Woody: I think the fact that I am trying to–I don’t want to use the word ‘hiding’ guys

[exodus]

The difference between Teague and Bibby is that Teague needs an off-season to improve his game, whilst Bibby needs the offseason to check out beach front property in Malibu and retire... Too bad we signed him to two more years, because if it had been a 1 year deal we would have traded him at the deadline and he would have been out of the NBA by next year.

The last two years of his deal are really going to hurt, not that this one hasn't. He is pretty much untradable until his last year.

[Diesel]

The difference between Teague and Bibby is that Teague needs an off-season to improve his game, whilst Bibby needs the offseason to check out beach front property in Malibu and retire... Too bad we signed him to two more years, because if it had been a 1 year deal we would have traded him at the deadline and he would have been out of the NBA by next year.

When we started camp, Bibby spoke openly about mentoring Teague and stepping back a bit. I think Bibby is already there as far as stepping down soon is concerned. He's ready for somebody else to take the lead. BUT I don't think that Woody is there yet.

I would love to see us get Kyle Lowry from Houston. I think they will pick up his option though.

[AHF]

There is just zero downside to playing Teague more extensive minutes down the stretch. If he responds well to playing with the starters and gets in a groove, he could prove useful in spot time in the playoffs - at a minimum as a curveball for the PGs who abuse Bibby defensively. If he doesn't step up to the challenge or mesh with the starters, then you don't play him in the playoffs.

There is no question that (a) he would benefit the most on the entire roster from additional minutes and (b) that he is the only person whose game is enough of an unknown that he could develop in a few weeks into a part of the rotation. All our other bench guys are known commodities and most of them have had extensive time playing with starters over their careers.

If Woodson has already given up on Teague he needs to stop promoting him as someone who is going to be a player in the league or he needs to be ready for people to ask why Teague hasn't had steady minutes or a chance to play with any lineup but the scrub city leftovers.

[spotatl]

As I recall part of the reason Acie started his rookie year is that Anthony Johnson was injured to start the year. THen Woodson wasn't playing acie and all the fanboys who love any young player no matter what were up in arms that Woodson wasn't giving him a fair shot. Woodson has shown good judgement on young talent.

IF Teague needs the ball in his hands to be successful then he makes the team worse when he is on the floor because the team is better when the ball is in the hands of Crawford and Joe. So he needs an offseason to either develop to the point where the offense can run through him at a playoff caliber level or to become a competent off ball player. Maybe if the ownership group weren't too cheap to field a summer league team Teague would be farther along now.

Edited March 12, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

As I recall part of the reason Acie started his rookie year is that Anthony Johnson was injured to start the year.

You recall wrong. Lue was the starting pg for the Hawks the previous season and he was ahead of AJ on the depth chart. AJ was only brought in for insurance. AJ was the 3rd string pg and only got starts after both Lue and Acie got hurt. AJ was publicly pissed about his lack of playing time early in the season.

Edited March 12, 2010 by exodus

[spotatl]

AJ was the 3rd string pg

Uhhh... Exodus... Anthony Johnson started 41 of the 42 games he played for the hawks that season.

Edited March 12, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

Uhhh... Exodus... Anthony Johnson started 41 of the 42 games he played for the hawks that season.

He was getting DNPs early in the season. Lue and Acie were both playing 20 minutes a game in November.

Then Acie got hurt followed by Lue, who missed December. It was in the AJC when he was complaining about a lack of time to start the season. Then a month later he was the only pg the Hawks had.

Edited March 12, 2010 by exodus

[AHF]

There are numerous references to AJ not playing until injuries hit. For example:

Anthony Johnson, pressed into starting duty by injuries to three other point guards...

Atlanta's Anthony Johnson has excelled starting at point guard after being pressed into the role due to injuries to Speedy Claxton, Tyronn Lue and Acie Law...

I would stop trying to convince the world Woody just preferred AJ to Law before the injuries came.

[exodus]

There are numerous references to AJ not playing until injuries hit. For example:

I would stop trying to convince the world Woody just preferred AJ to Law before the injuries came.

How do you find stuff like that? You seem to be able to pull up quotes about anything,

[spotatl]

its pretty clear that Woodson preferred AJ to Law for the majority of the season. I had it in my head that AJ was injured to start the year. I just remembered AJ started a bunch when the Hawks acquired him the season before and was the starter most of that season. I thought he had personal issues and missed a game and then was banged up but I am just going off of memory. It doesn't change that fact that people were bitching about Acie's playing time as the season went on and now we know that Woodson had a more accurate view of Acie than the Fans did.

Edited March 12, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

its pretty clear that Woodson preferred AJ to Law for the majority of the season. I had it in my head that AJ was injured to start the year. I just remembered AJ started a bunch when the Hawks acquired him the season before and was the starter most of that season. I thought he had personal issues and missed a game and then was banged up but I am just going off of memory. It doesn't change that fact that people were bitching about Acie's playing time as the season went on and now we know that Woodson had a more accurate view of Acie than the Fans did.

There were people bitching about Acie's time last year even though Flip and Bibby were having big years and there was no way to justify more time for Acie. That is a completely different subject though.

Acie was shooting 48% from the field before his initial injury. He wasn't lighting it up but he wasn't playing that bad. He just never played very well after his injuries.

AJ had a couple of very clutch performances after Lue and Law went down that saved the Hawks and after that the starting job was his to lose. Lue preferred coming off the bench anyway for whatever reason (i almost forgot about Ivey starting over him) and Acie never beat them out for more time.

[Diesel]

its pretty clear that Woodson preferred AJ to Law for the majority of the season. I had it in my head that AJ was injured to start the year. I just remembered AJ started a bunch when the Hawks acquired him the season before and was the starter most of that season. I thought he had personal issues and missed a game and then was banged up but I am just going off of memory. It doesn't change that fact that people were bitching about Acie's playing time as the season went on and now we know that Woodson had a more accurate view of Acie than the Fans did.

I don't know Spot.

I think you have to obviously look at the effect that Woody have on players. If Woody gets a guy right out of college and he doesn't allow him to develop and then he sends him to another team and he doesn't develop... Does that mean that the guy was not good to begin with? NO. I think had Woody developed Acie, gave him time, let him play with starters, etc... Acie would have been a much better player.

Case in point. Diaw. Diaw sucked as a Hawk. Diaw complained about the offense. Diaw looked useless. When we traded Diaw, everybody said good riddance and thought that Woody was right for putting him in the doghouse. Unlike Acie, Diaw got traded to a team that took time to develop him and he became the MIP.

The all knowing eye of Woody was wrong.

I just think it's a bad thing for Woody to doghouse young players because they don't fit in his mold.

[spotatl]

Diaw is the only example of a guy who has done better after leaving. But I think that was a case of D'Antoni having a great out of the box idea to try him at Center rather than a Gaffe on Woodson's part. Ironically Diaw is the only young Hawk that at the time I don't think the fans thought Woodson messed up on.

When Acie wasn't playing people bitched about his playing time- Now Acie has been on 3 teams since and none of those coaches want him either. He didn't even have his 4th year team option picked up Woodson was right about Acie.

When Salim wasn't playing people bitched about his playing time. Now Salim is out of the league. Woodson was right about Salim.

When Shelden wasn't getting enough PT there were plenty of people that bitched about how Woodson was using him. He has also been discarded by 2 more teams since leaving hte Hawks and didn't have his 4th year team option picked up. Woodson was right about Shelden.

As I said- Woodson did miss on Diaw. but overall he has absolutely earned the benefit of the doubt from me on young players. There are plenty of guys that one coach doesn't use right and then they get better after moving onto a different sitaution. Once a guy becomes an UFA they can go to any team in the league. If a player fails at 4 teams then yes it the players fault and not the coachecs.

When the GM drafts a crappy player to me all the coach can do is recognize it early on and not compound the mistake. Coaches don't have a magic wand.

Edited March 12, 2010 by spotatl

[Diesel]

Diaw is the only example of a guy who has done better after leaving. But I think that was a case of D'Antoni having a great out of the box idea to try him at Center rather than a Gaffe on Woodson's part. Ironically Diaw is the only young Hawk that at the time I don't think the fans thought Woodson messed up on.

When Acie wasn't playing people bitched about his playing time- Now Acie has been on 3 teams since and none of those coaches want him either. He didn't even have his 4th year team option picked up Woodson was right about Acie.

When Salim wasn't playing people bitched about his playing time. Now Salim is out of the league. Woodson was right about Salim.

When Shelden wasn't getting enough PT there were plenty of people that bitched about how Woodson was using him. He has also been discarded by 2 more teams since leaving hte Hawks and didn't have his 4th year team option picked up. Woodson was right about Shelden.

As I said- Woodson did miss on Diaw. but overall he has absolutely earned the benefit of the doubt from me on young players. There are plenty of guys that one coach doesn't use right and then they get better after moving onto a different sitaution. Once a guy becomes an UFA they can go to any team in the league. If a player fails at 4 teams then yes it the players fault and not the coachecs.

When the GM drafts a crappy player to me all the coach can do is recognize it early on and not compound the mistake. Coaches don't have a magic wand.

I don't think you can totally separate Woody's coaching of these guys to these guys place.

It doesn't matter how smart you are...

If all I ever do is treat you like s--- and ruin your confidence in your smarts...

then when you go to your next job, you will be damaged.

I think Woody Damaged both Salim and Acie. The sad thing is that both guys came to this team with a lot of confidence ready to learn. After the Woody treatment, they were no longer fit.

[spotatl]

Salim and Acie were just terrible players who weren't good enough to help an NBA team. Its not Woodson's fault- its BK's. Its to Woodsons credit that he recognized early on that these guys sucked.

If either one of them were any good they have had PLENTY of chances playing under different coaches to show that Woodson was wrong. But now we know that Woodson was right not to play them more.

Edited March 12, 2010 by spotatl

[AHF]

How do you find stuff like that? You seem to be able to pull up quotes about anything,

I just pulled up yahoo and typed in a few words and ran a search. It was something like: "anthony johnson" acie law lue injuries

Then I clicked on a couple links that were talking about how Johnson was pressed into starting duty after injuries to our other guys.

Edited March 12, 2010 by AHF

[exodus]

I just pulled up yahoo and typed in a few words and ran a search. It was something like: "anthony johnson" acie law lue injuries

Then I clicked on a couple links that were talking about how Johnson was pressed into starting duty after injuries to our other guys.

I have never tried a search with a combination like that.

Head coach Mike Woodson has been impressed with the recent play of reserve point guard Anthony Johnson. While guards Speedy Claxton, Tyronn Lue and Acie Law tend to their injuries, Johnson has been the general on the floor. Johnson posted a season-high 21 points and 9 assists in a win over Miami on Wednesday -- two days after he registered 17 points and 14 assists in a win over Utah.

Over his last three games, Johnson is averaging 16.3 points.

"A.J. has been phenomenal," Woodson said. "He's running our ballclub, getting the ball where it has to go. He's defending for us and he's scoring. He's doing everything a point guard is supposed to do."

Those are the games i was remembering but i wouldn't have known how to find them. Thanks