to say no to this question...I really think my boss needs to get fired. Dumbest damn question I have ever heard; now what they say in private is sometimes a different story....

Lol. Yeah, pretty much. How shocking for a semi-over the hill 31 yo PG who can barely stay in front of the likes of Duhon to sing the praises of the coach that plays him 31 mpg. :rolleyes:

You'd have to be a massive idiot to say bad things about the man in charge of your career.

[ATLBob]

Man, my dogs wouldn't even eat the crap y'all are squeezing out.

You are too close to the situation.

From the outside looking in, Woody should get an extension ASAP.

Folks outside ATL are talking about the Hawks. ESPN shows Hawks highlights in the first ten minutes of Sportscenter.

When was the last time you could say any of that?

Sure, Woody ain't perfect, but give the man some credit.

You can't back slap him with "he was handed lottery picks" without giving him some credit for developing these players. Seriously, look at the number of lottery picks over the past 6 years who currently start.

We can stay as fired up about ISO Joe as we want, but it's a superstar league.

What if Joe just starting making better decisions?

Look at the way the team plays this season. Observe the obvious chemistry. You want to blow all of that up so that you can see more bench play & better offensive concepts?

Continuity might be the most underrated facet of a successful franchise.

Bunch of amateurs masquerading as experts.

Edited December 8, 2009 by ATLBob

[AHF]

Why give an extension mid-season when everything is going right for the Hawks ala Charlier Weis' extension at Notre Dame or d*ck Jauron's extension with Buffalo?

Just play out the season and pay the guy what he earns if you want him back.

[ATLBob]

Why give an extension mid-season when everything is going right for the Hawks ala Charlier Weis' extension at Notre Dame or d*ck Jauron's extension with Buffalo?

Just play out the season and pay the guy what he earns if you want him back.

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable approach.

I'm not debating the timing, rather the notion that Woody hasn't earned an extension.

He has. If the Hawks lose a first-round playoff series (knocking on wood right now), then the situation becomes more highly charged.

Will he have still earned an extension? Yes.

Should he get one? I have no idea. (Did we collapse, run into a really hot team, etc).

But I just don't understand the segment of the fan base that wants him gone so desperately.

Barring an unforeseen catastrophe, I want the Spirit to keep him around with a competitive extension.

But his contract situation doesn't seem to effect the team right now, so I have no problem waiting for the off season.

[Buzzard]

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable approach.

I'm not debating the timing, rather the notion that Woody hasn't earned an extension.

He has. If the Hawks lose a first-round playoff series (knocking on wood right now), then the situation becomes more highly charged.

Will he have still earned an extension? Yes.

Should he get one? I have no idea. (Did we collapse, run into a really hot team, etc).

But I just don't understand the segment of the fan base that wants him gone so desperately.

Barring an unforeseen catastrophe, I want the Spirit to keep him around with a competitive extension.

But his contract situation doesn't seem to effect the team right now, so I have no problem waiting for the off season.

I am in the camp that wanted to see Woody gone two seasons ago. With that being said, I can give him till the all-star break. If we are in good position lets see how we do the rest of the season and in the playoffs. Woody is clearly not an Xs and Os guy, he plays JJ into the ground every chance he gets no matter how strong our bench is, and does not bench players very often at all for boneheaded selfish play; or bad play in general.

Larry Brown is an Xs and Os guy and a disciplinarian. I expected Woody to be similar. He has been a disappointment almost from day one...

Edited December 8, 2009 by Buzzard

[spotatl]

Maybe thats where we diverge on this. I think its RIDICULOUS to treat grown men like children and a micromanaging disciplinarian is the last thing in the world I want in the NBA. I think that Avery Johnson is just about the worst coach possible and far too often coaches screw up by trying to get too involved (don nelson) instead of just putting their players in position to succeed and letting them go.

Plus its my belief that the ASG would NEVER pay the money it would take to get a HOF quality coach in here. The team won't even field a full roster or a summer league team but you think they are going to drop major dollars on a coach?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I am in the camp that wanted to see Woody gone two seasons ago. With that being said, I can give him till the all-star break. If we are in good position lets see how we do the rest of the season and in the playoffs. Woody is clearly not an Xs and Os guy, he plays JJ into the ground every chance he gets no matter how strong our bench is, and does not bench players very often at all for boneheaded selfish play; or bad play in general.

Larry Brown is an Xs and Os guy and a disciplinarian. I expected Woody to be similar. He has been a disappointment almost from day one...

It still wouldn't matter, and you know it.

And please stop telling the lie about our strong bench. If we had a strong bench, things wouldn't immeadiately fall apart when they enter the game. If three of them can't even play together on the floor at the same time, then we don't have a strong bench.

The guys on the bench are BY FAR our worst defensive players on the team. If they ( they = Crawford ) isn't scoring the basketball, the bench as a group is pretty much useless . . because they're not going to play defense.

At best, we'll get Crawford + one other guy at least playing decent. But on most nights our bench = Crawford and Crawford only. Maybe Joe Smith can prove to be the other guy who ca get it done on a nightly basis. Zaza and Evans have been lackluster so far this year. And in non-garbage time, Teague has been lackluster as well.

LOL @ strong bench . . . please.

If Woody listened to the fans who want to see the bench play more, we'd be a 10 - 10 ballclub right now, instead of 14 - 6.

[Buzzard]

It still wouldn't matter, and you know it.

And please stop telling the lie about our strong bench. If we had a strong bench, things wouldn't immeadiately fall apart when they enter the game. If three of them can't even play together on the floor at the same time, then we don't have a strong bench.

The guys on the bench are BY FAR our worst defensive players on the team. If they ( they = Crawford ) isn't scoring the basketball, the bench as a group is pretty much useless . . because they're not going to play defense.

At best, we'll get Crawford + one other guy at least playing decent. But on most nights our bench = Crawford and Crawford only. Maybe Joe Smith can prove to be the other guy who ca get it done on a nightly basis. Zaza and Evans have been lackluster so far this year. And in non-garbage time, Teague has been lackluster as well.

LOL @ strong bench . . . please.

If Woody listened to the fans who want to see the bench play more, we'd be a 10 - 10 ballclub right now, instead of 14 - 6.

You need to take a chill pill calling people liars when all I am doing is expessing an opinion. I have never called you a liar just because your opinion is our bench is weak and Woody is a great coach. I expect no less from you on my opinions. Otherwise I consider you to be a sore loser, whose only recourse is to start with the childish name calling; which is a pitiful last ditch effort IMO to get your point acoss.

In no uncertain terms you just lost this debate.

Your coach of the year Mike Woodson would agree:

"Woodson said. "That's the unique thing about having a bunch of talent on your team. And they've got to understand. You can't play everybody."

Edited December 9, 2009 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You need to take a chill pill calling people liars when all I am doing is expessing an opinion. I have never called you a liar just because your opinion is our bench is weak and Woody is a great coach. I expect no less from you on my opinions. Otherwise I consider you to be a sore loser, whose only recourse is to start with the childish name calling; which is a pitiful last ditch effort IMO to get your point acoss.

In no uncertain terms you just lost this debate.

Your coach of the year Mike Woodson would agree:

I didn't call you a lie. I said that you need to stop telling that lie. If you're offended by that, I apologize. But I wasn't calling you a liar.

It's just that many people are saying that we have a strong bench. But the play of the bench doesn't back up that assertion at all. Teams have a field day against our bench. AND if Woody believes we have a great bench, he sure doesn't coach it like we do. He knows what's up. I don't think he believes the lie anymore either.

Forget Teague for a minute. Woody can't even depend on Zaza and Mo on a nightly basis anymore, because of their poor play. Crawford is Crawford. Great one night, horrible the next. Maybe Joe Smith can be the consistent guy off the bench. But even he has only had an impact in a game in 3 games ( Boston, Toronto and Dallas )

The fact is this though.

If he doesn't trust the bench, and the bench is weak defensively, then I have no problem with playing the starters more than he should, if it leads to wins. A lot of people talk about playing the bench more, so that the starters won't be worn down for the 2nd half of the season.

Well let me ask you this? How many games should we sacrifice, in order to do this? If we were 10 - 10, this board would be in complete chaos right now. Everybody knows this. LOL . . it would be Hawk Armageddon ( even though we'd be 5th in the conference ).

Our bench is Jamal Crawford, plain and simple. And Woody plays him like a starter.

LOL @ me losing this debate, but we're 14 - 6.

Once again sir, I did not call you a liar. I called the idea of us having a strong bench "a lie", because they're way more inconsistent than our starters.

[Swatguy]

Why give an extension mid-season when everything is going right for the Hawks ala Charlier Weis' extension at Notre Dame or d*ck Jauron's extension with Buffalo?

Just play out the season and pay the guy what he earns if you want him back.

Problem is, others will pay him. Sund may be risking to alienate Woody and lose him to another suiter. If Woody walks can Joe be far behind?

NJ or someother cap-friendly team invest 3-4 mil a year in Woody, Joe could also be lost.

Sund needs to sow it up.

Woody knows he will get paid next season, just may not know where. Or maybe he does (as well as Joe).

[AHF]

Problem is, others will pay him. Sund may be risking to alienate Woody and lose him to another suiter. If Woody walks can Joe be far behind?

NJ or someother cap-friendly team invest 3-4 mil a year in Woody, Joe could also be lost.

Sund needs to sow it up.

Woody knows he will get paid next season, just may not know where. Or maybe he does (as well as Joe).

I am not worried about another team making a huge offer to Woodson that we would not be willing to match. I'm just not -- at all.

Is he really itching to go coach NJ? Really?

[spotatl]

Lets say that the Hawks do win in the second round and get to the conference finals. You doubt that he woudl get a big offer from another team?

[AHF]

Lets say that the Hawks do win in the second round and get to the conference finals. You doubt that he woudl get a big offer from another team?

If he makes the conference finals I have no doubt that he resigns with Atlanta for good money unless ownership is too cheap to pay him.

I don't see him leaving so he can get himself back on worst career record lists by coaching the Nets for a few dollars more.

[spotatl]

I seriously doubt that the ASG would pay what it takes to outbid anyone. They didn't even field a summer league team and you think they would pay a coach a big salary? They wouldn't even let their assistant coaches leave when they had better offers elsewhere.

I absolutely get why people who want to see Woodson Fired are OK with letting him finish out the season without an extension- but given the team's success I do think you should consider how it looks to an outsider and I have to think he would generate significant interest this offseason.

Edited December 9, 2009 by spotatl

[Swatguy]

I am not worried about another team making a huge offer to Woodson that we would not be willing to match. I'm just not -- at all.

Is he really itching to go coach NJ? Really?

OK scenario: Hawks BS all the way to June. Day after season (or before) NJ offers 18 mil for 5 years. Joe's agent is leaning towards the max offer from NJ.

NJ (if Joe jumps) has Lopez, Yi, Terence/Sean Williams, Douglas-Roberts, Courtney Lee, Josh Boone, Rafer Alston, DEVIN HARRIS AND JOE with a lottery pick.

In NEW YORK !!!

Oh, Woody's daughter just got a volleyball scholarship from Columbia/St.Johns/Princeton/next best school.

After this happens, Al decides to wait and Sund is fired.

[AHF]

If the ASG is willing to invest significant money in the last 6 months in Crawford, Pachulia, Bibby and Marvin, I don't know why they would be penny-wise/pound-foolish in signing their next coach's contract.

[jhay610]

If the ASG is willing to invest significant money in the last 6 months in Crawford, Pachulia, Bibby and Marvin, I don't know why they would be penny-wise/pound-foolish in signing their next coach's contract.

I was about to post this myself. People still love to crow about how cheap the ASG is, but the fact is they made the above signings, they took care of the Smooth situation two offseasons ago and they were proactive in getting a competitive offer on the table for Joe. They did all this despite continued mediocre to poor results at the gate.

At some point ASG deserves a little bit of credit. People are still complaining like we are the Montreal Expos (drafting and developing but then refusing to pay homegrown talent when the time comes). All evidence appears to point to the contrary.

Edited December 9, 2009 by jhay610

[spotatl]

Since the biby trade I don't complain about the ASG spending money on the player (though I still maintain there is no chance they will go into the luxury tax and I can't blame them for that) but repeatedly in other areas they have skimped. They signed Woodson when he was cheap. They refused to let assistant coaches leave for better offers because they didn't want to spend the money to replace them. They didn't field a summer league team. They aren't filling out a full roster this season.

As I said- I'll be happily surprised if the ASG do spend for a quality HOF level coach. But if Woodson gets replaced I'll bet serious money that the new Hawks coach is in the bottom 10 in the league in salary.

[AHF]

As I said- I'll be happily surprised if the ASG do spend for a quality HOF level coach. But if Woodson gets replaced I'll bet serious money that the new Hawks coach is in the bottom 10 in the league in salary.

Woodson is not a HOF level coach. I don't expect them to spend that much - ala Phil Jackson's 10M/year, Larry Brown's 7M/year, etc. However, they should be able to exceed the salary range for recent hires like John Kuester (2M), Paul Westphal (1.5M), Scott Brooks (<2M), Jay Triano (<2M), etc. if Woodson proves his worth this season.

[tremor]

After last two wins I have a little more respect for coach Woodson. I mean I see all those shortcomings. What he propose are not the best options but decent ones and as long as he controls starters minutes he does good job most of the time. Not great, but good.

Does it mean he should get an extension? It depends. If Hawks can get a better coach, why not? But if management doesn't have really good alternatives in sight, they shouldn't hesitate.

Bringing back JJ is much more important anyway so in regards of coaching anything possible should be done to please him.

Edited December 12, 2009 by tremor