Woody isn't a bad coach...he just doesn't know how to coach..

[MVP23]

The guys can teach defense. Case in point last nights game. The suns average 110 points a game, and last night they only scored 101. We have a top 7(?) defense. The problem is our offense is terrible. And we have guys that can score. Al has a j, joe, Craw, and Bibs all have range, josh gets easy buckets,...the problem is Woody has no idea what to do with this offense. And everything goes to hell when Mo, and Joe Smith are in the game at the same time..good god that is the worse combo in NBA history..

[spotatl]

Are you joking? The Hawks have the second best offense in the league. They have the 12th best defense this year.

Edited January 16, 2010 by spotatl

[MVP23]

Are you joking? The Hawks have the second best offense in the league. They have the 12th best defense this year.

we're 7th on offense, and 12th on defense..but thats not the point

[mattlanta]

we're 7th on offense, and 12th on defense..but thats not the point

Then what is your point? Your post gave me the impression that you were complaining about our team's performance because of coaching, mainly because of a lack of offense. Woodson could probably do better with the pieces he has now, but it's nothing to complain about. He's slowly realizing which players can perform in the moments when he wants them to like Crawford, Johnson, etc. and players that struggle in those situations like Marvin (can't believe how many missed shots he's taken where he was wide open).

[MVP23]

Then what is your point? Your post gave me the impression that you were complaining about our team's performance because of coaching, mainly because of a lack of offense. Woodson could probably do better with the pieces he has now, but it's nothing to complain about. He's slowly realizing which players can perform in the moments when he wants them to like Crawford, Johnson, etc. and players that struggle in those situations like Marvin (can't believe how many missed shots he's taken where he was wide open).

..Our offense is the worse in the league when he argent running up the court. We score 102 points because he score a ton on fast breaks. In a half court game, its iso, iso, pass, and chuck. Our switching defense is hit and miss a lot of the time, but at least it works from time to time...and the fact that Mario got more mins then Teague (Teague didn't even play) is ridiculous..

[spotatl]

The Hawks score 109 points per 100 possessions- thats second in the league. The hawks give up 103.3 points per 100 possessions on defense- thats 12th in the league. Per game stats are misleading because of pace- All I care about is how often when you get the ball do you convert it into points. (Golden State scores more points per game than the Hawks but the Hawks offense has been MUCH better) THe Hawks have been ridiculously good on offense this season and people don't realize it because they have been bitching about woodson's offense so long that they ahve stopped paying attention to the actual results.

Edited January 16, 2010 by spotatl

[niremetal]

The Hawks score 109 points per 100 possessions- thats second in the league. The hawks give up 103.3 points per 100 possessions on defense- thats 12th in the league. Per game stats are misleading because of pace- All I care about is how often when you get the ball do you convert it into points. (Golden State scores more points per game than the Hawks but the Hawks offense has been MUCH better) THe Hawks have been ridiculously good on offense this season and people don't realize it because they have been bitching about woodson's offense so long that they ahve stopped paying attention to the actual results.

But the reliance on ISOs and on the players to create has run us into trouble when we face teams who force us to play half-court ball. And rest assured that that will happen in the playoffs again this year. Simply put, Larry Brown and Stan Van Gundy are better at defensive schemes than the Hawks backcourt is at offensive schemes. That isn't surprising considering that players aren't, you know, coaches.

Edited January 17, 2010 by niremetal

[jy23]

This is the dumbest title for a thread I've ever seen!

[gsuteke]

we're 7th on offense, and 12th on defense..but thats not the point

So the point is........... you have no point.

Woody said it all when quoted in that "embedded" thread. "I know you guys can score enough points to win."

And they do except for against the Magic. They are our achilles heel.

[DjGrizz]

Were second in offensive efficiency. That is not equal to having the second best offense overall.

[MVP23]

Were second in offensive efficiency. That is not equal to having the second best offense overall.

THANK YOU!

[spotatl]

By any measure of people who can count the Hawks offense has been better than the Hawks defense this season.

I do think the Hawks offense will be less effective in the playoffs- ALL offenses are going to be less effective in the playoffs since Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando are all top 5 in defense. By doing thinks the Hawks aren't particularly good at I think it makes the job of the opposing defenses that much easier.

What cracks me up so much about people who think the Hawks offense is fatally flawed- is that to me the autoswitching defense has no chance at all against a smart team. If the Cavs play the Hawks- they can just run a quick PnR with Lebron against whatever player they think is the biggest mismatch. Then they can just let Lebron go 1 on 1 against whoever they like. I love the switching defense late in the shot clock but early in the shotclock its suicide. People have complained so much about Woodson's offense that they have their heads up their *ss when the Offense is dominating and don't see the gaping holes in the defense.

Edited January 17, 2010 by spotatl

[gsuteke]

THANK YOU!

Your argument is so riddled with bullet holes you're now seeking a support group.

[gsuteke]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standings?season=2010&group=division&column=avgPointsFor&order=false&seasontype=2

The Hawks are the 2nd highest scroring team in the East behind Toronto at 103.5 to 103.1

The difference - the Hawks give up 97 ppg while the Raptors give up 105 ppg.

Anyone with a brain can see the Hawks are +6 while the Raptors are -2

To quote Mike Woodson maybe "the s*** does work"

Haters

Edited January 17, 2010 by gsuteke

[DjGrizz]

Your argument is so riddled with bullet holes you're now seeking a support group.

For one, let me add that I too think his post is silly and ridicuolas.

I was just correcting a misconception.

[spotatl]

What do you consdier to be a better measure of offense than offensive efficiency? I am an end result guy- all I care about is how many points the team gets per possession. I don't care if its off an ISO, a PnR, or a putback- how often do you score when you have the ball.

[AHF]

What do you consdier to be a better measure of offense than offensive efficiency? I am an end result guy- all I care about is how many points the team gets per possession. I don't care if its off an ISO, a PnR, or a putback- how often do you score when you have the ball.

Do you know if any site breaks down offensive efficiency in the halfcourt versus fastbreak? We have already discussed this topic ad nauseum in the past but I am worried that we will be forced much more into a substantially less efficient offense (relative to other teams that have mutliple looks in the halfcourt) in the post-season.

I would be very interested in seeing stats on team offense only in the halfcourt this season.

[Supporter]

You guys are missing his point, that Woodson doesn't coach on offense. When crunch time comes, and the coach only draws up iso's its pretty obvious that he either doesn't like to draw up plays or doesn't know how to. Game winners are fun and all but when the playoff comes, I'd rather have a decent play ran at the end of the game than a Joe iso. Even, Hollinger stated that our offense has been very good because of hustle and rebounds and not iso's which is what woodson decides to run during the fourth quarter.

[tbhawksfan]

I agree witht the topic and the title. Any coach that says he does'nt do O is a joke. Our O is good because of teh players and Bibby's PG play. Why did Bibs make such a big difference? Because, before he put a little structure in our O, we had none.

With the length and athletes we have, I think our D could be better too.

Better coaching =better exploitation of our player assets.

[spotatl]

Bibby made such a difference because it was the only legitimate starting NBA pointguard that Woodson has had since he has been here. Seriously- look at the other PG's that Knight gave Woodson to work with and then ask again why Bibby made such a difference.

And The Hawks have bigmen that are better in transition than they are in the halfcourt- why is that woodsons fault?