Can we all agree on at least one thing!

[Sothron]

I completely agree with the OP and +1 to make up for (imo) fraudulent minuses.

We've seen these guys for years now. It just isn't good enough. Either Al needs to go for a true center or Josh needs to go for a true center and Al moves to PF. We can't keep both. Josh can't shoot AT ALL from outside so he can't play the three.

Trading one of these guys is a necessity.

[sasuke]

They didn't just happen to struggle, they got totally exposed and the only time they performed somewhat better on the boards is when they played at the 3 and 4, not 4 and 5. Also, it's been shown repeatedly that relying heavily on trying to outrun your opponent, especially in the playoffs, doesn't work. In addition, the Hawks need to bring in someone who has the ability to score in the paint because neither Smoove or Al are that good at scoring in the post.

I'm not going to say that they are terrible rebounders just cuz one playoff series. It's ridiculous. Both of them have proved though all their careers that they can rebound.

And regarding the run & gun offense, it's the best offense that fits this roster like it or not. Our front court isn't big enough to play the half court effectively, but they are athletic freaks & that athleticism it's being wasted. Even fn Marvin will go nuts running, probably the only way to get offense out of him. While we have those guys, the best thing to do is run. Now, if 1 or 2 of them are traded we can play something else.

[Jody23]

I'm not going to say that they are terrible rebounders just cuz one playoff series. It's ridiculous. Both of them have proved though all their careers that they can rebound.

And regarding the run & gun offense, it's the best offense that fits this roster like it or not. Our front court isn't big enough to play the half court effectively, but they are athletic freaks & that athleticism it's being wasted. Even fn Marvin will go nuts running, probably the only way to get offense out of him. While we have those guys, the best thing to do is run. Now, if 1 or 2 of them are traded we can play something else.

That's the thing. It wasn't just this playoff series vs the Bulls. Look at last year vs Orlando and the year before that vs Cleveland. As currently constructed, the Hawks are too small upfront to make any kind of impact versus the teams that matter. This organization is insane to continue to put the same thing out there while expecting a different outcome. Trades need to be made and roles need to change. Otherwise, this team will go no further than it already has no matter who's coaching or what offensive style you employ.

[Guest]

I'm with Diesel in terms of keeping both and upgrading the rest of the roster first.

But at this point I don't care who would get traded, Josh or Al to make this team better. I like both players, but I also think the back and forth between SF/PF/C is problematic for both guys. If I had to make a life or death choice bewteen the two I'll pick Al. Here's why:

1. I have more confidence that Al will have a bounce back year from the horrible 2nd half season and playoffs than I have of Josh finally "getting it" and playing to his strengths consistently.

[thatsrightJSmoove]

I'm with Diesel in terms of keeping both and upgrading the rest of the roster first.

But at this point I don't care who would get traded, Josh or Al to make this team better. I like both players, but I also think the back and forth between SF/PF/C is problematic for both guys. If I had to make a life or death choice bewteen the two I'll pick Al. Here's why:

1. I have more confidence that Al will have a bounce back year from the horrible 2nd half season and playoffs than I have of Josh finally "getting it" and playing to his strengths consistently.

i'm sorry, i just don't agree. i just don't think Al gives us the intangibles that Josh brings... Josh is a triple double threat on any given night. he probably has more triple doubles than anyone on this team in the past 3 years. in my opinion, he more than makes up for the miscues he makes, and that jumper does go down on occasion. not to mention, right now he already has a better post game than Al. Josh is "that guy" on this team, as evidenced by the comments from his coaches and his teammates. they expect a lot from Josh, he has to be the energy guy, the guy that plays all over the floor, the guy that ignites this team. and i've seen way too many nights where if he doesn't do it, no one else will. they're all waiting for him to do it- and when they lose, he gets a lot of the blame, but little of the glory when they win. Chris Mullen echoed my thoughts on it perfectly after game 4 in the bulls series, when he said "if Josh is gonna give you this kind of effort, he's earned the right to take an outside jumper sometimes". and most nights he gives it to you. but having said all that, i like Al, and would like to see us keep them both. i'd play them at the 3 and 4 because i think Al is beginning to shy away from playing the 5 more and more, and it's showing in his game. i agree with others- i would love to see us get that consistent, legitimate low post scorer, and with what Josh can bring us down there a few plays a night, that's just that much more scoring we can get underneath the basket, and not jumpshots.

[macdaddy]

The idea of JJ not fitting in and having an issue with not being the focal point is laughable. When things got tough the team as a whole reverted to "Woody" ball. It wasn't just Joe pounding the ball, it was no other player movement as well. When Joe gets doubled or sees the double coming he needs to make a quicker pass, Ive said it time and time again, but that is also contingent on his teammates moving when he gets doubled or make themselves available to get the pass.

How is that laughable? Isn't Joe the team leader? Isn't he the one running most of the plays? Isn't it his job to make sure the team doesn't revert to isos and that he makes better decisions?

I think its laughable to think that he is ok not being the focal point. To paraphrase his quote 'guys need to know who should have the ball at the end of games'.

[Crank]

I'm with Diesel in terms of keeping both and upgrading the rest of the roster first.

But at this point I don't care who would get traded, Josh or Al to make this team better. I like both players, but I also think the back and forth between SF/PF/C is problematic for both guys. If I had to make a life or death choice bewteen the two I'll pick Al. Here's why:

1. I have more confidence that Al will have a bounce back year from the horrible 2nd half season and playoffs than I have of Josh finally "getting it" and playing to his strengths consistently.

So its everyone elses fault ?

the underlying themes of these playoffs is that your best players have to play like it and then everything else trickles down. The fact is that Al,Josh,JJ, does not work how many times have you seen this year where all 3 have been on the top of there games at the same time ?

In that last game against the Bulls Deng,Boozer,Noah,Rose all came to play in the same game and we got sent home ....when was the last time we could say the same about our trio.

They very rarely play well together if JJ and AL has it going well then Josh is vanishes and if Josh and AL have it going well JJ disappears.

You seriously be considered a contender for anything when you have that sort of inconsistency at the top of your lineup.

Dal - Dirk has been ridiculous

OKC - Westbrook and Durant

Bulls - Rose

Mia - Lebron,Wade,Bosh

Can you honestly say that in the playoffs that our trio has played with anywhere near the consistency of any of those players . ? Trying to improve the players around will not make them more consistent.

The bottomline is that our team has gone as far as it can go with these three players being our best 3 players .

I would think big .

Joe AND Josh

for

Bynum ,Artest ,and Walton

[HawksFan87]

lol that trade is horrible, Walton ? really? dude ..

Edited May 17, 2011 by HawksFan87

[HawkItus]

So its everyone elses fault ?

the underlying themes of these playoffs is that your best players have to play like it and then everything else trickles down. The fact is that Al,Josh,JJ, does not work how many times have you seen this year where all 3 have been on the top of there games at the same time ?

In that last game against the Bulls Deng,Boozer,Noah,Rose all came to play in the same game and we got sent home ....when was the last time we could say the same about our trio.

They very rarely play well together if JJ and AL has it going well then Josh is vanishes and if Josh and AL have it going well JJ disappears.

You seriously be considered a contender for anything when you have that sort of inconsistency at the top of your lineup.

Dal - Dirk has been ridiculous

OKC - Westbrook and Durant

Bulls - Rose

Mia - Lebron,Wade,Bosh

Can you honestly say that in the playoffs that our trio has played with anywhere near the consistency of any of those players . ? Trying to improve the players around will not make them more consistent.

The bottomline is that our team has gone as far as it can go with these three players being our best 3 players .

I would think big .

Joe AND Josh

for

Bynum ,Artest ,and Walton

How is that thinking BIG? Bynum is not carrying a team, nor is Artest. To me big is going after a player that can carry a game for you.