This sums up last nights game perfectly

[Guest]

"The minute I started subbing we just went dead in the water," said Drew. "That's probably the third [straight] game that has happened."

It's a jarring change of affairs for the Hawks, because the past two seasons they were accustomed to extending leads in the second quarter when the bench entered. But injuries to Marvin Williams and Maurice Evans have left the team without a true small forward and thrown the entire rotation out of whack.

Nobody has been affected more than Josh Smith, who has slid down to small forward and is still adjusting to the new role, both offensively and defensively. Of particular note was a late first-quarter sequence when Smith conceded wide-open 20-footers to Corey Maggette on successive possessions, jump-starting Milwaukee's rally,

"Josh isn't used to playing guys like that," said Drew, who said it doubly hurt because he couldn't use Smith in a more natural matchup against Ersan Ilyasova. Those two Milwaukee bench players combined for 37 points, and each had more points than any of the Hawks.

Offensively, Smith couldn't space the floor for his teammates the way Williams or Evans can, a weakness exacerbated by the offensively inert Jason Collins starting at center. Collins went scoreless, with his one shot attempt a wide-open, straight-on 15-footer that barely grazed the side of the rim before skidding harmlessly out of bounds.

John Hollinger - ESPN

[spotatl]

When you sell the first pick in the second round and then draft Pape Sy with the other one you aren't allowed to complain about lack of depth. Those are the moves of a team that thinks they have plenty of contributors.

To me its more surprising that people here aren't killing Drew for trying to play Josh Smith at SF so much. We have all known for years that it would be a big mistake to play him at SF- he gets drawn too far outside on defense, he isn't a great defender out there, and it leaves the team with too little outside shooting. I'd easily rather see Joe slide over to SF- he easily has the size to play there.

Edited November 11, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

When you sell the first pick in the second round and then draft Pape Sy with the other one you aren't allowed to complain about lack of depth. Those are the moves of a team that thinks they have plenty of contributors.

To me its more surprising that people here aren't killing Drew for trying to play Josh Smith at SF so much. We have all known for years that it would be a big mistake to play him at SF- he gets drawn too far outside on defense, he isn't a great defender out there, and it leaves the team with too little outside shooting. I'd easily rather see Joe slide over to SF- he easily has the size to play there.

I agree, but there are people here (DJ, Diesel and sultan to name 3) who think playing Smith at the 3 is actually a good move. Sometimes i have to wonder what games people are watching.

There is a thread on the front page that is promoting Smith at the 3. Go figure.

[coachx]

.

To me its more surprising that people here aren't killing Drew for trying to play Josh Smith at SF so much.

We would be if he had a healthy SF to play instead.

We now see how valuable Marvin is to this team.

Edited November 11, 2010 by coachx

[HawkItus]

I agree, but there are people here (DJ, Diesel and sultan to name 3) who think playing Smith at the 3 is actually a good move. Sometimes i have to wonder what games people are watching.

There is a thread on the front page that is promoting Smith at the 3. Go figure.

"Josh isn't used to playing guys like that," said Drew, who said it doubly hurt because he couldn't use Smith in a more natural matchup against Ersan Ilyasova. Those two Milwaukee bench players combined for 37 points, and each had more points than any of the Hawks.

Again it is too soon to say he can't be successful at the 3. Coach even said himself he is not used to playing the 3 and dealing with the skills those players present. He didn't say he couldn't. The problem is we don't have an adequate replacement at the 5 or a defensive stopper at shooting guard if Joe isn't in the game.

[Wretch]

"The minute I started subbing we just went dead in the water," said Drew. "That's probably the third [straight] game that has happened."

It's a jarring change of affairs for the Hawks, because the past two seasons they were accustomed to extending leads in the second quarter when the bench entered. But injuries to Marvin Williams and Maurice Evans have left the team without a true small forward and thrown the entire rotation out of whack.

Nobody has been affected more than Josh Smith, who has slid down to small forward and is still adjusting to the new role, both offensively and defensively. Of particular note was a late first-quarter sequence when Smith conceded wide-open 20-footers to Corey Maggette on successive possessions, jump-starting Milwaukee's rally,

"Josh isn't used to playing guys like that," said Drew, who said it doubly hurt because he couldn't use Smith in a more natural matchup against Ersan Ilyasova. Those two Milwaukee bench players combined for 37 points, and each had more points than any of the Hawks.

Offensively, Smith couldn't space the floor for his teammates the way Williams or Evans can, a weakness exacerbated by the offensively inert Jason Collins starting at center. Collins went scoreless, with his one shot attempt a wide-open, straight-on 15-footer that barely grazed the side of the rim before skidding harmlessly out of bounds.

John Hollinger - ESPN

The most positive thing about that @sswhooping last night...is this delightfully humorous and accurate description of Jason Collins. I will be laughing about this all day. Man, that sorry shot he put up wasn't worth a damn sh!t.

[spotatl]

I am one of the biggest people you will ever meet as far as "basketball positions are made up... who cares what "position" someone plays. But to me you need to be able to put your guys in position to do well. And Josh's value on defense is close to the basket where he can easily help- when a team can drag him outside it really kills the team defense. (Orlando...) When you play him against a SF it makes it trivially easy to drag him outside. On offense he isn't an asset away from the basket.

If the Hawks had an outside shooting center (even someone like Anthony Tolliver) then I would have far less problem with him playing SF. But to me when the Hawks have 3 players who are not at all threats from the 3 point line it just takes too much of the offense away. Then you compound it by making it even easier for teams to drag Smith away from the basket on defense and its just never made any sense at all to me why people would clamor for it.

I literally would rather have Smith playing Center than Small Forward- at least then Smith would present a mismatch on offense that the team could try and exploit.

Edited November 11, 2010 by spotatl

[Guest]

And it's not only dragging Smith away from the basket that hurts our defense...it's also that 1) he just doesn't have the quickness to match up when they face him up, 2) too many open shots for the player he is guarding because he is also slow to rotate and 3) too many times he loses his man off screens and picks and get's caught in no man's land....Josh's defensive strength is inside the paint plain and simple.

[GameTime]

We would be if he had a healthy SF to play instead.

We now see how valuable a SF is to this team.

I more so blame Sund for not fixing this problem this offseason. A big I told ya so.

Edited November 11, 2010 by GameTime

[exodus]

Again it is too soon to say he can't be successful at the 3. Coach even said himself he is not used to playing the 3 and dealing with the skills those players present. He didn't say he couldn't. The problem is we don't have an adequate replacement at the 5 or a defensive stopper at shooting guard if Joe isn't in the game.

Being used to the position won't stop guys from blowing right past him if he steps out. He just isn't quick enough. He couldn't even stay in front of Hickson when he drove.

Offensively...

Offensively, Smith couldn't space the floor for his teammates the way Williams or Evans can, a weakness exacerbated by the offensively inert Jason Collins starting at center. Collins went scoreless, with his one shot attempt a wide-open, straight-on 15-footer that barely grazed the side of the rim before skidding harmlessly out of bounds.

[coachx]

I more so blame Sund for not fixing this problem this offseason. A big I told ya so.

You predicted both of our SFs would get hurt in the first week of the season ?

[PlayaPat420]

You predicted both of our SFs would get hurt in the first week of the season ?

To be fair, Mo was hurt during the off-season, so Sund should/could have added more/better depth at the position.

[Marvin24Williams]

How do people not realize smith is not at his best at the 3 position? He can't space the floor, and his perimeter defense is just horrible.

[ngc7]

start teague, crawford, johnson,smith,horford,

bring bibby off the bench for scoring when needed. problem solved. collins should not be starting

[Highpozt2]

To be fair, Mo was hurt during the off-season, so Sund should/could have added more/better depth at the position.

Depth is pretty good on the team with the ability to do some switching ---- of course with the losing streak you start to question things. It looks like we do not have a defensive grinder except Smith and Horford. Horford is often undersized but he grinds. Drew will have to get someone other than those two to decide defense is paramount. I particularly would like to see Jeff Teague's tongue hanging out from playing D so aggressively.